College Basketball/March Madness Thread

[Flaming Mo]

It's true, but thats why guys like Izzo, Matta, Self, Donovan, Ryan, Stevens, Wright and so on are held in higher regard. They don't always get the most talented guys, but they do a good job in what they have.

Look at guys like Tubby Smith and Billy Gillispie and the slow decline of Kentucky. Overnight they become a perennial basketball place. To me Roy Williams did a great job at Kansas, made a lot with little over the years. However he did indeed bring back UNC, it was quickly fading and losing out to Duke.

I would scratch Matta of that list, even with his Xavier past...

[Manhattan Project]

I would scratch Matta of that list, even with his Xavier past...

Yeah was going more for the Xavier/Butler background even though he has done good with Ohio State.

[Marty McFly]

i don't think I've watched one game. so, where are we now? sweet 16?

[hobojoe2131]

I know this is going to get me some slack from Mo, but Izzo on a regular basis gets a number of great recruits. Now that's not saying he's not a great coach. I think he does a very good job (even though he whines a bit too much for my liking).

Mich State recruits:
09: 2 Top 100s
10: 3 top 100s including a McD's All American
11: 5 star recruit Brandon Dawson.

He gets a lot of high ranking guys.

He's also been in ESPN's top 25 recruiting classes in 4 of the past 5 years.

[Flaming Mo]

I know this is going to get me some slack from Mo, but Izzo on a regular basis gets a number of great recruits. Now that's not saying he's not a great coach. I think he does a very good job (even though he whines a bit too much for my liking).

Mich State recruits:
09: 2 Top 100s
10: 3 top 100s including a McD's All American
11: 5 star recruit Brandon Dawson.

He gets a lot of high ranking guys.

He's also been in ESPN's top 25 recruiting classes in 4 of the past 5 years.

Oh you bet...

Lately he has been very good on the recruiting trail. One thing to note though is that he usually doesnt recruit nationally as the families of the players are a big part of his program and his philosophy and he wants his guys to be closer to home. One thing though is that none of the players he recruits are considered one and done players which is another base of his philosophy. This also means he recruits a few more projects (Nix overweight, Green was a physical mess when he came to MSU, Kearney in 2011 is very thin as was Payne last year) than the higher end programs as he usually doesnt need them to produce right from the bat. Thank god Dawson seems like the real deal because next year's team will be dependant on his start and Appling's and Payne's development for the most part.

[hobojoe2131]

I know this is going to get me some slack from Mo, but Izzo on a regular basis gets a number of great recruits. Now that's not saying he's not a great coach. I think he does a very good job (even though he whines a bit too much for my liking).

Mich State recruits:
09: 2 Top 100s
10: 3 top 100s including a McD's All American
11: 5 star recruit Brandon Dawson.

He gets a lot of high ranking guys.

He's also been in ESPN's top 25 recruiting classes in 4 of the past 5 years.

Oh you bet...

Lately he has been very good on the recruiting trail. One thing to note though is that he usually doesnt recruit nationally as the families of the players are a big part of his program and his philosophy and he wants his guys to be closer to home. One thing though is that none of the players he recruits are considered one and done players which is another base of his philosophy. This also means he recruits a few more projects (Nix overweight, Green was a physical mess when he came to MSU, Kearney in 2011 is very thin as was Payne last year) than the higher end programs as he usually doesnt need them to produce right from the bat. Thank god Dawson seems like the real deal because next year's team will be dependant on his start and Appling's and Payne's development for the most part.

Yea it's true. He also does a ton of recruiting in the Midwest, and mostly Michigan. He doesn't stray too far very often. I wish Wisconsin had more basketball talent lol.

[Flaming Mo]

Yea it's true. He also does a ton of recruiting in the Midwest, and mostly Michigan. He doesn't stray too far very often. I wish Wisconsin had more basketball talent lol.

Well its hard, I would say people think about Wisconsin more like a football school while Izzo has turned the Spartans into a basketball powerhouse. And all those Final Fours help tremendously in recruiting aswell. His stat about every four year guy playing in atleast one FF with Izzo is just insane.

Maybe this year is your turn with the Badgers! They got the perfect bracket to make it without any heavyweights with whom they wouldnt match up well like Kansas, UNC, Duke or even Arizona. I think they can really do it this year...

[Smoke24]

Can we also talk about how much the Big East sucks? 11 teams and only 2 are left? Wow. Smh

The Big East Team that I'm rooting for is still in...Kemba won't let his team lose without a fight, unlike other Big East Teams...

[hobojoe2131]

Yea it's true. He also does a ton of recruiting in the Midwest, and mostly Michigan. He doesn't stray too far very often. I wish Wisconsin had more basketball talent lol.

Well its hard, I would say people think about Wisconsin more like a football school while Izzo has turned the Spartans into a basketball powerhouse. And all those Final Fours help tremendously in recruiting aswell. His stat about every four year guy playing in atleast one FF with Izzo is just insane.

Maybe this year is your turn with the Badgers! They got the perfect bracket to make it without any heavyweights with whom they wouldnt match up well like Kansas, UNC, Duke or even Arizona. I think they can really do it this year...

I hope. I'm not getting my hopes up because Butler is a tough matchup for us. They can shoot the hell out of the ball and they have size.

You're right though. Wisconsin and MSU have both made the tourney the past 13 years (which in itself is remarkable, and a testament to how great Bo Ryan and Izzo are), but MSU is considered half a notch or a notch above because of their ability to advance in the tourney.

Btw we beat both Duke and Arizona last year Just saying.

[hobojoe2131]

Can we also talk about how much the Big East sucks? 11 teams and only 2 are left? Wow. Smh

The Big East Team that I'm rooting for is still in...Kemba won't let his team lose without a fight, unlike other Big East Teams...

I think SDSU is going to be a really tough matchup. They have the length and athleticism to match up with Kemba and co.

[Flaming Mo]

I hope. I'm not getting my hopes up because Butler is a tough matchup for us. They can shoot the hell out of the ball and they have size.

You're right though. Wisconsin and MSU have both made the tourney the past 13 years (which in itself is remarkable, and a testament to how great Bo Ryan and Izzo are), but MSU is considered half a notch or a notch above because of their ability to advance in the tourney.

Btw we beat both Duke and Arizona last year Just saying.

I think you guys will be ok vs Butler. They wont run you out of the gym and your defense should stiffle them. And in a close game, Jordan Taylor has the ability to make the winning play at the end as he is the best player on the court. We'll see... good luck anyways even though I dont really like Wisconsin!

[freeturkcan]

roy williams has a bunch of final fours, 30 win seasons, and two titles

the guy is an all time great coach, even if his gameplanning and in-game adjustments are subpar

talent acquisition is by far the most important part of his job, and the idea that you can minimize that by pointing out where he's coached is shortsighted. most of the very elite recruits who he allegedly "picks and chooses" from happen to also be coveted by every other powerhouse program out there. it takes real effort to convince these guys not to go to kentucky, duke, whoever and go to unc or kansas, that they are bluebloods is beside the point....there are other bluebloods going hard after these guys too.

[Aaazy]

butler got lucky TWiCE!!!!!

Not gonna happen again

[hobojoe2131]

roy williams has a bunch of final fours, 30 win seasons, and two titles

the guy is an all time great coach, even if his gameplanning and in-game adjustments are subpar

talent acquisition is by far the most important part of his job, and the idea that you can minimize that by pointing out where he's coached is shortsighted. most of the very elite recruits who he allegedly "picks and chooses" from happen to also be coveted by every other powerhouse program out there. it takes real effort to convince these guys not to go to kentucky, duke, whoever and go to unc or kansas, that they are bluebloods is beside the point....there are other bluebloods going hard after these guys too.

No one is saying that he isn't a great recruiter. He just is a far superior recruiter versus coach.

[freeturkcan]

a very high percentage of a COLLEGE coach's job is recruiting (this is not just about getting the top guys to come play for you either)

and i saw the oft articulated argument that he only loads up on those recruits due to being at unc and kansas earlier. it's not that simple

[hobojoe2131]

a very high percentage of a COLLEGE coach's job is recruiting (this is not just about getting the top guys to come play for you either)

and i saw the oft articulated argument that he only loads up on those recruits due to being at unc and kansas earlier. it's not that simple

Once again, no one is debating that first point with you.

For the second part, working at a blueblood program gives him a boost and the backing of years of success that he wouldn't have if he were coaching at most other schools. He would not have gotten Harrison Barnes if he was coaching at Rutgers, for example.

[freeturkcan]

of course not. i'm just saying it's not as simple as the program recruiting itself

[Jmonty580]

a very high percentage of a COLLEGE coach's job is recruiting (this is not just about getting the top guys to come play for you either)

and i saw the oft articulated argument that he only loads up on those recruits due to being at unc and kansas earlier. it's not that simple

Once again, no one is debating that first point with you.

For the second part, working at a blueblood program gives him a boost and the backing of years of success that he wouldn't have if he were coaching at most other schools. He would not have gotten Harrison Barnes if he was coaching at Rutgers, for example.

Good coaches build names for schools. Uconn was nothing be Jim Calhoun got there. He recruited and got the best players that would come to Uconn and he coached them and made them better, and helped them win at the college level. Winning breeds more winning, expecations are set higher and recognition is given. Uconn isnt a UNC as far as history is concerned, but they can get some recruits to listen easier than lets say a rutgers. It all starts somewhere though. Once that rep is built you gotta keep it up too. Uconn made the final four two years ago? A year at the NIT, and now they are back in the tournament and making a run, just like UNC did. Had Uconn spent the next 3 or 4 season in the NIT, that rep they've built goes away and they have similar school name recruiting power of a rutgers.

[hobojoe2131]

a very high percentage of a COLLEGE coach's job is recruiting (this is not just about getting the top guys to come play for you either)

and i saw the oft articulated argument that he only loads up on those recruits due to being at unc and kansas earlier. it's not that simple

Once again, no one is debating that first point with you.

For the second part, working at a blueblood program gives him a boost and the backing of years of success that he wouldn't have if he were coaching at most other schools. He would not have gotten Harrison Barnes if he was coaching at Rutgers, for example.

Good coaches build names for schools. Uconn was nothing be Jim Calhoun got there. He recruited and got the best players that would come to Uconn and he coached them and made them better, and helped them win at the college level. Winning breeds more winning, expecations are set higher and recognition is given. Uconn isnt a UNC as far as history is concerned, but they can get some recruits to listen easier than lets say a rutgers. It all starts somewhere though. Once that rep is built you gotta keep it up too. Uconn made the final four two years ago? A year at the NIT, and now they are back in the tournament and making a run, just like UNC did. Had Uconn spent the next 3 or 4 season in the NIT, that rep they've built goes away and they have similar school name recruiting power of a rutgers.

It helps when Calhoun has no problem committing recruiting violations

No, but seriously. You're going to tell me that Roy hasn't benefitted from coaching at Kansas and UNC in terms of recruiting? Guys dream of playing there, and Roy is a good recruiter so he makes it happen. These schools were good before he got there, and they'll be good when he leaves.

[hobojoe2131]

of course not. i'm just saying it's not as simple as the program recruiting itself

I know. But you can be a fantastic recruiter and coach for Morehead St., and you won't get top notch guys. It's a 2 way street.