Trades and Transactions thread cont - post Mikal trade

[stuporman]

Except by signing 2nd rounder and vet min players who were paid less than the MLE. Those exceptions is why 2nd rounders have more value. The league had to add this exception to their “hard cap” because eventually a team would have a top heavy team with less than 14 players at the hard cap. It would eventually lead to a fiasco.

It’s why Jeremy Cohen’s posts of the cap situation are unfortunately inacurate. It’s not illustrating the 2nd rounder exception. The Knicks can work through all their hard cap space and then sign their 2nd round players.

I don't think its inaccurate because the knicks are using the 2nd round pick holds to lower there cap. If it was just an open roster spot there would be a roster hold (for a vet minimum) which is larger than the 2nd round hold.

That is why it was crucial to make 3 2nd round picks...otherwise the roster cap hold would be higher than the 2nd round pick exception.

But they can still sign someone using that space regardless, reach the hard cap, and then officially sign the 2nd rounders. It’s all order of operations, however, it does mean they can use the full Obi TPE in a trade. Though I think they would probably wouldn’t.

They could in theory swap McBride for one of the picks going to the Nets, and then using the Obi TPE trade that pick for Kessler or Richards, and then go over the cap to bring back Precious and Burks using a combination of Bird rights and the TPMLE. And then sign the 2nd rounders going over the cap as needed.

Do they lose the 'go over the cap' bird rights for Precious if they don't extend qualifying offer or is that they just lose the right to match another team's offer meaning he's UFA instead of RFA? I think the hard cap takes away the bird right exception if they didn't extend QO but not sure.

[R-DAWG]

Wow. You don't think much of Brunson. No wonder you are down on the team, leader of the Golden Chariot Treadmill team.

I think Brunson is excellent. I also think Maxey is excellent.

I would be very happy with either of them.

I guess I'm not a Knicks fan if I don't consider Brunson the undisputed greatest player of all time.

You clearly don't think Brunson is better than souped up IQ. Sad.

I think Tyrese Maxey is better than a souped up IQ

[thebuzzardman]

I think Brunson is excellent. I also think Maxey is excellent.

I would be very happy with either of them.

I guess I'm not a Knicks fan if I don't consider Brunson the undisputed greatest player of all time.

You clearly don't think Brunson is better than souped up IQ. Sad.

I think Tyrese Maxey is better than a souped up IQ

Wrong

[R-DAWG]

I don't think its inaccurate because the knicks are using the 2nd round pick holds to lower there cap. If it was just an open roster spot there would be a roster hold (for a vet minimum) which is larger than the 2nd round hold.

That is why it was crucial to make 3 2nd round picks...otherwise the roster cap hold would be higher than the 2nd round pick exception.

But they can still sign someone using that space regardless, reach the hard cap, and then officially sign the 2nd rounders. It’s all order of operations, however, it does mean they can use the full Obi TPE in a trade. Though I think they would probably wouldn’t.

They could in theory swap McBride for one of the picks going to the Nets, and then using the Obi TPE trade that pick for Kessler or Richards, and then go over the cap to bring back Precious and Burks using a combination of Bird rights and the TPMLE. And then sign the 2nd rounders going over the cap as needed.

Do they lose the 'go over the cap' bird rights for Precious if they don't extend qualifying offer or is that they just lose the right to match another team's offer meaning he's UFA instead of RFA? I think the hard cap takes away the bird right exception if they didn't extend QO but not sure.

I believe that they retain bird rights but he because an unrestricted free agent, meaning NY does not have the right to match any offer he recives.

[stuporman]

Wow. You don't think much of Brunson. No wonder you are down on the team, leader of the Golden Chariot Treadmill team.

I think Brunson is excellent. I also think Maxey is excellent.

I would be very happy with either of them.

I guess I'm not a Knicks fan if I don't consider Brunson the undisputed greatest player of all time.

You clearly don't think Brunson is better than souped up IQ. Sad.

Does a salad come with that souped up?

[WargamesX]

I don't think its inaccurate because the knicks are using the 2nd round pick holds to lower there cap. If it was just an open roster spot there would be a roster hold (for a vet minimum) which is larger than the 2nd round hold.

That is why it was crucial to make 3 2nd round picks...otherwise the roster cap hold would be higher than the 2nd round pick exception.

But they can still sign someone using that space regardless, reach the hard cap, and then officially sign the 2nd rounders. It’s all order of operations, however, it does mean they can use the full Obi TPE in a trade. Though I think they would probably wouldn’t.

They could in theory swap McBride for one of the picks going to the Nets, and then using the Obi TPE trade that pick for Kessler or Richards, and then go over the cap to bring back Precious and Burks using a combination of Bird rights and the TPMLE. And then sign the 2nd rounders going over the cap as needed.

Do they lose the 'go over the cap' bird rights for Precious if they don't extend qualifying offer or is that they just lose the right to match another team's offer meaning he's UFA instead of RFA? I think the hard cap takes away the bird right exception if they didn't extend QO but not sure.

No it doesn’t take the bird rights away but he is a UFA. Honestly by the time you reach the 1st apron the best asset you have is bird rights. I think they would have matched IHart if they had his full bird rights, because that’s the only way you can keep what you got.

[thebuzzardman]

I think Brunson is excellent. I also think Maxey is excellent.

I would be very happy with either of them.

I guess I'm not a Knicks fan if I don't consider Brunson the undisputed greatest player of all time.

You clearly don't think Brunson is better than souped up IQ. Sad.

Does a salad come with that souped up?

Yes. An R-DAWG word salad on why the Knicks suck and are on a treadmill.

[stuporman]

You clearly don't think Brunson is better than souped up IQ. Sad.

Does a salad come with that souped up?

Yes. An R-DAWG word salad on why the Knicks suck and are on a treadmill.

Now that I think about it, it's usually a choice of either word salad or souped up, not both.

[moocow007]

Kessler is definitely a better option than Richards. Question is how much does Ainge value him? Would the Nets be interested in Deuce enough so they send one of those unprotected picks to Utah? Then the Knicks can send some more 2nds to Utah or maybe Sims and McCullers (Utah wanted Grimes and McCullars is Grimes ish). Theyvthey can go after adding someone like Siddiq Bey or Miles Bridges with the Tax MLE for bench offense lost by moving Deuce

Whatever they do they should try and do it soon or we’ll be looking at “Javaaaale McGeeeeee!” as our backup C.

[mpharris36]

Except by signing 2nd rounder and vet min players who were paid less than the MLE. Those exceptions is why 2nd rounders have more value. The league had to add this exception to their “hard cap” because eventually a team would have a top heavy team with less than 14 players at the hard cap. It would eventually lead to a fiasco.

It’s why Jeremy Cohen’s posts of the cap situation are unfortunately inacurate. It’s not illustrating the 2nd rounder exception. The Knicks can work through all their hard cap space and then sign their 2nd round players.

I don't think its inaccurate because the knicks are using the 2nd round pick holds to lower there cap. If it was just an open roster spot there would be a roster hold (for a vet minimum) which is larger than the 2nd round hold.

That is why it was crucial to make 3 2nd round picks...otherwise the roster cap hold would be higher than the 2nd round pick exception.

But they can still sign someone using that space regardless, reach the hard cap, and then officially sign the 2nd rounders. It’s all order of operations, however, it does mean they can use the full Obi TPE in a trade. Though I think they would probably wouldn’t.

They could in theory swap McBride for one of the picks going to the Nets, and then using the Obi TPE trade that pick for Kessler or Richards, and then go over the cap to bring back Precious and Burks using a combination of Bird rights and the TPMLE. And then sign the 2nd rounders going over the cap as needed. Though I think Ariel is a draft and stash and Mccular and Kolek are getting sent to the G league with Pacôme.

I agree with that but that is why the 2nd round excpetion is importnat because they have just enough to fit the TPMLE type money in then go over the hard cap to sign rookies. I think the roster spot cap holds would cost more meaning they couldn't since the TPMLE with the roster cap holds taking them over the 1st apron.

The 2nd round exemptions fit nicely to give us just enough to fit under the 1st apron with the 2nd round exceptions then you go over to sign those 2nd rounders after the fact to go over.

I'm saying the knicks certainly don't want to do that.

They want to not hard cap the 1st apron so they have the 2nd apron room to use the TPMLE, use bird rights to bring back Precious, and then still have room to work with via trades or signing in the season.

THe ideal situation is to have burks S&T included in this deal...unless Duece is going in the deal as well bringing back Kessler or someone like that with the Obi TPE.

[stuporman]

But they can still sign someone using that space regardless, reach the hard cap, and then officially sign the 2nd rounders. It’s all order of operations, however, it does mean they can use the full Obi TPE in a trade. Though I think they would probably wouldn’t.

They could in theory swap McBride for one of the picks going to the Nets, and then using the Obi TPE trade that pick for Kessler or Richards, and then go over the cap to bring back Precious and Burks using a combination of Bird rights and the TPMLE. And then sign the 2nd rounders going over the cap as needed.

Do they lose the 'go over the cap' bird rights for Precious if they don't extend qualifying offer or is that they just lose the right to match another team's offer meaning he's UFA instead of RFA? I think the hard cap takes away the bird right exception if they didn't extend QO but not sure.

No it doesn’t take the bird rights away but he is a UFA. Honestly by the time you reach the 1st apron the best asset you have is bird rights. I think they would have matched IHart if they had his full bird rights, because that’s the only way you can keep what you got.

I'm still thinking that extending a QO holds more significance in the new salary rules with being hard capped but I just am not sure. It seems that they are impementing some crazy strict stuff to reign in the big money franchises and this seems like it would fit into their plan to do that. I'd need a citation link to confirm it not just forum discussion, no offense.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks trade for that career backup center yet?

[moocow007]

Kessler isn’t just your stereotypical “big white dude”. He actually reminds me a little of AK47 in some aspects.

https://youtu.be/2FkEvm68C9w?si=yjSmV3mMzYkyHudG

[stuporman]

Can a team do a sign and trade on a 3 year deal that has a payment up front but a non-guarantee waive clause for less than a year to satisfy the rules?

Like sign and trade Burks on a 3 year deal that has a few mil up front but they can waive him before the start of the season or so and the rest is n-g then add cash to cover the cost of the up front money. This might allow the Knicks to use him as salary filler without the Nets actually having to carry him for more than a few months also letting him to sign with another team this season.

They might be able to only get away with it once before the league closes that loophole but the Knicks only need to do it once to get what they need done.

[WargamesX]

I don't think its inaccurate because the knicks are using the 2nd round pick holds to lower there cap. If it was just an open roster spot there would be a roster hold (for a vet minimum) which is larger than the 2nd round hold.

That is why it was crucial to make 3 2nd round picks...otherwise the roster cap hold would be higher than the 2nd round pick exception.

But they can still sign someone using that space regardless, reach the hard cap, and then officially sign the 2nd rounders. It’s all order of operations, however, it does mean they can use the full Obi TPE in a trade. Though I think they would probably wouldn’t.

They could in theory swap McBride for one of the picks going to the Nets, and then using the Obi TPE trade that pick for Kessler or Richards, and then go over the cap to bring back Precious and Burks using a combination of Bird rights and the TPMLE. And then sign the 2nd rounders going over the cap as needed. Though I think Ariel is a draft and stash and Mccular and Kolek are getting sent to the G league with Pacôme.

I agree with that but that is why the 2nd round excpetion is importnat because they have just enough to fit the TPMLE type money in then go over the hard cap to sign rookies. I think the roster spot cap holds would cost more meaning they couldn't since the TPMLE with the roster cap holds taking them over the 1st apron.

The 2nd round exemptions fit nicely to give us just enough to fit under the 1st apron with the TPMLE then you go over to sign those 2nd rounders after the fact to go over.

I'm saying the knicks certainly don't want to do that.

They want to not hard cap the 1st apron so they have the 2nd apron room to use the TPMLE, use bird rights to bring back Precious, and then still have room to work with via trades or signing in the season.

THe ideal situation is to have burks S&T included in this deal...unless Duece is going in the deal as well bringing back Kessler or someone like that with the Obi TPE.

Those seem to me to be the two best case routes available for the knicks at the moment.

Brunson/Mcbride/Kolek
Bridges/DDV
OG/Hart/ Pacome
Randle/Precious
Mitch/Sims/Precious

OR

Brunson/Burks/Kolek
Bridges/DDV
OG/Hart/Pacome
Randle/Precious
Mitch/Sims/Kessler (or Richards or another yet to be named center)

Both give the knicks 2nd apron depth. Basically a roster designed to be set for for at least 2 years before they got to make hard decisions, and they have full bird rights on everyone involved.

[stuporman]

If the Knicks wind up using Deuce in the Bridges trade to not be hard capped the Nets have to take less draft compensation because he's worth at least one first by himself and hurts the Knicks in a few other ways, too.

It would suck if the Knicks lose him and then still not be able to fill the center rotation spot while not having him to play. Not being hard capped at the 1st apron seems like a big deal to filling that center weakness so Deuce might be the cap casualty either way.

[GONYK]

Can a team do a sign and trade on a 3 year deal that has a payment up front but a non-guarantee waive clause for less than a year to satisfy the rules?

Like sign and trade Burks on a 3 year deal that has a few mil up front but they can waive him before the start of the season or so and the rest is n-g then add cash to cover the cost of the up front money. This might allow the Knicks to use him as salary filler without the Nets actually having to carry him for more than a few months also letting him to sign with another team this season.

They might be able to only get away with it once before the league closes that loophole but the Knicks only need to do it once to get what they need done.

No.

The NBA actually closed up that loophole based on a trade Brock Aller made when he was in Cleveland.

[WargamesX]

Can a team do a sign and trade on a 3 year deal that has a payment up front but a non-guarantee waive clause for less than a year to satisfy the rules?

Like sign and trade Burks on a 3 year deal that has a few mil up front but they can waive him before the start of the season or so and the rest is n-g then add cash to cover the cost of the up front money. This might allow the Knicks to use him as salary filler without the Nets actually having to carry him for more than a few months also letting him to sign with another team this season.

They might be able to only get away with it once before the league closes that loophole but the Knicks only need to do it once to get what they need done.

No.

The NBA actually closed up that loophole based on a trade Brock Aller made when he was in Cleveland.

I have never been a fan of this FO until this group Leon Rose brought over. I like them as much as the players.

[stuporman]

Can a team do a sign and trade on a 3 year deal that has a payment up front but a non-guarantee waive clause for less than a year to satisfy the rules?

Like sign and trade Burks on a 3 year deal that has a few mil up front but they can waive him before the start of the season or so and the rest is n-g then add cash to cover the cost of the up front money. This might allow the Knicks to use him as salary filler without the Nets actually having to carry him for more than a few months also letting him to sign with another team this season.

They might be able to only get away with it once before the league closes that loophole but the Knicks only need to do it once to get what they need done.

No.

The NBA actually closed up that loophole based on a trade Brock Aller made when he was in Cleveland.

Dam that evil genius!!!

[Context]

Wow. You don't think much of Brunson. No wonder you are down on the team, leader of the Golden Chariot Treadmill team.

I think Brunson is excellent. I also think Maxey is excellent.

I would be very happy with either of them.

I guess I'm not a Knicks fan if I don't consider Brunson the undisputed greatest player of all time.

No, just better than Tyrese Maxey.

Fury & Buzz, he's trolling...I dont even believe he's a knick fan and I'm being dead series...Brunson was a top 5 MVP candidate.
Maxey is just getting started