2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[malik959]

Ummmmmm you also get assists from passing to a player for layups and dunks as well.

You mean the two players that did nothing but clog the paint? Like I said name another decent player on that team...... They suck!!

Cole playing on the Tarheals :

[RHODEY]

You mean the two players that did nothing but clog the paint? Like I said name another decent player on that team...... They suck!!

Cole playing on the Tarheals :

[Fat]

haliburton will be better than frank. he'll be a good player. but the knicks really need a point or wing who can be a dynamic scorer from multiple spots on the floor. more than they even need a point guard specifically. they need someone from 1-3 who you can give the ball to and can create at a high level.

Agreed the Knicks do need that type of player. Hailburton would still be a strong sidekick next to RJ due to his elite 3 point shooting and he’s a smart player on both ends. The Knicks would be pouring more cereal in the bowl but we still need the milk. I dont think neither Mitchell, RJ or hailburton would be the milk but their the type of supporting cast that could entice a bigger name to join

I’m fine with cole or hailburton

[Deeeez Knicks]

True on needing stars, but odds are low on finding a star at #9/#10. Miles Bridges isnt a no star either last i checked

I dont see how he can be a good pick, and Mikal is a bad pick. I prefer Mikal, but they aren't that far apart either way. Its an ok pick for that range. It just is what it is in that the odds are low at finding a star.

And again, Mikal was coming around and Suns fans really seem to like him a lot.

24 games as a starter this year
11.4ppg/4.6rpg/2.7apg/1bpg/1.5spg/52%fg/42%3pt/66%ts, along with great defense and 1.5 3s a game.

Def benefits and is a nice fit on the sun's, but not everyone can do that and play great d.

Chandler was a good pick too. He was pretty decent before he got hurt.

24 games is not a good sample size to label him a good starter.

Here are Miles Bridges splits when given legit starters minutes

30-39 MPG through 38 games (34 MPG average)

16 PPG / 6 RPG / 2 APG / 44% FG / 36% 3PG / 86 % FT / 55% TS / 1.2 SPG / 1.2 BPG

When you compare that to Mikal's legit starter minutes of 30+, it's pretty obvious who the better player is and it's Miles

Miles is the better scorer, but Mikal is the better shooter, way more efficient and better defender too. I will still take Mikal. Pretty much every advanced stat has Mikal much better too.

Neither is a bust. Your just more likely to get a role player/solid player then a star in that range. We rarely pick in the top 5 and screw ourselves with over the top expectations or draft guys who aren't even good rotation players. Will agree to disagree on that one. For now will settle this in baf playoffs

[malik959]

Cole playing on the Tarheals :

His team mates:

[Fat]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

[HEZI]

True on needing stars, but odds are low on finding a star at #9/#10. Miles Bridges isnt a no star either last i checked

I dont see how he can be a good pick, and Mikal is a bad pick. I prefer Mikal, but they aren't that far apart either way. Its an ok pick for that range. It just is what it is in that the odds are low at finding a star.

And again, Mikal was coming around and Suns fans really seem to like him a lot.

24 games as a starter this year
11.4ppg/4.6rpg/2.7apg/1bpg/1.5spg/52%fg/42%3pt/66%ts, along with great defense and 1.5 3s a game.

Def benefits and is a nice fit on the sun's, but not everyone can do that and play great d.

Chandler was a good pick too. He was pretty decent before he got hurt.

24 games is not a good sample size to label him a good starter.

Here are Miles Bridges splits when given legit starters minutes

30-39 MPG through 38 games (34 MPG average)

16 PPG / 6 RPG / 2 APG / 44% FG / 36% 3PG / 86 % FT / 55% TS / 1.2 SPG / 1.2 BPG

When you compare that to Mikal's legit starter minutes of 30+, it's pretty obvious who the better player is and it's Miles

Miles is the better scorer, but Mikal is the better shooter, way more efficient and better defender too. I will still take Mikal. Pretty much every advanced stat has Mikal much better too.

Neither is a bust. Your just more likely to get a role player/solid player then a star in that range. We rarely pick in the top 5 and screw ourselves with over the top expectations or draft guys who aren't even good rotation players. Will agree to disagree on that one. For now will settle this in baf playoffs

My strongest disagreement is the shooting part. Mikal just isn't that good of a shooter

Mikal: 0.9 makes / 2.4 attempted / 35 %
Miles: 1.5 makes / 4.6 attempted / 33%

For a guy that is 2 years older and has played way more minutes in the NBA than Miles, I would expect more from him but it's the opposite. His production is significantly less

[HEZI]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

In other words, Knicks aren't drafting Killian Hayes

[RHODEY]

Cole playing on the Tarheals :

His team mates:

[RHODEY]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

RJ and Mitch will be what 22 & 23 in 3 years? I would rather amass the best talent available. We really need to follow the Sixers strategy. We aint contending in the next 2 years so whats the point? Just get the best talent.

[Fat]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

In other words, Knicks aren't drafting Killian Hayes

We don’t know who their drafting I’m just saying they don’t need to bother drafting somebody they understand is young and might need the extra grooming because they clearly suck working with these type of players and make them take the back seat everytime instead of actually developing them.

[HEZI]

Sixers are not a gold standard in the NBA. They are the 6th seed in the East and aren't even confident in their two core pieces coexisting moving forward. They've wasted numerous assets over the years and they've built nothing more than a mediocre squad. From wasting picks on Okafor and Noel, to making one of the worst draft night trades in recent history with Tatum and future pick for Fultz, to wasting assets for a Jimmy Butler rental, to overpaying for a washed up Al Horford. Why do folks keep bringing up Philly over and over again as if they built something better than other playoff teams who did it differently?

[Fat]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

RJ and Mitch will be what 22 & 23 in 3 years? I would rather amass the best talent available. We really need to follow the Sixers strategy. We aint contending in the next 2 years so whats the point? Just get the best talent.

The Philly strategy died when they changed the lottery. Even if you could still suck and be pretty much guaranteed a top pick the Knicks STILL never did it right they rather chase the 9th and 10th seed.

[KnicksGadfly]

Sixers are not a gold standard in the NBA. They are the 6th seed in the East and aren't even confident in their two core pieces coexisting moving forward. They've wasted numerous assets over the years and they've built nothing more than a mediocre squad. From wasting picks on Okafor and Noel, to making one of the worst draft night trades in recent history with Tatum and future pick for Fultz, to wasting assets for a Jimmy Butler rental, to overpaying for a washed up Al Horford. Why do folks keep bringing up Philly over and over again as if they built something better than other playoff teams who did it differently?

Cause it's about the process. Philly made mistakes and you can question the results, sure, but the thinking behind most of their process was sound (they made other mistakes with their process, too, of course). With the Knicks, you have a problem with both process and results.

I liken this to a Carmelo Anthony situation. Sometimes that jab-jab-jab goes in, but it still wasn't a good process. Sometimes catering to Melo, firing coaches, signing Chris Smith, and surrounding him with leaders like Kidd and Wallace can get you a weak playoff loss against the Pacers (lol). However, if you have a good process, like investing in a true star who can play team basketball, lead, shoot efficiently and play defense, yea, you still might not win a championship, you can rest assured that it was the right plan. That's why I've never really held it against Ewing.

There are things to learn from Philly. Tanking was the right move. Getting rid of roster scum and uncovering guys like Covington was the right move. Scamming Perry for Elfrid Payton was the right move. Picking Embiid, right move. Hell, even getting Fultz might have been the right move...they knew they needed a PG, and if he had turned out well, then it would have been a good piece. Fultz was supposed to be a playmaker, shooter, defender.

Philly's problems? Hinkie ignoring culture and FAs. Maybe scouting issues with Fultz. Coaching issues with Brown. We can learn from that.

My thought? If we are not confident that we can build a contender after giving the GM the green light to tank, we need to fire the GM.

[HarthorneWingo]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

RJ and Mitch will be what 22 & 23 in 3 years? I would rather amass the best talent available. We really need to follow the Sixers strategy. We aint contending in the next 2 years so whats the point? Just get the best talent.

The Philly strategy died when they changed the lottery. Even if you could still suck and be pretty much guaranteed a top pick the Knicks STILL never did it right they rather chase the 9th and 10th seed.

I don't think there's a cookie cutter approach to this. I think it's just about having an excellent scouting department, a vision of what kind of talent/team you want to put together, and taking advantage of the opportunities available.

We could (1) draft "the right guy," (2) sign the right free agent, and (3) make the right trade, which would change the direction of this team putting it right smack dab in the playoff picture. We have the assets and the cap space to do all that. The question is will it be done the right way.

Spoiler:

[HEZI]

Sixers are not a gold standard in the NBA. They are the 6th seed in the East and aren't even confident in their two core pieces coexisting moving forward. They've wasted numerous assets over the years and they've built nothing more than a mediocre squad. From wasting picks on Okafor and Noel, to making one of the worst draft night trades in recent history with Tatum and future pick for Fultz, to wasting assets for a Jimmy Butler rental, to overpaying for a washed up Al Horford. Why do folks keep bringing up Philly over and over again as if they built something better than other playoff teams who did it differently?

Cause it's about the process. Philly made mistakes and you can question the results, sure, but the thinking behind most of their process was sound (they made other mistakes with their process, too, of course). With the Knicks, you have a problem with both process and results.

I liken this to a Carmelo Anthony situation. Sometimes that jab-jab-jab goes in, but it still wasn't a good process. Sometimes catering to Melo, firing coaches, signing Chris Smith, and surrounding him with leaders like Kidd and Wallace can get you a weak playoff loss against the Pacers (lol). However, if you have a good process, like investing in a true star who can play team basketball, lead, shoot efficiently and play defense, yea, you still might not win a championship, you can rest assured that it was the right plan. That's why I've never really held it against Ewing.

There are things to learn from Philly. Tanking was the right move. Getting rid of roster scum and uncovering guys like Covington was the right move. Scamming Perry for Elfrid Payton was the right move. Picking Embiid, right move. Hell, even getting Fultz might have been the right move...they knew they needed a PG, and if he had turned out well, then it would have been a good piece. Fultz was supposed to be a playmaker, shooter, defender.

Philly's problems? Hinkie ignoring culture and FAs. Maybe scouting issues with Fultz. Coaching issues with Brown. We can learn from that.

My thought? If we are not confident that we can build a contender after giving the GM the green light to tank, we need to fire the GM.

There is no one way process to do things in the NBA. Different teams have found success in different ways. Milwaukee did it one way. Toronto did it one way. Boston another way. Miami another way. Lakers another way. Clippers their way. Denver their way. Utah their way. I mean, Philly hasn't done anything better than any of those teams, so really why is their "process" so Golden? It's one way, cool but it aint the only way. At the end of the day, Knicks passed up on franchise changing talent even with their lower lotto picks in recent years. We landed a top 3 pick and got RJ just recently. We stole Robinson in the 2nd round. Yet we also passed up on Donovan Mitchell the same year Fultz, Lonzo and Josh Jackson went in the top 5. People are now comparing Haliburton to Lonzo and there is a good chance we can draft Haliburton with a lower lotto pick so we don't need a top 3 pick for that. We missed on SGA the same year Marvin Bagley went 2nd overall. Doncic or Trae would have been huge gets if we would have been able to get into the top spot for one of them but that's the same year that Porzingis got us off to a decent start before things fell apart. We won only 29 games the whole year and the worst team in the league won only 22. Orlando was sitting in the 5th spot with 25 wins and got bumped down to 6 where they selected Mo Bamba (bust) whereas the 27 win Kings moved up to 2nd overall to select Marvin Bagley and passed up on Doncic. That race was super tight and even a team as fortunate as the Kings found a way to mess it up, just like Philly did with Fultz.

[RHODEY]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

RJ and Mitch will be what 22 & 23 in 3 years? I would rather amass the best talent available. We really need to follow the Sixers strategy. We aint contending in the next 2 years so whats the point? Just get the best talent.

The Philly strategy died when they changed the lottery. Even if you could still suck and be pretty much guaranteed a top pick the Knicks STILL never did it right they rather chase the 9th and 10th seed.

It's harder but still makes the most sense for us. Nobody is coming here now who would make a difference and our core is hella young. This strategy of reaching for projected 10th picks because they local heroes that appease clueless fans and also reaching for flawed/olds stars just cements us in the treadmill.

You have MAJOR talent in the next draft ...a great opportunity to augment this squad.

[HarthorneWingo]

Sixers are not a gold standard in the NBA. They are the 6th seed in the East and aren't even confident in their two core pieces coexisting moving forward. They've wasted numerous assets over the years and they've built nothing more than a mediocre squad. From wasting picks on Okafor and Noel, to making one of the worst draft night trades in recent history with Tatum and future pick for Fultz, to wasting assets for a Jimmy Butler rental, to overpaying for a washed up Al Horford. Why do folks keep bringing up Philly over and over again as if they built something better than other playoff teams who did it differently?

Cause it's about the process. Philly made mistakes and you can question the results, sure, but the thinking behind most of their process was sound (they made other mistakes with their process, too, of course). With the Knicks, you have a problem with both process and results.

I liken this to a Carmelo Anthony situation. Sometimes that jab-jab-jab goes in, but it still wasn't a good process. Sometimes catering to Melo, firing coaches, signing Chris Smith, and surrounding him with leaders like Kidd and Wallace can get you a weak playoff loss against the Pacers (lol). However, if you have a good process, like investing in a true star who can play team basketball, lead, shoot efficiently and play defense, yea, you still might not win a championship, you can rest assured that it was the right plan. That's why I've never really held it against Ewing.

There are things to learn from Philly. Tanking was the right move. Getting rid of roster scum and uncovering guys like Covington was the right move. Scamming Perry for Elfrid Payton was the right move. Picking Embiid, right move. Hell, even getting Fultz might have been the right move...they knew they needed a PG, and if he had turned out well, then it would have been a good piece. Fultz was supposed to be a playmaker, shooter, defender.

Philly's problems? Hinkie ignoring culture and FAs. Maybe scouting issues with Fultz. Coaching issues with Brown. We can learn from that.

My thought? If we are not confident that we can build a contender after giving the GM the green light to tank, we need to fire the GM.

There is no one way process to do things in the NBA. Different teams have found success in different ways. Milwaukee did it one way. Toronto did it one way. Boston another way. Miami another way. Lakers another way. Clippers their way. Denver their way. Utah their way. I mean, Philly hasn't done anything better than any of those teams, so really why is their "process" so Golden? It's one way, cool but it aint the only way. At the end of the day, Knicks passed up on franchise changing talent even with their lower lotto picks in recent years. We landed a top 3 pick and got RJ just recently. We stole Robinson in the 2nd round. Yet we also passed up on Donovan Mitchell the same year Fultz, Lonzo and Josh Jackson went in the top 5. People are now comparing Haliburton to Lonzo and there is a good chance we can draft Haliburton with a lower lotto pick so we don't need a top 3 pick for that. We missed on SGA the same year Marvin Bagley went 2nd overall. Doncic or Trae would have been huge gets if we would have been able to get into the top spot for one of them but that's the same year that Porzingis got us off to a decent start before things fell apart. We won only 29 games the whole year and the worst team in the league won only 22. Orlando was sitting in the 5th spot with 25 wins and got bumped down to 6 where they selected Mo Bamba (bust) whereas the 27 win Kings moved up to 2nd overall to select Marvin Bagley and passed up on Doncic. That race was super tight and even a team as fortunate as the Kings found a way to mess it up, just like Philly did with Fultz.

Agreed. It's these "draft addicts" who want to do it only "The Philly Way." They're always looking at the next group of players in the following draft rather than looking at all options that are out there. This is 3-D chess, not checkers. We have to look to scavenge players from other teams who are having salary cap issues or from teams that have both chemistry AND salary cap issues. There are disgruntled players out there looking for a change of scenery too (like Julius Randle who we know isn't happy here).

"In only 4 years, Bronny James will be available."

[RHODEY]

Sixers are not a gold standard in the NBA. They are the 6th seed in the East and aren't even confident in their two core pieces coexisting moving forward. They've wasted numerous assets over the years and they've built nothing more than a mediocre squad. From wasting picks on Okafor and Noel, to making one of the worst draft night trades in recent history with Tatum and future pick for Fultz, to wasting assets for a Jimmy Butler rental, to overpaying for a washed up Al Horford. Why do folks keep bringing up Philly over and over again as if they built something better than other playoff teams who did it differently?

Cause it's about the process. Philly made mistakes and you can question the results, sure, but the thinking behind most of their process was sound (they made other mistakes with their process, too, of course). With the Knicks, you have a problem with both process and results.

I liken this to a Carmelo Anthony situation. Sometimes that jab-jab-jab goes in, but it still wasn't a good process. Sometimes catering to Melo, firing coaches, signing Chris Smith, and surrounding him with leaders like Kidd and Wallace can get you a weak playoff loss against the Pacers (lol). However, if you have a good process, like investing in a true star who can play team basketball, lead, shoot efficiently and play defense, yea, you still might not win a championship, you can rest assured that it was the right plan. That's why I've never really held it against Ewing.

There are things to learn from Philly. Tanking was the right move. Getting rid of roster scum and uncovering guys like Covington was the right move. Scamming Perry for Elfrid Payton was the right move. Picking Embiid, right move. Hell, even getting Fultz might have been the right move...they knew they needed a PG, and if he had turned out well, then it would have been a good piece. Fultz was supposed to be a playmaker, shooter, defender.

Philly's problems? Hinkie ignoring culture and FAs. Maybe scouting issues with Fultz. Coaching issues with Brown. We can learn from that.

My thought? If we are not confident that we can build a contender after giving the GM the green light to tank, we need to fire the GM.

Right...and even as a "failure" Philly is still a damn good squad, still in playoff contention, and still way ahead of our team... Guys always complaining we never tank properly , and those same guys are reaching way back for a 10-13 faux point guard?

It's no wonder they aren't fans of tanking they wouldn't know what to do with a top 6 pick if it smacked them upside the head!.

[RHODEY]

Cause it's about the process. Philly made mistakes and you can question the results, sure, but the thinking behind most of their process was sound (they made other mistakes with their process, too, of course). With the Knicks, you have a problem with both process and results.

I liken this to a Carmelo Anthony situation. Sometimes that jab-jab-jab goes in, but it still wasn't a good process. Sometimes catering to Melo, firing coaches, signing Chris Smith, and surrounding him with leaders like Kidd and Wallace can get you a weak playoff loss against the Pacers (lol). However, if you have a good process, like investing in a true star who can play team basketball, lead, shoot efficiently and play defense, yea, you still might not win a championship, you can rest assured that it was the right plan. That's why I've never really held it against Ewing.

There are things to learn from Philly. Tanking was the right move. Getting rid of roster scum and uncovering guys like Covington was the right move. Scamming Perry for Elfrid Payton was the right move. Picking Embiid, right move. Hell, even getting Fultz might have been the right move...they knew they needed a PG, and if he had turned out well, then it would have been a good piece. Fultz was supposed to be a playmaker, shooter, defender.

Philly's problems? Hinkie ignoring culture and FAs. Maybe scouting issues with Fultz. Coaching issues with Brown. We can learn from that.

My thought? If we are not confident that we can build a contender after giving the GM the green light to tank, we need to fire the GM.

There is no one way process to do things in the NBA. Different teams have found success in different ways. Milwaukee did it one way. Toronto did it one way. Boston another way. Miami another way. Lakers another way. Clippers their way. Denver their way. Utah their way. I mean, Philly hasn't done anything better than any of those teams, so really why is their "process" so Golden? It's one way, cool but it aint the only way. At the end of the day, Knicks passed up on franchise changing talent even with their lower lotto picks in recent years. We landed a top 3 pick and got RJ just recently. We stole Robinson in the 2nd round. Yet we also passed up on Donovan Mitchell the same year Fultz, Lonzo and Josh Jackson went in the top 5. People are now comparing Haliburton to Lonzo and there is a good chance we can draft Haliburton with a lower lotto pick so we don't need a top 3 pick for that. We missed on SGA the same year Marvin Bagley went 2nd overall. Doncic or Trae would have been huge gets if we would have been able to get into the top spot for one of them but that's the same year that Porzingis got us off to a decent start before things fell apart. We won only 29 games the whole year and the worst team in the league won only 22. Orlando was sitting in the 5th spot with 25 wins and got bumped down to 6 where they selected Mo Bamba (bust) whereas the 27 win Kings moved up to 2nd overall to select Marvin Bagley and passed up on Doncic. That race was super tight and even a team as fortunate as the Kings found a way to mess it up, just like Philly did with Fultz.

Agreed. It's these "draft addicts" who want to do it only "The Philly Way." They're always looking at the next group of players in the following draft rather than looking at all options that are out there. This is 3-D chess, not checkers. We have to look to scavenge players from other teams who are having salary cap issues or from teams that have both chemistry AND salary cap issues. There are disgruntled players out there looking for a change of scenery too (like Julius Randle who we know isn't happy here).

"In only 4 years, Bronny James will be available."

The chess strategy only works if you know how to play the game..this FO struggles with checkers , let alone Chess. Seriously they want to draft DSJ all over again....let that marinate.

In situations like this you have to change the game because the "Brain"trust is clueless. They need to switch from board games to the slot machine...its the only way to save these dummies from themselves.