2020 Presidential Election Thread: IT'S THE FINAL (vote) COUNTDOWN! [update pg 61: Joe Biden elected 46th POTUS]

[Clyde_Style]

Candace Owens is going to have to find a new grift.

the sad thing is, even if trump loses they'll have plenty of fans. they will continue to confirm whatever they do for whoever wants to hear it.

but word. trump losing would be a significant blow for them. it will be interesting to watch their moves... or not.

They’ll go full Ben Shapiro giving us deep insights into the lyrics of WAP or they’ll go full QAnon. The problem for the Republican Party is that one, Trump is definitely going to jail and two without him at the top of the ticket a lot of these weirdos will just fall deeper into their rabbit hole and will stop showing up to actually vote

Probably true. Of that 15-25% of the population that completely lost their minds some will go derper into their conspiratorial fantasy worlds. At some point their perverse logic probably will start to indict the GOP as being in on the derp state too. Perhaps this is a core reason, and not yet anticipated way, the GOP loses its voting strength in the future.

And I think this is also key to the GOP turnout this time. It is very Trumpy. They will not reproduce that again unless another MAGA figurehead runs for the GOP nomination again and wins. So I think the voting strength of the GOP this election will be hard to reproduce again.

[Pointgod]

I've never lived in the South, nor midwest... what messaging do you think breaks through? It seemed like there was a Sanders/Trump crossover for those that were protectionist but not necessarily racists. I also think M4A could be packaged well more universally. But I think it's a fundamentally different message than the one that the Dems currently have that gets it done. I.e. it's not the hat, it's the bull. And I don't want the authoritarianism or supremacy/xenophobia messaging to seep in either.

I’m from the south. Obama won Florida twice. Ohio twice. North Carolina. Iowa. Indiana. There are some states that have been given up on that can actually be in play. But message has to be one that inspires hope and change but it has to be more than just platitudes because people are sick of that too. Get that yes we can mindset back except this time actually do it when you get a chance. Let’s get a black led multi racial movement that actually fights for the working class. Can’t just be one or the other

While I'm dispirited by the amount of support the GOP still has, I do think a New Black South could set this country straight once and for all if the will to organize is there. So there's reason for hope and perhaps optimism.

That said, the level of bigotry that Trump channeled was hopefully a one-off, but I think it was also a very delicate situation competition wise and I do think Biden punched the correct buttons to ensure no loss of support while pulling enough of Trump's support to make a big difference.

I think Biden will be seen historically as a needed pivot point that can and should serve as the reset point towards reformulating the Democratic party. People say he was not their candidate, but I think in hindsight I believe many of us will being to acknowledge he may have been the correct candidate to beat Trump and there is no way to discount the value of that.

I remember when people were **** on the black people of South Carolina and Jim Clyburn for backing Biden. They didn’t support Biden necessarily because they loved everything about him, but they knew they know America and there’s no way in hell that they’d put their futures on a large number of white people electing a Democratic Socialist or woman. Joe Biden was just a game manager that could strike a good balance. I always believed Biden could have beat Trump in 2016. Like Rachel Bitcofer’s tweet thread pointed out, resentment is a hell of a thing.

[Clyde_Style]

Cults don’t do very good when dear leader is gone. Unfortunately even after he’s not the president he is still going to be around for a while giving marching orders to his people. I swear he’s running again in 2024 or his son will. The GOP have no choice. He is the party.

very interesting scenario of trump running in 2024. i'd think ivanka would be the play over any of his sons. i always figured the plan was 2 donald terms and some kind of transition to ivanka.

I wonder if the Republican party will support him again. I'd imagine a number of them are not on board with his claiming vote fraud.

Ivanka and Don Jr. are in serious trouble. Eric too. Don't even get me started with Jared, but he is probably unelectable anyway.

All 3 of Trump's kids are likely to be prosecuted in the next year or two. Ivanka had an active money laundering role in the Trump Organization. Don Jr. is already going down for charity fraud.

I won't rev up my corrupt analysis machine right now, but trust me there is so much bad news for this family around the corner. It's not just their father who is in for a world of pain.

A felon can hold a seat in congress or even run for president, but it doesn't help their chances

So I'd wait and see what punishment awaits these people and how long they have to serve time if sent away.

But I also think the value of Trump's name will fade way faster than some estimate. By 2024 it will no longer be a valuable association and will be relegated to the remaining cultists, but not the foundation for a national run again

[Pointgod]

the sad thing is, even if trump loses they'll have plenty of fans. they will continue to confirm whatever they do for whoever wants to hear it.

but word. trump losing would be a significant blow for them. it will be interesting to watch their moves... or not.

They’ll go full Ben Shapiro giving us deep insights into the lyrics of WAP or they’ll go full QAnon. The problem for the Republican Party is that one, Trump is definitely going to jail and two without him at the top of the ticket a lot of these weirdos will just fall deeper into their rabbit hole and will stop showing up to actually vote

Probably true. Of that 15-25% of the population that completely lost their minds some will go derper into their conspiratorial fantasy worlds. At some point their perverse logic probably will start to indict the GOP as being in on the derp state too. Perhaps this is a core reason, and not yet anticipated way, the GOP loses its voting strength in the future.

And I think this is also key to the GOP turnout this time. It is very Trumpy. They will not reproduce that again unless another MAGA figurehead runs for the GOP nomination again and wins. So I think the voting strength of the GOP this election will be hard to reproduce again.

The Republican Party did this to themselves. They had an out with impeachment. This is the future of the QOP

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Clyde_Style]

She makes some good points, but I don't understand why these are "either/or" discussions and not "yes and" discussions.

Dems had enough money to do it all this cycle.

I don't think there's any reason for progressives to "yes and" attempts to blame them for losses by Blue Dogs and centrists who openly ran against progressive ideals.

If there's some exit polling or something that suggests voters refused to support down ballot due to worries about Socialism, I've yet to see it. I think a more likely scenario is the fact that Biden won in some places where congressional candidates underperformed him suggests that making this race so singularly focused on Trump allowed a lot of Republican enablers in Congress to avoid being directly tied to the failure...but that's also speculation I admit.

It was clear that voters on both side of the presidential choice didn't always vote the rest of the down ticket in a uniform fashion. This is definitely the case where Biden did pick up some protest votes against Trump by people who still voted for their GOP Senate candidates.

[Clyde_Style]

Trump should not be allowed to stay in office until January.

Would this work for now?

[EricAnderson]

the sad thing is, even if trump loses they'll have plenty of fans. they will continue to confirm whatever they do for whoever wants to hear it.

but word. trump losing would be a significant blow for them. it will be interesting to watch their moves... or not.

They’ll go full Ben Shapiro giving us deep insights into the lyrics of WAP or they’ll go full QAnon. The problem for the Republican Party is that one, Trump is definitely going to jail and two without him at the top of the ticket a lot of these weirdos will just fall deeper into their rabbit hole and will stop showing up to actually vote

Probably true. Of that 15-25% of the population that completely lost their minds some will go derper into their conspiratorial fantasy worlds. At some point their perverse logic probably will start to indict the GOP as being in on the derp state too. Perhaps this is a core reason, and not yet anticipated way, the GOP loses its voting strength in the future.

And I think this is also key to the GOP turnout this time. It is very Trumpy. They will not reproduce that again unless another MAGA figurehead runs for the GOP nomination again and wins. So I think the voting strength of the GOP this election will be hard to reproduce again.

That’s is true but it can’t make the democrats complacent because a big number of votes for Biden was because of how hated Trump was so it evens out his cult popularity.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

[Clyde_Style]

I was speaking from the other way around. There was no reason for the Blue Dogs and the Centrists to not implement the process strategy she laid out, even if they don't want to take on openly progressive rhetoric.

Oh my bad on misreading that. That's a really good point. I think the Blue Dogs and Centrists best argument against a broader shift to progressivism is that they could adjust their strategies and targeting without shifting their principles heavily. Things like door knocking, smart use of digital media and outreach to untapped voters are right there for them to try. I honestly don't have an answer for why they don't.

Seems some of the Dem strategists may be overly reliant on digital strategies. It does look like future successes in presidential elections will require old school grassroots groundwork, especially in the South. It could transform states like MS and LA to create a blue band with GA. The DNC-style is feeling too ivory tower and disconnected from that ground game. The national organization is going to have to get synchronized with local precinct level organizers and include them and take counsel from them too.

[Pointgod]

She makes some good points, but I don't understand why these are "either/or" discussions and not "yes and" discussions.

Dems had enough money to do it all this cycle.

I don't think there's any reason for progressives to "yes and" attempts to blame them for losses by Blue Dogs and centrists who openly ran against progressive ideals.

If there's some exit polling or something that suggests voters refused to support down ballot due to worries about Socialism, I've yet to see it. I think a more likely scenario is the fact that Biden won in some places where congressional candidates underperformed him suggests that making this race so singularly focused on Trump allowed a lot of Republican enablers in Congress to avoid being directly tied to the failure...but that's also speculation I admit.

It was clear that voters on both side of the presidential choice didn't always vote the rest of the down ticket in a uniform fashion. This is definitely the case where Biden did pick up some protest votes against Trump by people who still voted for their GOP Senate candidates.

I’m so **** pissed off that the Republicans and Congress and Senate escaped from this. The fact that they didn’t get decimated is an absolute win for them. They’re like the evil side kick to the main villain that scurries away like a cockroach at the end of the movie. Joe Biden won Maine by 10% and Susan Collins won by 10% WTF. They are traitors to the country, protected a proto Facist and are letting people suffer. And they got rewarded for it. The country is so backwards.

Im on this Kobe energy until Republicans become a permanent minority party. The focus on 2022 needs to start now

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Oh that’s the line for Bannon’s lawyer? That?!

[Clyde_Style]

This is been demonstrated by polling year after year ever since Sanders brought it to the public conversation more than 4 years ago as strongly as he did, this isn't just one particular election poll about partisan candidates that you can hand wave away. It's shown repeatedly no matter how badly the question is framed.

Your shuck and jive 'we can't believe polls anymore' argument is as empty as the excuses against the policies people want. If the establishment dems continue to do nothing for the people get ready for Don Jr in 2024 because establishment dems really do suck. Don't let this one race fool you and it actually should serve notice how they need to change.

If thats the case then why arent we talking about president Bernie right now? We keep hearing how all these policies are popular yet the obvious people to implement said policies dont get voted in. One can only blame the media and the establishment so much before one starts looking elsewhere. These last two presidential elections are proof that polling procedures have to be looked at. Something is seriously off, if progressive policies are popular yet the conservatives who call such policies evil socialist policies continue to be elected.

Because it’s not the case no matter how much they choose to tell themselves it is. Policy does not matter, anyone who believe that is missing the forest through the trees. I’m going to wait until the final results because I think generally the polls are going to be fairly accurate but there’s glaring hole in polling methodology that can’t accurately account for Trump voters or Trump curious

I'll keep interjecting this point for a while longer, because I think it keeps getting overlooked. This election was an anomaly because of the ferocity of the cult. Remove Trump and there is loss of some of that force on the GOP's side. This rabid lunatic (no longer so) fringe changed the dynamics of this election, yet 7M still outvoted that bloc + the rest of the GOP voters.

So all of the tabulations and future game planning are complicated by this Trumpism element which will be hard to anticipate going forwards. Will they stay activated or will they go back into their caves? This factor really skewed this election and made unique in ways that are hard to game plan for.

[Clyde_Style]

Trump should not be allowed to stay in office until January.

I cant see him sticking around. After he pardons everyone and burns everything on the way out, I think he steps down and Pence will give him a blanket pardon (not applicable for state crimes)

Trump is going to minimize his exposure. He will not be president on January 20th.

Pence will be handing off the baton to Biden.

[Oscirus]

Wow, you are just going down the centrist dialog tree right out of their script. Bernie was on his way to being the nom if the establishment dems didn't pull them most unprecedented primary maneuver. Days before the SC primary every centrist candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden with the only one remaining was Warren to split some of the progressive vote.

This gave Biden a win and momentum into super tuesday which combined with negative media spin and the dems ability to suppress the vote in their own primaries that they have been using for decades to keep progressive out it worked in keeping Bernie, an Independent, from winning. Showing how much harder centrists fight left than they do right because they rarely fight that hard against the GOP.

Bernie was too soon, progressives hadn't gained enough of a coalition yet so his meteoric run showed the popularity of the policies but without the base in the party to get the support from it. Since then many more progressives, Justice Democrats, have won seats in federal offices and even in state and local so maybe in another few years the block they are building will be strong enough to make the establishment listen but right now they are still fighting them.

Republicans call everyone who isn't them socialists and communists but don't let them create the narrative. The GOP will not support a dem no matter what....Obamacare was actually Romneycare that was devised by a conservative think tank. They even hate their own ideas if it's a dem who is doing it so don't let them make your choices for you.

Their rabid base won't support dems either so don't try to change policy or rhetoric for them. Do what is necessary to get those policies that help people and the people will eventually recognize that and support it. If the establishment dems do nothing to help people then it shouldn't surprise you when they vote for someone else and that's how Trump got elected.

I don't think we should be afraid of the socialist word and run from it because then the story becomes about the label and the dems are constantly fighting the perception of it taking all the focus off the policies and onto a bullisht word. Even if one chooses not to use the word they need to explain the policies simply in bite sized ways to appeal to low info voters which most are.

As an example they need to say things about the public option that it gives Americans more choice free from the profit seeking corporate executive death panels. When the response comes back 'government controlled health care bad' the reply should be it's the same private health care providers not government run, just free from insurance companies blocking your choice of treatment and doctors.

The GOP will still try to obscure the truth but the message needs to be simple and repetitive to overcome it. Of course, if centrists don't even want to fight for those policies then it won't happen and they will lose any of the power they have gained this election cycle because people don't want excuses, they need help in a system that is constantly kicking them down.

There needs to be a sense of ruthlessness in governing the dems have to do to get some of these things going as soon as possible and publicly call out those who are standing in the way of them getting done. So either they will bend and give in to public scrutiny or they could be in jeopardy of losing their seat in 2022. It has to be an imperative to get things done not just make excuses.

When people start to see and feel the positive effects of those policies they will trust the next step and next policy that is offered up and more strongly support those who support the policies. The GOP will frame it as they will always do but at that point their message will have lost it teeth. It starts with a few small policy steps that can be made relatively quickly.

If you are worried about the word socialist and spend all your time fighting that they have won already. You let them frame the debate the label and it isn't on policy to help people. The policy shouldn't be long wonky explanations, it needs to be short and concise the way Bernie was framing it. He was just too soon and to be honest, not telegenic enough, the next wave of progressives should solve the latter if they can master the former of his traits.

Conspiracy theories are just that. Fact is Biden was a dead man walking till south carolina. Drop outs didnt really start happening until after that race when it became apparent that he had a virtual monopoly on the minority vote. Did people make deals to mae the drop outs easier, Im sure they did. Did the dems **** bernie against hillary? Sure, not this time. People came into this race with their eyes wide open and Bernie had everything going for him this time he just lost because like most things dems do, the support for his policies were overstated.

My issue isnt with the socialist term, it's with the fact that they're still getting elected at a relatively great clip despite the fact that they keep attacking progressive policies. If the policies are so popular, that shouldn't be the case. I honestly dont know how the dems are gonna turn this around, but they're gonna have to figure it out. They have 2 years to do so, and are on the clock as we speak.

I want new leadership, but we're obviously gonna be stuck with the same old ****, because dems as a whole never learn.

Conspiracy? It's fact! That's exactly what happened! Obama called them all and they all dropped out all at once and went on stage with Biden together. The democratic party has been called out for years about their manipulation of the primary process. But you know what, you're right, it's conspiracy, the DNC conspired to do it.

I'm not fooled by your trollish side stepping You're disingenuous or a fool but either way the centrist establishment dems are the reason for Trump and will bring another Trump if they keep doing the same garbage ass job that they have been doing. Blaming progressive is just weak ass attempts at deflecting blame from their own terrible behavior.

Oh and centrists lost seats this election while progressives gained. The dems win not because they have good policy it's because they are seen as the only party option if you don't want to align yourself with the GOP and their regressive policies. The dems suck and have been ineffective at helping people for decades but they do great for corporations which is why they get elected.

**** outta here with your clown act.

Either you got proof which if you do post your evidence or you're some bernie fanboy spouting youtube conspiracies cuz your boy lost. Cuz Im not in the mood to read fanfiction. I love how you clowns conveniently ignore the fact that most of Obamas people were working for Warren during the primary. But that would be inconvenient to your narrative.

If the progressive agenda is oh so popular then they should primary everybody in and out of office and show the world thats the right way to gain votes. But that aint happen is it? But yes congrats on picking up a couple of seats, in the year 3000 that might actually help the party.

[Oscirus]

LOL at all these news stations pissing their pants at the idea of making daddy trump mad

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

OMG

[Clyde_Style]

Don't have time to respond inline but I appreciate the inline responses to my previous comments about post-election debriefing.

I do think Biden ran an excellent campaign for beating Trump but wanted to hammer home that courting the White Moderate as a bloc is likely either an exercise in futility or a compromise of values. Keep building from the urban and POC base and the younger vote will start to age with the party. Additionally, I think the potential financial windfall of M4A has not been well fleshed out. The USA has the highest per capita health care costs of any developed nation and it's precisely because we've employed this piecemeal/go it alone strategy. Simply put, bulk rates are cheaper and have less overhead and you see it reflected in per capita costs. That really shouldn't be a hard point to hammer home but it also isn't universally embraced on the D platform yet. What might be lost in taxes would be made up manifold in wages as employers would no longer shoulder that burden.

The same way that Obamacare has all of a sudden become wildly more popular... M4A would have even greater support if people could get past the supposed price tag.

I agree on both point.

M4A is really in need of a clean messaging campaign. Market it right and consistently and it will win over voters because it simply is hard to deny how much it benefits each person individually once you communicate it effectively.

The Black Vote Won This. It did take a white supremacist dog whistling racist cop enabling POS to energize that response, but I'm hopeful this means nobody will let their guard down again as we just came as close as possible to the annihilation of our civil rights which would have been even worse for black people than anyone else.

So Urban, POC is the way to go. NOW. Get this locked in and build a super marjority in upcoming elections and then reform the electoral college to ensure those votes really count even more in the future.

One thing I think really matters about Biden winning is election reform as a whole. I know a lot of this has to happen on a state level, but we just had an executive branch that refused to use money set aside for safe elections while rebuffing intelligence about foreign actors trying to hack our election (machines too, not just our minds).

So I want the next four years to be about removing every voter suppression tool the GOP has and for locking out the bad apples from sovereign states tampering with our elections.

Hoping for more reform of bad gerrymandering districts on a state level too wherever that can be accomplished.

[Clyde_Style]

Saying policy doesn't matter is tantamount to expressing a desire to uphold the status quo by refusing to discuss any improvements which is still technically a policy

Yes. Policy is everything.

Policy matters to all of us, but I think the larger point being argued is that policy doesn't have a chance if you don't master the identity aspect of political messaging.

Another way of phrasing that is not every voter you're trying to reach studies the nuances of policies that may affect them, but you can deliver the payload inside the trojan horse of identity politics. It may sound sleazy, but that's the reality of being competitive and the Dem Party still has to get a handle on what they are offering on the level of identity, not just policy.

[Clyde_Style]

I'll admit, that was a little dramatic of me. More of a sizzle/steak situation.

Yeah I kinda figured what you meant. Anyway I'm too tired to get started on all this. They haven't even officially called the election yet

I'm just getting excited again. Yelling at Rs is hard for me because they're just so far on the spectrum from me it's hard to even imagine making inroads. Yelling at Ds is so much easier for me

[Oscirus]

Don't have time to respond inline but I appreciate the inline responses to my previous comments about post-election debriefing.

I do think Biden ran an excellent campaign for beating Trump but wanted to hammer home that courting the White Moderate as a bloc is likely either an exercise in futility or a compromise of values. Keep building from the urban and POC base and the younger vote will start to age with the party. Additionally, I think the potential financial windfall of M4A has not been well fleshed out. The USA has the highest per capita health care costs of any developed nation and it's precisely because we've employed this piecemeal/go it alone strategy. Simply put, bulk rates are cheaper and have less overhead and you see it reflected in per capita costs. That really shouldn't be a hard point to hammer home but it also isn't universally embraced on the D platform yet. What might be lost in taxes would be made up manifold in wages as employers would no longer shoulder that burden.

The same way that Obamacare has all of a sudden become wildly more popular... M4A would have even greater support if people could get past the supposed price tag.

I agree on both point.

M4A is really in need of a clean messaging campaign. Market it right and consistently and it will win over voters because it simply is hard to deny how much it benefits each person individually once you communicate it effectively.

The Black Vote Won This. It did take a white supremacist dog whistling racist cop enabling POS to energize that response, but I'm hopeful this means nobody will let their guard down again as we just came as close as possible to the annihilation of our civil rights which would have been even worse for black people than anyone else.

So Urban, POC is the way to go. NOW. Get this locked in and build a super marjority in upcoming elections and then reform the electoral college to ensure those votes really count even more in the future.

One thing I think really matters about Biden winning is election reform as a whole. I know a lot of this has to happen on a state level, but we just had an executive branch that refused to use money set aside for safe elections while rebuffing intelligence about foreign actors trying to hack our election (machines too, not just our minds).

So I want the next four years to be about removing every voter suppression tool the GOP has and for locking out the bad apples from sovereign states tampering with our elections.

Hoping for more reform of bad gerrymandering districts on a state level too wherever that can be accomplished.

Trump and co put alot of **** out there to be caught, not sure Biden will be able to catch all of it. The more important thing is getting an identity thats inclusive to all not just the old time democrats with a few concessions to the newer ones.