2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[HEZI]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

[malik959]

I'd say we just go ahead and trade with Portland in a pick swap - Randle/ 27th for Ariza/Hood/Little/#14, Than we can get Haliburton at 6th and P. Williams at 14.

[HEZI]

DSJ averaged 6.2 assist per game in college. He was also more efficient as a scorer than Lamelo

[mpharris36]

The 6'7" playmaker is also extremely inefficient that shoots more and scores less than the scoring PG we're talking about but that is your preference

that is like 99% of peoples preference. I don't think I am going out on a limb for having LaMelo Ball rated higher than Cole Anthony.

I'm not talking to that 99% of people right now, am I? Currently I'm just talking with you individually. Don't care about their opinion at this moment unless they want to jump into the discussion but I am interested in what you have to say.

Earlier you were talking about efficiency and percentages, remember the .5% in shooting and how it makes a huge difference over the course of a season. Lets get back to that. So, Lamelo's shooting numbers, yikes! Even Lamelo's playmaking, he averaged 6.8 assists while Cole averaged 4. The way his playmaking is hyped up you would think the dude was out there averaging double digits in assists, like Trae Young and Ja Morant did, yet he wasn't. Lonzo Ball averaged more assists in college than Lamelo has and he was a much more efficient scorer. Thoughts?

My thoughts are the 6.8 assists is a number. If you watch his tape and the passes he makes he has special vision.

The shooting absolutely is a concern. The shot is awkward and some of them are forces but in a more structed NBA offense I believe that is easily correctable. He has nice touch around the rim and was a + in C&S situations when his feet are set so there are reason to buy he can have at least decent effeciency.

3 assists more is a significant number. Your talking anywhere from 6-9 extra pts for a team. And even if you go to there per 36 Lamelo is nearly doubling Cole's assist numbers with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio while Cole has an atrocious 1:1 assist to turnover ration for a guy that has the ball in his hands a lot.

I think you are vastly underestimating his playmaking ability if you are just looking at a 6.8 number.

Watch on YouTube

So yes there is some projectability going on here. But combine his excellent length and size for the position, he advanced handle, and great vision.

Also to have a teammate speak so highly (aaron brooks who was in the NBA) of him in terms of his work ethic and want to be great I think he should work on his weaknesses.

“I know he has a lot more improving to do. I know that he’s going to be good because he wants to be good. He wants to be great. I’m just excited for him to get started and hopefully, he lands into a good place that helps him development.”

[robillionaire]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

per 36
lonzo 7.8
lamelo 7.9
trae 8.9
ja 9.9

turnovers
lonzo 2.5
lamelo 2.9
trae 5.3
ja 5.1

ratio
lonzo 3.04
lamelo 2.72
trae 1.67
ja 1.92

lamelo did it against tougher competition at a younger age, also, all those guys are good players who I wish we drafted

aside from the numbers he is just obviously good at passing

[mpharris36]

Watch on YouTube

the kid was playing with all +35 year old bigs at the end of there careers. Now imagine an elite rim running that plays above the rim like Mitch in the P&R with him...

[mpharris36]

I'd say we just go ahead and trade with Portland in a pick swap - Randle/ 27th for Ariza/Hood/Little/#14, Than we can get Haliburton at 6th and P. Williams at 14.

Randle aint got that kind of value bro

[RHODEY]

Understood if you want someone with a projected higher ceiling hen you have to make do. Since none of the others are ready made (but supposedly have higher ceilings) you have to look at projected improvement. Isthe player improving or regressing?If they are improving what is that the of improvement - age and experience play into this. Level of competition, plays into this as well. Lamelo could definitely improve, Hayes showed incredible improvement during Eurocup. Cole.....

So really we just have to leave it to the scouts to do what they do best. Or we could just play it "safe" with Haliburton. I put safe in quotes because Haliburton could surprise us.

Where has Melo improved? Did his shooting percentage increase? Is he more athletic? Does he no longer take outrageous 3pt shots? The only improvement that anyone has seen is his height. But I do agree with you on Haliburton, I feel that he is our safest bet and has shown that improvement from year one.

Hayes showed improvement, Melo can improve his shooting. Dont think Cole can turn into a playmaker.

[HEZI]

that is like 99% of peoples preference. I don't think I am going out on a limb for having LaMelo Ball rated higher than Cole Anthony.

I'm not talking to that 99% of people right now, am I? Currently I'm just talking with you individually. Don't care about their opinion at this moment unless they want to jump into the discussion but I am interested in what you have to say.

Earlier you were talking about efficiency and percentages, remember the .5% in shooting and how it makes a huge difference over the course of a season. Lets get back to that. So, Lamelo's shooting numbers, yikes! Even Lamelo's playmaking, he averaged 6.8 assists while Cole averaged 4. The way his playmaking is hyped up you would think the dude was out there averaging double digits in assists, like Trae Young and Ja Morant did, yet he wasn't. Lonzo Ball averaged more assists in college than Lamelo has and he was a much more efficient scorer. Thoughts?

My thoughts are the 6.8 assists is a number. If you watch his tape and the passes he makes he has special vision.

The shooting absolutely is a concern. The shot is awkward and some of them are forces but in a more structed NBA offense I believe that is easily correctable. He has nice touch around the rim and was a + in C&S situations when his feet are set so there are reason to buy he can have at least decent effeciency.

3 assists more is a significant number. Your talking anywhere from 6-9 extra pts for a team. And even if you go to there per 36 Lamelo is nearly doubling Cole's assist numbers with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio while Cole has an atrocious 1:1 assist to turnover ration for a guy that has the ball in his hands a lot.

I think you are vastly underestimating his playmaking ability if you are just looking at a 6.8 number.

Watch on YouTube

So yes there is some projectability going on here. But combine his excellent length and size for the position, he advanced handle, and great vision.

Also to have a teammate speak so highly (aaron brooks who was in the NBA) of him in terms of his work ethic and want to be great I think he should work on his weaknesses.

“I know he has a lot more improving to do. I know that he’s going to be good because he wants to be good. He wants to be great. I’m just excited for him to get started and hopefully, he lands into a good place that helps him development.”

You aren't doint the entire match. How many points are you subtracting for the less efficiency of him as a scorer and the shots he takes and misses?

How is 6.8 just a number for Lamelo but you literally use 4 assists per game to say Cole is not a good playmaker? 6.8 is his assist number, nothing more nothing less it is what it is.

There's plenty of video of Cole making great reads and passes but those are ignored and all I see is "he only averaged 4 assists". So we're going to stick to facts then if that's what we're doing. 6.8 is his assist number, don't make it into more than it is.

Cool, Lamelo has support from his teammate. There's nothing but positive things said about Cole's work ethic and leadership qualities not just from his teammates but from his coach Roy Williams as well. Does that hold any weight?

[HEZI]

Watch on YouTube

the kid was playing with all +35 year old bigs at the end of there careers. Now imagine an elite rim running that plays above the rim like Mitch in the P&R with him...

Were they the same 35+ year old bigs switching on him on defense also? Were there any 35+ year old guards guarding him? Did he have to guard any legit NBA scorers?

[RHODEY]

The PG debate is interesting on here, I will say. I think we need throw a poll up in the next thread.

I like Killian, but I question a lot about his feel for the game and his mentality. I think Frank would clamp him up in practice and seal the starting spot due to his weak handle, inability to go right, lack of burst and mechanical moves. I don't particularly think he is a bad prospect, but he is going to take some years, and even then, there is no telling, especially when you're talking about developing the right mental game to pair along with the tools in his toolbag.

Cole underperformed, and is certainly not as athletic/explosive as other guys. I do see a world where he is a solid pick. I don't particularly see him as an all star caliber player unless he has some unexpected Dame Lillard type turn and just starts drilling unexpected jumpers. I otherwise am not the biggest believer in his athletic ability, but I think the floor will be more open for him in college. I think he has been getting humbled hearing all this talk about his game and the league will perhaps humble him some more. But I can see him being a solid player off the bench at a minimum.

Haliburton doesn't wow me but is someone I believe will know how to play and maximize his abilities from day 1. Smart player, but has some limitations.

Lamelo you take on potential that he stops taking trash shots and becomes more deferential to his teammates. His body and corresponding scoring package is not yet refined/developed enough for him to be trigger happy in the league. You take him because he theoretically has a high feel for the game and should be able grease the machine that is our offense--find guys on the break, get Knox the ball in good spots so he can be confident (and we can get some utility out of him), throw lobs to Mitch, etc. You hope that his some Luka type magic, because you could be quite disappointed otherwise. Lonzo got humbled real quick, so we'll see what happens with Lamelo.

Honestly, I'm not really feeling any particular prospect in this draft. For all I know, Okoro could be the best player in this draft after he develops a jump shot/solid offensive game and starts locking people down on defense.

Nice post. Killian does have his weaknesses, I would disagree that feel for the game is one of them. The Kid knows how to play, knows how to uses angles, get to his spots, set up his teammates on the dime , hawk passing lanes..all at at a tender young age....

[malik959]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

The thing about Melo's last season was those assist were plays that any average player could make, he just made it look fancy. Like that behind the back pass to Josh Boone, that is in every single freaken highlight play, could have just been a regular pass, but he's a show off, he has to have a high light. Most of his "special passes" have come due to bad defense, oh my God the defense in this league is so bad. He just does not impress me. To me he's just a taller Brandon Jennings. His defense alone would drive us bat shi+ crazy as if he were Calderon. Yeah remember those arguments? Calderon was a good passer too right?

[Fury]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

I don’t think that’s fair. LaMelo averaged 6.8 apg in 31 mpg.

Nash never averaged more than 6.4 in college
Rondo 4.9
Chris Paul 6.6

There’s countless examples. You just gotta see how they play. Ball reminds me of Rubio/Kidd the way he sees plays opening up

[mpharris36]

I'm not talking to that 99% of people right now, am I? Currently I'm just talking with you individually. Don't care about their opinion at this moment unless they want to jump into the discussion but I am interested in what you have to say.

Earlier you were talking about efficiency and percentages, remember the .5% in shooting and how it makes a huge difference over the course of a season. Lets get back to that. So, Lamelo's shooting numbers, yikes! Even Lamelo's playmaking, he averaged 6.8 assists while Cole averaged 4. The way his playmaking is hyped up you would think the dude was out there averaging double digits in assists, like Trae Young and Ja Morant did, yet he wasn't. Lonzo Ball averaged more assists in college than Lamelo has and he was a much more efficient scorer. Thoughts?

My thoughts are the 6.8 assists is a number. If you watch his tape and the passes he makes he has special vision.

The shooting absolutely is a concern. The shot is awkward and some of them are forces but in a more structed NBA offense I believe that is easily correctable. He has nice touch around the rim and was a + in C&S situations when his feet are set so there are reason to buy he can have at least decent effeciency.

3 assists more is a significant number. Your talking anywhere from 6-9 extra pts for a team. And even if you go to there per 36 Lamelo is nearly doubling Cole's assist numbers with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio while Cole has an atrocious 1:1 assist to turnover ration for a guy that has the ball in his hands a lot.

I think you are vastly underestimating his playmaking ability if you are just looking at a 6.8 number.

Watch on YouTube

So yes there is some projectability going on here. But combine his excellent length and size for the position, he advanced handle, and great vision.

Also to have a teammate speak so highly (aaron brooks who was in the NBA) of him in terms of his work ethic and want to be great I think he should work on his weaknesses.

“I know he has a lot more improving to do. I know that he’s going to be good because he wants to be good. He wants to be great. I’m just excited for him to get started and hopefully, he lands into a good place that helps him development.”

How is 6.8 just a number for Lamelo but you literally use 4 assists per game to say Cole is not a good playmaker? 6.8 is his assist number, nothing more nothing less it is what it is.

There's plenty of video of Cole making great reads and passes but those are ignored and all I see is "he only averaged 4 assists". So we're going to stick to facts then if that's what we're doing. 6.8 is his assist number, don't make it into more than it is.

Cool, Lamelo has support from his teammate. There's nothing but positive things said about Cole's work ethic and leadership qualities not just from his teammates but from his coach Roy Williams as well. Does that hold any weight?

Sure it does. Cole seems like a hard worker and has a good head on his shoulder which is why I don't think he will fizzle out like DSJ did. I simply think Cole is a poor playmaker. He simply has a scorers mentality and misses simple passing reads. Now can he get hot form the outside and score. Sure.

I personally don't care for that type of skillset The best version of that type of guard currently is Damian Lillard and he is so lights out as a shooter to warrant his limited PG skills. But he shoots it with such effeciency. If you going to tell me you believe Cole Anthony can get to close to 60% TS% to make up for his lack of PG skills then I guess you can buy his stock. I personally don't see it.

[HEZI]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

per 36
lonzo 7.8
lamelo 7.9
trae 8.9
ja 9.9

turnovers
lonzo 2.5
lamelo 2.9
trae 5.3
ja 5.1

ratio
lonzo 3.04
lamelo 2.72
trae 1.67
ja 1.92

lamelo did it against tougher competition at a younger age, also, all those guys are good players who I wish we drafted

aside from the numbers he is just obviously good at passing

Do we evaluate players based on per 36 numbers? Is that how we do things for the NBA also? Per 36 is a nice projection but it's not reality.

Tougher competition is also debatable. That league is pretty weak. It's actually a lot tougher to put up numbers in a more structured college environment especially when there are teams that love to apply full court presses and double teams and especially when you got so many kids trying to make it to the pros so when you got a high profile prospect they find extra motivation to go at them to make a statement, whereas in the pros guys don't have those same ambitions. In college you got dudes that have history and know about one another since they've played in AAU and different camps and follow each others rankings and so on. I really don't buy this better level of competition stuff just because it's a pro league.

[robillionaire]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

per 36
lonzo 7.8
lamelo 7.9
trae 8.9
ja 9.9

turnovers
lonzo 2.5
lamelo 2.9
trae 5.3
ja 5.1

ratio
lonzo 3.04
lamelo 2.72
trae 1.67
ja 1.92

lamelo did it against tougher competition at a younger age, also, all those guys are good players who I wish we drafted

aside from the numbers he is just obviously good at passing

Do we evaluate players based on per 36 numbers? Is that how we do things for the NBA also? Per 36 is a nice projection but it's not reality.

Tougher competition is also debatable. That league is pretty weak. It's actually a lot tougher to put up numbers in a more structured college environment especially when there are teams that love to apply full court presses and double teams and especially when you got so many kids trying to make it to the pros so when you got a high profile prospect they find extra motivation to go at them to make a statement, whereas in the pros guys don't have those same ambitions. In college you got dudes that have history and know about one another since they've played in AAU and different camps and follow each others rankings and so on. I really don't buy this better level of competition stuff just because it's a pro league.

If you're trying to compare a particular stat I say yes it's fair to use it in that evaluation unless they played a significantly lower amount of minutes. Even if you scrap per 36 the ast/to ratio is still the same

[robillionaire]

personally I would rather evaluate players by watching them play in which case his playmaking talent was obvious to teams and scouts which is why he's going at the top of the draft

[HEZI]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

The thing about Melo's last season was those assist were plays that any average player could make, he just made it look fancy. Like that behind the back pass to Josh Boone, that is in every single freaken highlight play, could have just been a regular pass, but he's a show off, he has to have a high light. Most of his "special passes" have come due to bad defense, oh my God the defense in this league is so bad. He just does not impress me. To me he's just a taller Brandon Jennings. His defense alone would drive us bat shi+ crazy as if he were Calderon. Yeah remember those arguments? Calderon was a good passer too right?

Yeah that's the vibe I get from him, he's more about showing out than anything. I really don't get a sense that he's a legit floor general, he's just all for show like Jennings was. Yeah the defense in that league looks like a joke, I know they don't play much defense in the NBA but that league looks really bad.

[mpharris36]

personally I would rather evaluate players by watching them play in which case his playmaking talent was obvious to teams and scouts which is why he's going at the top of the draft

agreed. there is obvoiusly a production and stat component when evaluating a player and then there is a watching them component. You can clearly see the kid has special feel for the game with the ball for his hands.

I was suspect with the off the court stuff and his dad potentially being a bigger issue in NY but he seems pretty composed to have gone this far through all the craziness and he seems focused on being a great basketball player. So I have come around on him. I still would need to do a lot of self evaluating if we ended up with #1 because Edwards is a legit threat to be the #1 pick as well.

But all these guys have faults...there isn't a prospect without some major areas of improvement in this draft. So its going to be a tough decision no matter what.

[robillionaire]

I've never seen more hype about a players playmaking ability for a dude that averaged 6.8 assists a game

Lonzo averaged 7.6
Trae averaged 8.7
Ja averaged 10

Yet Lamelo's playmaking is hyped up like he's doing some groundbreaking stuff as a playmaker

The thing about Melo's last season was those assist were plays that any average player could make, he just made it look fancy. Like that behind the back pass to Josh Boone, that is in every single freaken highlight play, could have just been a regular pass, but he's a show off, he has to have a high light. Most of his "special passes" have come due to bad defense, oh my God the defense in this league is so bad. He just does not impress me. To me he's just a taller Brandon Jennings. His defense alone would drive us bat shi+ crazy as if he were Calderon. Yeah remember those arguments? Calderon was a good passer too right?

Yeah that's the vibe I get from him, he's more about showing out than anything. I really don't get a sense that he's a legit floor general, he's just all for show like Jennings was. Yeah the defense in that league looks like a joke, I know they don't play much defense in the NBA but that league looks really bad.

If the league is so bad why couldn't top 5 recruit RJ Hampton dominate in it? How come he got bamboozled and fell down the draft board