OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

Yet on the flip side, I’m fairly certain the overwhelming majority of NBA players received Pfizer/Moderna w/ booster. So how does that explain the current outbreak in the league?

They travel and mingle and then play a contact sport

There is no containment for the NBA unless they return to a lock down environment like the bubble

[DOT]

Read on Twitter

Yet on the flip side, I’m fairly certain the overwhelming majority of NBA players received Pfizer/Moderna w/ booster. So how does that explain the current outbreak in the league?

I think a lot of them didn't get the booster, just the original shot

And it seems like the booster helps a lot, but Omicron is still chewing through it

From what I've seen (though, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), despite the vaccine not being as effective at stopping you from getting Omicron, it still make you significantly less likely to get more severe symptoms, so that's still a reason to get vaccinated, and anyone pointing at this saying "see, the vaccine doesn't work because it doesn't stop Omicron" is incorrect

The thing that worries me is, while it does help with symptoms, because it's still so potent that vaccinated people are getting it, means there's a much higher likelihood of it mutating again, and despite what some people say about viruses trending towards being less lethal, that's not always the case because evolution doesn't have a predetermined path, it just happens

So right now, what we should be trying to do is reduce the number of severe cases so we don't overwhelm hospitals. And the best way to do that is to get vaccinated, and practice proper safety measures

You still might get it (and I'd say, you still have a pretty high chance of getting it), but we can still do all we can to mitigate risk

Also, saying "it doesn't completely stop it, therefore it's basically worthless" is a Nirvana fallacy. Wearing your seatbelt and following road safety rules won't completely prevent you from getting in an accident, but it does help prevent you from dying if it does happen.

[Thepaintismine]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

The good news with the unvaxxed is that according to the CDC they are not transmitting the virus after infection, so are building up natural immunity. This is making their immune systems even stronger. Can't say that about the vax'd. Most vax'd people have no resistance to the Omicron.

The vax'd are also still transmitters. They are protecting themselves from serious illness (but not from the severe side effects or even deaths, of the vax.) So, if the Omicron is indeed milder, we might want to rethink vaccinations (for those not in risk groups) as that might be prolonging things (i.e. getting vax'd for latest variant but still passing it on after infection when there might be no danger from the Omicron.) The number of people I know who got vax'd and are still getting sick is high. The number of people I know who gots CV and no vax is also high, but they are all fine and not transmitters and of course their immune system is working as intended.

Now that CV appears more mild, natural immunity is the way to go.
If we go the way of vax's, it will never end. (as we are seeing.)

The above post is misinformation, the CDC has not said unvaccinated people with 'natural immunity' do not transmit the virus after infection.

[DOT]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

The good news with the unvaxxed is that according to the CDC they are not transmitting the virus after infection, so are building up natural immunity. This is making their immune systems even stronger. Can't say that about the vax'd. Most vax'd people have no resistance to the Omicron.

The vax'd are also still transmitters. They are protecting themselves from serious illness (but not from the severe side effects or even deaths, of the vax.) So, if the Omicron is indeed milder, we might want to rethink vaccinations (for those not in risk groups) as that might be prolonging things (i.e. getting vax'd for latest variant but still passing it on after infection when there might be no danger from the Omicron.) The number of people I know who got vax'd and are still getting sick is high. The number of people I know who gots CV and no vax is also high, but they are all fine and not transmitters and of course their immune system is working as intended.

Now that CV appears more mild, natural immunity is the way to go.
If we go the way of vax's, it will never end. (as we are seeing.)

Yeah, you're gonna need to source claims like this, or we're gonna flag it as misinformation.

[2010]

Read on Twitter

Yet on the flip side, I’m fairly certain the overwhelming majority of NBA players received Pfizer/Moderna w/ booster. So how does that explain the current outbreak in the league?

I think a lot of them didn't get the booster, just the original shot

And it seems like the booster helps a lot, but Omicron is still chewing through it

From what I've seen (though, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), despite the vaccine not being as effective at stopping you from getting Omicron, it still make you significantly less likely to get more severe symptoms, so that's still a reason to get vaccinated, and anyone pointing at this saying "see, the vaccine doesn't work because it doesn't stop Omicron" is incorrect

The thing that worries me is, while it does help with symptoms, because it's still so potent that vaccinated people are getting it, means there's a much higher likelihood of it mutating again, and despite what some people say about viruses trending towards being less lethal, that's not always the case because evolution doesn't have a predetermined path, it just happens

So right now, what we should be trying to do is reduce the number of severe cases so we don't overwhelm hospitals. And the best way to do that is to get vaccinated, and practice proper safety measures

You still might get it (and I'd say, you still have a pretty high chance of getting it), but we can still do all we can to mitigate risk

Also, saying "it doesn't completely stop it, therefore it's basically worthless" is a Nirvana fallacy. Wearing your seatbelt and following road safety rules won't completely prevent you from getting in an accident, but it does help prevent you from dying if it does happen.

I respect anyones decision to do what’s best for themselves, their family, and their community and the general public at large.

But I would be lying if I didn’t address the bold portion.

For all the narrative, I know personally a sizable enough amount of people who are unvaccinated and contracted COVID and recovered without severe symptoms and/or hospitalization, to rationalize it’s not simply a small sample sized outlier.

A particular and specific personal case study were two contacts of mine who are related to each other and live in the same household. The vaccinated individual traveled abroad last month and returned with COVID, confirmed via test upon re-entrance to the country. They then infected their unvaccinated household member. The infected household relative has a pre-existing condition and was very worried, concerned, even upset with the vaccinated traveler. Yet they both experienced the same symptoms, recovery time, and required no hospitalization. This is even with the unvaccinated person having the pre-existing condition.

Those are the specifics of one case study of people I know. Who called venting to me. But coming from a person who has roots entrenched in the black community, there are literally mad other unvaccinated people I know who have got it and recovered without severe symptoms or requiring hospitalization.

The narrative is cap and Kyrie will soon prove to be another one who debunks the narrative.

Whether you are vaccinated or not is your choice, your business, and I don’t care to judge you for it. Cuz at this point nobody is right or wrong (not even the experts).

Just take care of yourself and others by wearing your mask, limiting unnecessary contact and close interaction, and don’t be reckless or an entitled fool. Pretty small things to ask but most are failing at this.

[G_K_F]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

Uh? No.

I know a large portion of doctors working at various hospitals around the state - all of them are very serious about the pandemic and vaccines and whatnot. They’ve all said the same thing - testing asymptomatic players is dumb. The entire league is vaccinated. There is no risk factor. This is just political theater.

[DOT]

For all the narrative, I know personally a sizable enough amount of people who are unvaccinated and contracted COVID and recovered without severe symptoms and/or hospitalization, to rationalize it’s not simply a small sample sized outlier.

First off, I'm glad that you know a lot of people who had it and recovered

But also, when we have data on a large scale (upwards of billions of people), it really is an outlier unless you're talking about millions of people

I think it's an issue of, and this goes for everybody, people have a hard time visualizing large numbers and probability, and the vaccine is meant to increase your probability of being fine. I know quite a few unvaccinated people myself who have got it and are fine (I have a lot of Trump supporters in my extended family), and some vaccinated people who got it and are fine. I also know someone who wasn't vaccinated who got it, is my age (went to high school with him) who had a stroke. But that's still not enough for me to use scientifically, cause it's like, 20 people

But it is a fact that (at least until Omicron) vaccination makes you more likely to not have severe symptoms.

[3toheadmelo]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

Uh? No.

I know a large portion of doctors working at various hospitals around the state - all of them are very serious about the pandemic and vaccines and whatnot. They’ve all said the same thing - testing asymptomatic players is dumb. The entire league is vaccinated. There is no risk factor. This is just political theater.

Cool beans. I know multiple doctors, NP’s, nurses who disagree with you. I also work in the health care as well and have a degree in this area so I know a bit. There’s nothing political at all for telling people who has COVID to enter protocols so they don’t spread it to others. It’s common sense.

[2010]

For all the narrative, I know personally a sizable enough amount of people who are unvaccinated and contracted COVID and recovered without severe symptoms and/or hospitalization, to rationalize it’s not simply a small sample sized outlier.

First off, I'm glad that you know a lot of people who had it and recovered

But also, when we have data on a large scale (upwards of billions of people), it really is an outlier unless you're talking about millions of people

I think it's an issue of, and this goes for everybody, people have a hard time visualizing large numbers and probability, and the vaccine is meant to increase your probability of being fine. I know quite a few unvaccinated people myself who have got it and are fine (I have a lot of Trump supporters in my extended family), and some vaccinated people who got it and are fine. I also know someone who wasn't vaccinated who got it, is my age (went to high school with him) who had a stroke. But that's still not enough for me to use scientifically, cause it's like, 20 people

But it is a fact that (at least until Omicron) vaccination makes you more likely to not have severe symptoms.

As you know, you and I don’t see eye-to-eye on data being the be all end all.

[G_K_F]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

Uh? No.

I know a large portion of doctors working at various hospitals around the state - all of them are very serious about the pandemic and vaccines and whatnot. They’ve all said the same thing - testing asymptomatic players is dumb. The entire league is vaccinated. There is no risk factor. This is just political theater.

Cool beans. I know multiple doctors, NP’s, nurses who disagree with you. I also work in the health care as well and have a degree in this area so I know a bit. There’s nothing political at all for telling people who has COVID to enter protocols so they don’t spread it to others. It’s common sense.

Spread it to who? Vaccinated players who are not experiencing symptoms? Nearly all the players and coaches in protocols have little to no symptoms. It’s quite clear the Omicron variant is not very serious. It’s causing breakthrough cases but that’s far as it is. We’ve reached the stage where the virus itself is going to be something we live with and move on with our lives.

I’m glad that you have a medical degree but I know ICU doctors who worked in the frontlines of the pandemic and literally think what’s going in the NBA is a joke. Also the fact that the media keeps reporting case numbers but not hospitalizations. That’s like reporting how many have the flu at this point. We are at a point where the pandemic is no longer causing deaths in wide numbers - or even serious hospitalizations in vaccinated individuals - and we must move forward.

The hysteria needs to end. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either. I know it’s taboo to say we must move forward from Covid but that’s the reality. Covid isn’t going anywhere - but it’s not doing much harm if you’re vaccinated. So let’s move forward and stop holding out completely healthy players for no reason.

[nedleeds]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

The good news with the unvaxxed is that according to the CDC they are not transmitting the virus after infection, so are building up natural immunity. This is making their immune systems even stronger. Can't say that about the vax'd. Most vax'd people have no resistance to the Omicron.

The vax'd are also still transmitters. They are protecting themselves from serious illness (but not from the severe side effects or even deaths, of the vax.) So, if the Omicron is indeed milder, we might want to rethink vaccinations (for those not in risk groups) as that might be prolonging things (i.e. getting vax'd for latest variant but still passing it on after infection when there might be no danger from the Omicron.) The number of people I know who got vax'd and are still getting sick is high. The number of people I know who gots CV and no vax is also high, but they are all fine and not transmitters and of course their immune system is working as intended.

Now that CV appears more mild, natural immunity is the way to go.
If we go the way of vax's, it will never end. (as we are seeing.)

Yeah, you're gonna need to source claims like this, or we're gonna flag it as misinformation.

It's mostly true.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/in-covid-19-vaccinated-people-those-with-prior-infection-likely-to-have-more-antibodies

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2785919

Prior recovery absolutely bolsters enduring immunity. The mRNA vaccines are also safe and effective (and profitable!). An otherwise healthy 0-40 year old who recovered from covid probably gains little from the vaccines. Left horizon data is obviously limited since we don't have the normal 5-10 year history of enduring efficacy like we do for things like tetanus shots.

You can get an antibody test (most likely free if they have insurance that covers yearly physicals). The Roche test caps at 2,500 and was the same methodlogy use to obtain the EUA and later the full auth for the vaccines so it's a nice apples to apples comparison.

The mrna vaccines are highly effective at provoking autoimmune responses in almost all people (those with suppressed immunity are less likely), getting and recovering from covid is effective at provoking ai reponses in people. Both have endurance, with NA being comparable. Getting covid is bad. So if you haven't already had it, getting the vaccine makes sense for nearly everyone, but every person and their doctor should be the ultimate decision maker.

Corporate media and our disgusting self serving politicians who have been bought by special interests have no interest in discussing universal free anti-body testing because it would actually reveal *real* community immunity with quant measures. It would undermine pharma profits, and at least for the left mute their ability to continue their authoritarian roman orgy.

[DOT]

As you know, you and I don’t see eye-to-eye on data being the be all end all.

Well, like I said, it's a probability thing. Just makes things more/less likely to happen, doesn't give you 100% either way

It's entirely possible that you and everyone you know don't get vaccinated, and you all get it and are fine. I don't disbelieve you

I also understand, experts can be wrong. And the black community in particular has pretty valid reasons to be distrustful of the government giving out free shots

I just think using Omicron, a Covid variant that's specifically more resistant to vaccines than previous variants, as proof that vaccines don't work is ridiculous. And I know you weren't doing that.

[god shammgod]

melo is a nurse ?

[3toheadmelo]

Uh? No.

I know a large portion of doctors working at various hospitals around the state - all of them are very serious about the pandemic and vaccines and whatnot. They’ve all said the same thing - testing asymptomatic players is dumb. The entire league is vaccinated. There is no risk factor. This is just political theater.

Cool beans. I know multiple doctors, NP’s, nurses who disagree with you. I also work in the health care as well and have a degree in this area so I know a bit. There’s nothing political at all for telling people who has COVID to enter protocols so they don’t spread it to others. It’s common sense.

Spread it to who? Vaccinated players who are not experiencing symptoms? Nearly all the players and coaches in protocols have little to no symptoms. It’s quite clear the Omicron variant is not very serious. It’s causing breakthrough cases but that’s far as it is. We’ve reached the stage where the virus itself is going to be something we live with and move on with our lives.

I’m glad that you have a medical degree but I know ICU doctors who worked in the frontlines of the pandemic and literally think what’s going in the NBA is a joke. Also the fact that the media keeps reporting case numbers but not hospitalizations. That’s like reporting how many have the flu at this point. We are at a point where the pandemic is no longer causing deaths in wide numbers - or even serious hospitalizations in vaccinated individuals - and we must move forward.

The hysteria needs to end. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either. I know it’s taboo to say we must move forward from Covid but that’s the reality. Covid isn’t going anywhere - but it’s not doing much harm if you’re vaccinated. So let’s move forward and stop holding out completely healthy players for no reason.

It can spread to other players, refs, coaches, who then can spread it to their families and friends who may or may not be vaccinated. But the point is if we don't stop the spread, the cycle will never end and COVID will just keep mutating and potentially into something much more dangerous.

Will just have to agree to disagree with you here.

[2010]

As you know, you and I don’t see eye-to-eye on data being the be all end all.

Well, like I said, it's a probability thing. Just makes things more/less likely to happen, doesn't give you 100% either way

It's entirely possible that you and everyone you know don't get vaccinated, and you all get it and are fine. I don't disbelieve you

I also understand, experts can be wrong. And the black community in particular has pretty valid reasons to be distrustful of the government giving out free shots

I just think using Omicron, a Covid variant that's specifically more resistant to vaccines than previous variants, as proof that vaccines don't work is ridiculous. And I know you weren't doing that.

I agree with everything you stated but have to address the enlarged. So any potential readers, don’t assume I’m unvaccinated. I understand you wrote “possible” but don’t want to mislead any readers of our postings, as I’ve purposely never disclosed my status. I’m pro-privacy as intended by HIPAA and I’m pro-choice.

[2010]

Uh? No.

I know a large portion of doctors working at various hospitals around the state - all of them are very serious about the pandemic and vaccines and whatnot. They’ve all said the same thing - testing asymptomatic players is dumb. The entire league is vaccinated. There is no risk factor. This is just political theater.

Cool beans. I know multiple doctors, NP’s, nurses who disagree with you. I also work in the health care as well and have a degree in this area so I know a bit. There’s nothing political at all for telling people who has COVID to enter protocols so they don’t spread it to others. It’s common sense.

Spread it to who? Vaccinated players who are not experiencing symptoms? Nearly all the players and coaches in protocols have little to no symptoms. It’s quite clear the Omicron variant is not very serious. It’s causing breakthrough cases but that’s far as it is. We’ve reached the stage where the virus itself is going to be something we live with and move on with our lives.

I’m glad that you have a medical degree but I know ICU doctors who worked in the frontlines of the pandemic and literally think what’s going in the NBA is a joke. Also the fact that the media keeps reporting case numbers but not hospitalizations. That’s like reporting how many have the flu at this point. We are at a point where the pandemic is no longer causing deaths in wide numbers - or even serious hospitalizations in vaccinated individuals - and we must move forward.

The hysteria needs to end. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either. I know it’s taboo to say we must move forward from Covid but that’s the reality. Covid isn’t going anywhere - but it’s not doing much harm if you’re vaccinated. So let’s move forward and stop holding out completely healthy players for no reason.

I can see both sides of this argument now.

[2010]

Cool beans. I know multiple doctors, NP’s, nurses who disagree with you. I also work in the health care as well and have a degree in this area so I know a bit. There’s nothing political at all for telling people who has COVID to enter protocols so they don’t spread it to others. It’s common sense.

Spread it to who? Vaccinated players who are not experiencing symptoms? Nearly all the players and coaches in protocols have little to no symptoms. It’s quite clear the Omicron variant is not very serious. It’s causing breakthrough cases but that’s far as it is. We’ve reached the stage where the virus itself is going to be something we live with and move on with our lives.

I’m glad that you have a medical degree but I know ICU doctors who worked in the frontlines of the pandemic and literally think what’s going in the NBA is a joke. Also the fact that the media keeps reporting case numbers but not hospitalizations. That’s like reporting how many have the flu at this point. We are at a point where the pandemic is no longer causing deaths in wide numbers - or even serious hospitalizations in vaccinated individuals - and we must move forward.

The hysteria needs to end. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either. I know it’s taboo to say we must move forward from Covid but that’s the reality. Covid isn’t going anywhere - but it’s not doing much harm if you’re vaccinated. So let’s move forward and stop holding out completely healthy players for no reason.

It can spread to other players, refs, coaches, who then can spread it to their families and friends who may or may not be vaccinated. But the point is if we don't stop the spread, the cycle will never end and COVID will just keep mutating and potentially into something much more dangerous.

Will just have to agree to disagree with you here.

I think his stance is based on the belief everyone should be vaccinated. Standing on if so, then symptoms would be minor and/or asymptotic altogether with minimal impact on the games and/or quality of life. I don’t necessarily agree either, but his logic and the logic of those docs he’s spoken to is basically “let the unvaccinated deal with their decision (or lack thereof).” Which is fair.

[Clyde_Style]

melo is a nurse ?

It’s a fact that cookies heal the sick

[Clyde_Style]

Cool beans. I know multiple doctors, NP’s, nurses who disagree with you. I also work in the health care as well and have a degree in this area so I know a bit. There’s nothing political at all for telling people who has COVID to enter protocols so they don’t spread it to others. It’s common sense.

Spread it to who? Vaccinated players who are not experiencing symptoms? Nearly all the players and coaches in protocols have little to no symptoms. It’s quite clear the Omicron variant is not very serious. It’s causing breakthrough cases but that’s far as it is. We’ve reached the stage where the virus itself is going to be something we live with and move on with our lives.

I’m glad that you have a medical degree but I know ICU doctors who worked in the frontlines of the pandemic and literally think what’s going in the NBA is a joke. Also the fact that the media keeps reporting case numbers but not hospitalizations. That’s like reporting how many have the flu at this point. We are at a point where the pandemic is no longer causing deaths in wide numbers - or even serious hospitalizations in vaccinated individuals - and we must move forward.

The hysteria needs to end. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either. I know it’s taboo to say we must move forward from Covid but that’s the reality. Covid isn’t going anywhere - but it’s not doing much harm if you’re vaccinated. So let’s move forward and stop holding out completely healthy players for no reason.

It can spread to other players, refs, coaches, who then can spread it to their families and friends who may or may not be vaccinated. But the point is if we don't stop the spread, the cycle will never end and COVID will just keep mutating and potentially into something much more dangerous.

Will just have to agree to disagree with you here.

I agree the goal should be to minimize the spread so there’s less opportunities for it to mutate and perpetuate

Unfortunately that’s not going to happen at current vax rates and lack of masking

[thebuzzardman]

The vaccines may not be able to stop people from being infected from the variant but it’s still protecting people from getting severe diseases/death which is the ultimate goal.

It’s also necessary for asymptomatic players to enter protocols so they don’t spread COVID. Making them play in large crowds, being in contact with referres, opposing players and coaches is a dumb idea. I appluaud Adam Silver for taking the most precautions

The good news with the unvaxxed is that according to the CDC they are not transmitting the virus after infection, so are building up natural immunity. This is making their immune systems even stronger. Can't say that about the vax'd. Most vax'd people have no resistance to the Omicron.

The vax'd are also still transmitters. They are protecting themselves from serious illness (but not from the severe side effects or even deaths, of the vax.) So, if the Omicron is indeed milder, we might want to rethink vaccinations (for those not in risk groups) as that might be prolonging things (i.e. getting vax'd for latest variant but still passing it on after infection when there might be no danger from the Omicron.) The number of people I know who got vax'd and are still getting sick is high. The number of people I know who gots CV and no vax is also high, but they are all fine and not transmitters and of course their immune system is working as intended.

Now that CV appears more mild, natural immunity is the way to go.
If we go the way of vax's, it will never end. (as we are seeing.)

Guess we should have taken this approach for measles, mumps, rubella and polio