Donovan Mitchell Thread #6 - Something might actually happen in this one!!!!!!

[thebuzzardman]

[Ghetto Gospel]

Mans was like 40 when he got here

yeah but there's literally like 2 guys only you can take to play the 1, IQ at 50c or frank at 10c, iq for 50 is eh and frank is not really a 1, maybe squeeze in mardy collins or toney douglas for 5c?

knicks have rarely had options at the 1 not having many options here is on brand

yet, toney douglas is unironically better than half this list

whos better toney douglas or frank

[Synciere]

So depressing.

[Besart19]

yeah but there's literally like 2 guys only you can take to play the 1, IQ at 50c or frank at 10c, iq for 50 is eh and frank is not really a 1, maybe squeeze in mardy collins or toney douglas for 5c?

knicks have rarely had options at the 1 not having many options here is on brand

yet, toney douglas is unironically better than half this list

whos better toney douglas or frank

TD was pretty good before his shoulder surgery and before putting him forcefully at the PG spot!

As for the roster, in the last 20+ years worse than us have been only Vancouver Grizzlies and Charlotte Bobcats

[robillionaire]

jesus. look at that chart. i'm just gonna keep my dollar.

Team IQ still winning tho

[Jeff Van Gully]

this list really needed pablo prigioni

Mans was like 40 when he got here

yeah but there's literally like 2 guys only you can take to play the 1, IQ at 50c or frank at 10c, iq for 50 is eh and frank is not really a 1, maybe squeeze in mardy collins or toney douglas for 5c?

it's for players under 25 years old

[HarthorneWingo]

Sadly though, I can no longer drink kombucha as it upsets my system. I have released my kombucha mother back to Mother Earth.

Life is cruel.

my go to is a shot of apple cider vinegar in LaCroix - sht slaps.

Right in the gut, I'd reckon.

It’s delicious. Instead, homemake your ACV salad dressing. Wingo’s recipe:

-olive oil (3 parts)
-ACV (1 part) (only use Bragg’s Organic ACV)
-minced garlic
-a little Dijon mustard
-honey
-mild Jamaican curry

Table spoon that once a day.

[K_ick_God]

jesus. look at that chart. i'm just gonna keep my dollar.

Team IQ still winning tho

You're self-hating Knicks fans.

[KnixinSix]

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

Is that how it was in NOP? My understanding was he played a lot more off ball and was quite effective as a secondary scorer. He played that way in 20/21 almost out of necessity and last year he still (wrongly) thought he needed to be that player again instrad of deferring to a growing RJ and/or the other more viable options around him.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

that's fine, we wouldn't want him carrying a team on his back anymore and that's the only way he can be an all NBA player. we should hope he averages like 16 and 8 with 3 or 4 assists a game, to me that would be good from the pf position. Maybe that's not worth what they're paying him but that's about what you'd want out of a 3rd or 4th option, you'd basically want his stats to drop like chris bosh 2013 2014 after he joined the heat, he wasn't putting up the numbers he did in Toronto but that was good for the team. I think there's a better chance randle respects players like brunson and donovan to let them run the show

The way he gets those numbers makes it hard to have a functioning offense, because he does not do things without the ball that you want from a high level role player. The issue of fit is real, he could have stats like Chris Bosh, he's not going to be getting those numbers in the flow of an offense, even with the Pelicans his stats didn't start to balloon until he became the focal point of the offense with his trusty sidekick Payton feeding him possessions. How you get your numbers is important, with ball dominant PnR creators like Brunson/Mitchell you want the guy who like Bosh, will just let plays develop and doesn't need to touch the ball, do DHO or screen every time down the floor.

It's not a matter of whether Randle respects them or not, it's that he's not effective off the ball and has never been effective off the ball at any point in his career. Just looking at stats Monta Ellis was a beast, but in reality he wasn't a good fit with anyone and played a losing brand of basketball.

[KnixinSix]

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

His fluke, empty arena, ALL-NBA season is his curse....because now he thinks he is a star and needs to be the focal point of an offense. But he's not it...

If you want to see Randle thrive, then he basically needs to play off the ball and stop trying to create. If he's willing to drop the ego from that fluke All-NBA season and be a complementary piece, a 4th option, he can be efficient and quite good.

Randle-centric offense is bad basketball.

This we agree on and with Brunson and emerging youth or especially if we land Donovan, he will need to play more like he did in NOP. He has shown that he can play that way effectively already and I believe he will go back to playing like that (if he remains on the team).

[Nazrmohamed]

LMAO

[NoDopeOnSundays]

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

Is that how it was in NOP? My understanding was he played a lot more off ball and was quite effective as a secondary scorer. He played that way in 20/21 almost out of necessity and last year he still (wrongly) thought he needed to be that player again instrad of deferring to a growing RJ and/or the other more viable options around him.

After the ASB, when AD started basically playing half the time Randle became the focus of the offense, he was 2nd on the team in touches per game behind Payton who was feeding him to try and up his assist total so a stupid team would sign him, Jrue only played 8 games out of the 23, and it was the Payton/Randle show, they went 7-16.

Pre ASB the team was Jrue and AD leading them in touches per game, post ASB it was Payton and Randle (Payton averaged 11, 9, 7 after the break). Going by Pelicans stats isn't a good way to view things, it's how they got suckered by Elfrid.

[KnixinSix]

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

Is that how it was in NOP? My understanding was he played a lot more off ball and was quite effective as a secondary scorer. He played that way in 20/21 almost out of necessity and last year he still (wrongly) thought he needed to be that player again instrad of deferring to a growing RJ and/or the other more viable options around him.

After the ASB, when AD started basically playing half the time Randle became the focus of the offense, he was 2nd on the team in touches per game behind Payton who was feeding him to try and up his assist total so a stupid team would sign him, Jrue only played 8 games out of the 22, and it was the Payton/Randle show, they went 7-16.

Pre ASB the team was Jrue and AD leading them in touches per game, post ASB it was Payton and Randle (Payton averaged 11, 9, 7 after the break). Going by Pelicans stats isn't a good way to view things, it's how they got suckered by Elfrid.

When Randle doesn't ISO and makes quick attacks to the baskets he can be pretty effective in that type of role. He would /should be the 3rd or even 4th option should we land DM between DM,RJ,Brunson and him. Its up to Thibs and staff to design an appropriate offense that takes advantage of what our players strengths are.

[Iron Mantis]

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

His fluke, empty arena, ALL-NBA season is his curse....because now he thinks he is a star and needs to be the focal point of an offense. But he's not it...

If you want to see Randle thrive, then he basically needs to play off the ball and stop trying to create. If he's willing to drop the ego from that fluke All-NBA season and be a complementary piece, a 4th option, he can be efficient and quite good.

Randle-centric offense is bad basketball.

This we agree on and with Brunson and emerging youth or especially if we land Donovan, he will need to play more like he did in NOP. He has shown that he can play that way effectively already and I believe he will go back to playing like that (if he remains on the team).

I hope he does. It would be great to stagger his minutes also so he can do his thing.

I just think that Pandora's box was opened with that All-NBA, all star selection, and huge contract.

Some well-established stars are willing to make sacrifices in their play because being a star is not a novelty to them anymore...they just want to win.

Randle finally tasted stardom and god-like adoration for the first time in 7 years in the league. Being on commercials and all that jazz.

You really think he's trying to forfeit all that personal glory so someone else on the team can get it? Especially if the team wins with him playing fourth fiddle?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

that's fine, we wouldn't want him carrying a team on his back anymore and that's the only way he can be an all NBA player. we should hope he averages like 16 and 8 with 3 or 4 assists a game, to me that would be good from the pf position. Maybe that's not worth what they're paying him but that's about what you'd want out of a 3rd or 4th option, you'd basically want his stats to drop like chris bosh 2013 2014 after he joined the heat, he wasn't putting up the numbers he did in Toronto but that was good for the team. I think there's a better chance randle respects players like brunson and donovan to let them run the show

Oh, so you basically want him at Obi's per 36 numbers.



You don't have to twist Obi's arm and put him through emotional therapy sessions to make him embrace a role as 4th option to hit those numbers on very good efficiency....

Damn good point, also post all-star break Obi averaged 14ppg on 39 touches per game.




Obi is a finisher, you set him up, he finishes the plays. What is more likely to mesh with two ball dominant PnR creators, the finisher, or the ball dominant PF.

[El Poochio]

Shump
Rautins
Fields
Jordan Hill
Mitch

[Chanel Bomber]

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

Is that how it was in NOP? My understanding was he played a lot more off ball and was quite effective as a secondary scorer. He played that way in 20/21 almost out of necessity and last year he still (wrongly) thought he needed to be that player again instrad of deferring to a growing RJ and/or the other more viable options around him.

Randle played the 5 a lot more in NO, which resulted in the team bleeding points and missing the playoffs. That, and the fact that he played with a stretch big in AD, which resulted to some efficient scoring, but the cost was not insignificant.

I think Randle is better suited to be a 6th man. Or a 3rd option if he can shoot close to 40% from 3, which only happened once in his career. So it's hard to feel optimistic about that happening again. It's certainly not something you can count on. Hence the 6th man role.

The issue is that there was no one for him to defer to here before Brunson. The Knicks should've run a more equalitarian offense once it was clear that Randle didn't have it but personal agendas took precedence over team play.

[RHODEY]

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Is that how it was in NOP? My understanding was he played a lot more off ball and was quite effective as a secondary scorer. He played that way in 20/21 almost out of necessity and last year he still (wrongly) thought he needed to be that player again instrad of deferring to a growing RJ and/or the other more viable options around him.

After the ASB, when AD started basically playing half the time Randle became the focus of the offense, he was 2nd on the team in touches per game behind Payton who was feeding him to try and up his assist total so a stupid team would sign him, Jrue only played 8 games out of the 22, and it was the Payton/Randle show, they went 7-16.

Pre ASB the team was Jrue and AD leading them in touches per game, post ASB it was Payton and Randle (Payton averaged 11, 9, 7 after the break). Going by Pelicans stats isn't a good way to view things, it's how they got suckered by Elfrid.

When Randle doesn't ISO and makes quick attacks to the baskets he can be pretty effective in that type of role. He would /should be the 3rd or even 4th option should we land DM between DM,RJ,Brunson and him. Its up to Thibs and staff to design an appropriate offense that takes advantage of what our players strengths are.

Realistically Randle would be 6th man of the year type of player for a contender, too much of your offense needs to cater to him for him to be a 3rd/4th option, he burns through possessions to get his numbers.