2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT)

[thebuzzardman]

Wiseman is clearly AD, KP, and Embiid all in one. I mean just look at this touch on this hook shot here.

Read on Twitter

Yeah he’s an awful player. He averaged 20/11/3. Just terrible. Should go undrafted

In three games.
SSS

[bigfnjoe96]

he's kp now ?!?!? jesus.

.....



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[god shammgod]

he's kp now ?!?!? jesus.

You've said Mitch can be used like Giannis, and take exception to the idea that Wiseman can develop into a faceup big?

nope. i specifically didn't say giannis. i said randle or pascal who both have shaky at best handles. or that a best case scenario was young amare. it's more in the realm of possibility that mitch could catch the ball and take 2 or 3 dribbles before he reaches the basket than a guy who mostly dunked in college can become mostly a 3 point shooter. but do you.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The "this player averaged this over three games" is meaningless in comparison cause we had a whole season outside those three games to watch them

We don't have that with Wiseman.

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

This isn't a guard, his size is going to translate at the next level at the very least, the skills are pretty obvious as well.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

he's kp now ?!?!? jesus.

You've said Mitch can be used like Giannis, and take exception to the idea that Wiseman can develop into a faceup big?

nope. i specifically didn't say giannis. i said randle or pascal who both have shaky at best handles. or that a best case scenario was young amare. it's more in the realm of possibility that mitch could catch the ball and take 2 or 3 dribbles before he reaches the basket than a guy who mostly dunked in college can become mostly a 3 point shooter. but do you.

Thank you for clearing that up, you only meant young Amare, the guy who averaged 26ppg at Mitch's age.

[3toheadmelo]

I think ultimately it just boils down to Wiseman really being that ideal Center for me.

On three games? Melo’s been working on you.

I have been following Wiseman since his HS days even during the time we were discussing the 2019 draft.

It is probably debatable who between 3toheadmelo or me liked Wiseman first. Even 3toheadmelo will attest to this.

Yep. So when people use the 3 game argument against us, it doesn’t work. Cause we been watching him since way before his college stint.

[DOT]

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

And those would have been valid arguments at the time

I don't think you understand that saying "he didn't show much outside of rim running in 3 games" is not the same as "he didn't show much, therefore he doesn't have the skills and never will"

Y'all are so sensitive over someone we won't even be in a position to draft.

[thebuzzardman]

The "this player averaged this over three games" is meaningless in comparison cause we had a whole season outside those three games to watch them

We don't have that with Wiseman.

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

This isn't a guard, his size is going to translate at the next level at the very least, the skills are pretty obvious as well.

LaMelo is viewed as a #2 pick after playing zero NCAA games and playing in an underwhelming Aussie league.

[DOT]

LaMelo is viewed as a #2 pick after playing zero NCAA games and playing in an underwhelming Aussie league.

He's also supposedly a transcendent playmaker who was the lead guard on the worst offense in the NBL.

[Worst_to_First]

Im sold on Wiseman now. With Kenny Payne we can turn him into a beast. He can do everything Mitch can do too.

Why is there not the same general enthusiasm in this thread for Payne working with Mitch, the overly talented big already on the roster? If Payne can "turn [fill in the blank 7 footer] into a beast", I think I'd like to see what he can do with Mitch above all else, because he's shown dominant NBA ability AND it preserves talent capital that this roster is generally bereft of.

Because Mitch is a rim runner. Wiseman is a scoring big who can play defense. Kenny Payne can’t do miracles. If so, Willie Caulie Stein would be like AD. WCS and Mitch share the same skill set. So I would lower expectations on Mitch this season.

Am kinda worried that the reason we are hearing this Wiseman smoke is that Mitch may have done something that suddenly turned our new FO and coaching staff off. When Thibs was hired the impression was him and RJ were the untouchables. I am holding out hope that their interest in Wiseman is exclusive to how they see Mitch.

Wiseman is my guy but I still have a soft spot for Mitch. He and DSJ made that 2018-19 season watchable for me.

[thebuzzardman]

On three games? Melo’s been working on you.

I have been following Wiseman since his HS days even during the time we were discussing the 2019 draft.

It is probably debatable who between 3toheadmelo or me liked Wiseman first. Even 3toheadmelo will attest to this.

Yep. So when people use the 3 game argument against us, it doesn’t work. Cause we been watching him since way before his college stint.

Since we're going on HS ability, it RJ Hampton still in the top 4 then?

[3toheadmelo]

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

And those would have been valid arguments at the time

I don't think you understand that saying "he didn't show much outside of rim running in 3 games" is not the same as "he didn't show much, therefore he doesn't have the skills and never will"

Y'all are so sensitive over someone we won't even be in a position to draft.

I mean us liking wiseman seems to be upsetting you more than everyone here lol. But we’re sensitive.. ok

[thebuzzardman]

LaMelo is viewed as a #2 pick after playing zero NCAA games and playing in an underwhelming Aussie league.

He's also supposedly a transcendent playmaker who was the lead guard on the worst offense in the NBL.

And I like him. I'm just pointing out the relentless cherry picking.

[god shammgod]

You've said Mitch can be used like Giannis, and take exception to the idea that Wiseman can develop into a faceup big?

nope. i specifically didn't say giannis. i said randle or pascal who both have shaky at best handles. or that a best case scenario was young amare. it's more in the realm of possibility that mitch could catch the ball and take 2 or 3 dribbles before he reaches the basket than a guy who mostly dunked in college can become mostly a 3 point shooter. but do you.

Thank you for clearing that up, you only meant young Amare, the guy who averaged 26ppg at Mitch's age.

we're talking about the way they play, not the amounts of points at whatever age. my comparison is about mitch being able to dribble a little eventually to create for himself and yours is a guy who made 3 jump shots becoming mostly a jump shooter. but like i said, do you. with every day it gets better. he's gonna be a 7 foot kobe next.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

And those would have been valid arguments at the time

I don't think you understand that saying "he didn't show much outside of rim running in 3 games" is not the same as "he didn't show much, therefore he doesn't have the skills and never will"

Y'all are so sensitive over someone we won't even be in a position to draft.

Because anyone being objective can just look at those 3 games and see flashes of things that rim runners don't do, but this has turned from analyzing James as a prospect into defending Mitch by poking holes James skillset which is obviously more advanced than Mitch. It's not about James as much as it is "We got Mitch, why do we need James" and if you can't see the difference between the two of them then I really don't know what to say.

We're interested in him, the Knicks sound like they may actually try to get him, so I don't see any reason not to discuss his merits, especially since I see him as the best possible pick for us.

[Garbagelo]

can we do the draft already?

not much more will be learned from now until draft day in November

teams have already had 4 months extra time to watch tape

just let it be done

[DOT]

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

And those would have been valid arguments at the time

I don't think you understand that saying "he didn't show much outside of rim running in 3 games" is not the same as "he didn't show much, therefore he doesn't have the skills and never will"

Y'all are so sensitive over someone we won't even be in a position to draft.

I mean us liking wiseman seems to be upsetting you more than everyone here lol. But we’re sensitive.. ok

Well yeah. You are.

[thebuzzardman]

It's not meaningless, he's a top 5 pick in spite of only playing 3 games, and had other guys been judged by 3 games the same exact arguments going against Wiseman would be used in here now.

And those would have been valid arguments at the time

I don't think you understand that saying "he didn't show much outside of rim running in 3 games" is not the same as "he didn't show much, therefore he doesn't have the skills and never will"

Y'all are so sensitive over someone we won't even be in a position to draft.

I mean us liking wiseman seems to be upsetting you more than everyone here lol. But we’re sensitive.. ok

It would probably be a tad easier to take if every topic on here didn't turn into a "Wiseman great/Mitch a rim runner" discussion driven by 2 posters.

[thebuzzardman]

And for the record, I do like the Mitch Rim Runner topics for their potential to upset Shammgod.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Yeah he’s an awful player. He averaged 20/11/3. Just terrible. Should go undrafted

I'm sure with competition like UIC and South Carolina state that's a real reflection of what he's stats would be

DeAndre Ayton averaged the same type of numbers through his first 3 games in college against equally bad opponents, if he were in this draft would you be saying to pass on him?

Joel Embiid averaged 9/8 and 3 fouls per game in 18mpg through his first 3 games, you wouldn't even want him with the 27th pick if he were in this draft and was coming out after 3 games.

Thanks for proving my point for me. A 3 game sample size isn't enough information to make a determination on what type he'll be. He only hit like 2 jumpers in three games and you're comparing him to AD! How do we know he's not DeAndre Jordan or Andre Drummond? Him hitting some turnaround jumpers in HS means nothing to me and when he actually had to play a real team in college he was bad. Why isn't the game against Oregon weighted more than the one against UIC & SCS? At least that one was against a real team with actual division 1 talent. To answer your question, I wouldn't pass on him at 8. He's got freakish size and extremely fluid for someone his size but I don't think I'm going to pretend to expect him to so sort of shooter cuz of it.