The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread

[BBALLER4FR]

Read on Twitter

Uh oh. Battle of the Frank Nittys.

Knicks trying to right a wrong

[thebuzzardman]

I used to feel kind of bad for myself and other Knick fans, about how terrible the Knicks have been for so long. Then I spend a little time reading on this forum and I say to myself "It's exactly what I/they deserve"

We are about to turn the corner. That extreme darkness signals an imminent dawn my friend.

I doubt it. Knicks are like the NY Jets. Will forever find a way to screw sh*t up.

[thebuzzardman]

Spoiler:

knox was terrible. bad on d and inefficient on o. he got a long leash because they picked him. if he looks the same as year 1 everyone will be down on him too next summer. frank showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. he was actually a little worse in everything including defense. he could still turn it around but that's a red flag. but i agree, there's no rush to dump him unless you can get a decent 1st for him and that seems unlikely. so keep him for the year. maybe he gets his chance at some point and shows something. i wouldn't bet on it though.

I think there's a good chance Knox doesn't really improve, or at least doesn't improve as much as people expect next year

Mostly, where are his shots coming from now? If we start him, he's gonna be next to 3 shoot first guys in Randle, DSJ, and RJ. He's not taking shots from RJ, he's the 3rd pick. Randle's being paid 23 million so he gets priority too. And I don't think DSJ is gonna sacrifice shots for Knox, nor should he. And with guys like Morris and Portis coming off the bench looking to get paid in FA next year, they're not gonna want to sacrifice for him either. In theory this makes Knox more efficient, but in practice, I don't know. Plus now he's a full time SF, which means he's out of position on defense, so he might be just as bad if not worse. And he thinks Fiz was holding him accountable on that end, which is a pretty big red flag to me.

I'm a believer in trends. Bad rookie season is a bad rookie season, bad sophomore season maybe there's extenuating circumstances, but if you're still in the same place by year 3, that's when you've past the sunk cost point.

i don't think knox is starting this year. i can't imagine morris came here without a starting guarantee. he knew there would be backlash by going back on his word. he didn't do that for a backup role. as a starter he might turn this opportunity into more money. and they're not benching randle or mitch. for a rookie he actually shot the 3 well. better than the 2 guys who were vying for rookie of the year. so that's where he'll get his points probably. his defense will likely still be bad. he might be a little better in the paint but i wouldn't expect much. but as long as he hits the 3 at a decent clip he'll make it to the next year. there is a lot of competition though for bench roles. shoot too badly and he might actually sit for awhile next year. i don't think he'll get the same leeway he did as a rook.

I don't think Knox starts either. Pretty sure he'll be in the rotation though.

Pretty obvious starting 5:
PG: DSJr
SG: RJ
SF: Morris
PF: Randle
C: Mitch.

I THINK the first sub is Mitch out, to preserve fouls and stamina, and Knox in, with Randle sliding to C and Morris to PF. Fiz is drooling to play Randle as a small ball 5 and Randle and Morris get max minutes this way

Next easy substitutions
SG: Trier
PG Payton

Perry has a history of making sure PG's he brings in, play. Also, Payton is just better all around than Frank.

That's 8.

Now the harder part. Obviously now Randle and Morris need some rest. (Also, the order of these subs can change etc, it's just a guestimate)

I say Portis subs in for "Randle" for a few minutes. I think Gibson dresses most games but is really around "just in case" or for very particular matchups. I put Randle in quotes as since Portis can function as a 4/5, he may sub in for Randle, but then see below.

When Morris goes out, Randle comes back in.

Randle and Morris will be #1 and #2 in minutes by FAR.

10th and 11th men will be 2 out of: Dotson, Ellington, Iggy, Frank. Whoever it is, won't play much, but it'll be the "10th man" who at least gets some semi regular minutes. Pretty easy to see team will be looking for 3 point shooting here. While that obviously would seem to mean Ellington, I figure Dotson or Iggy have a chance to edge him out. Both SG and SF are already two players deep, and RJ might see minutes at SF. 2 and 3 can be somewhat interchangeable, I'd guess Dotson. Ellington still dresses as 13th man.

Frank and Iggy should go to the G-League.

[iLLmatic860]

I used to feel kind of bad for myself and other Knick fans, about how terrible the Knicks have been for so long. Then I spend a little time reading on this forum and I say to myself "It's exactly what I/they deserve"

We are about to turn the corner. That extreme darkness signals an imminent dawn my friend.

I doubt it. Knicks are like the NY Jets. Will forever find a way to screw sh*t up.

If we keep Perry long term then we have nothing to worry about. Hes a smooth fella. He doesnt make panic moves. We in good shape.

[thebuzzardman]

We are about to turn the corner. That extreme darkness signals an imminent dawn my friend.

I doubt it. Knicks are like the NY Jets. Will forever find a way to screw sh*t up.

If we keep Perry long term then we have nothing to worry about. Hes a smooth fella. He doesnt make panic moves. We in good shape.

I'd expect the messed up unexpected. Knicks will find a way. Perry will turn out to be not as good as we thought, he leaves for somewhere else, whatever.

By the way, as an aside, Perry and Mills are going to be held, in my mind, STRONGLY accountable for Fiz's performance this year. They had a chance to bring in nearly anyone to coach. Obviously there could be a coach a FO likes but that coach wants to go elsewhere. Like coach Bud. But they launched a so called "extensive" coaching search. Well, it's your big moment as POBO and GM, so I figure executives want an excellent coach, THE hands down, #1 best coach available, to turn around a franchise.

There choice was Fiz.

Fiz now has a legit NBA roster, while being light in "top end talent", goes 14 players deep; 15 if you count Bullock, back to 14 if you hate Frank.

A good coach should be able to take a team like that to 41 wins. Anything less, Fiz sucks. And then by extension, Perry and Mills too, because they picked him.

[DOT]

I doubt it. Knicks are like the NY Jets. Will forever find a way to screw sh*t up.

If we keep Perry long term then we have nothing to worry about. Hes a smooth fella. He doesnt make panic moves. We in good shape.

I'd expect the messed up unexpected. Knicks will find a way. Perry will turn out to be not as good as we thought, he leaves for somewhere else, whatever.

By the way, as an aside, Perry and Mills are going to be held, in my mind, STRONGLY accountable for Fiz's performance this year. They had a chance to bring in nearly anyone to coach. Obviously there could be a coach a FO likes but that coach wants to go elsewhere. Like coach Bud. But they launched a so called "extensive" coaching search. Well, it's your big moment as POBO and GM, so I figure executives want an excellent coach, THE hands down, #1 best coach available, to turn around a franchise.

There choice was Fiz.

Fiz now has a legit NBA roster, while being light in "top end talent", goes 14 players deep; 15 if you count Bullock, back to 14 if you hate Frank.

A good coach should be able to take a team like that to 41 wins. Anything less, Fiz sucks. And then by extension, Perry and Mills too, because they picked him.

I think 41 wins is a pretty high bar, especially being that in the NBA you kind of need top end talent to even be average

I like Perry's approach in that we're keeping our draft capital, picking high ceiling somewhat project players, and that he's treating cap space as an asset instead of handing out 4 year deals like candy. My concern is, can he build a cohesive unit from what we have? Because if we're trying to win games next year, in terms of roster construction, the moves don't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think we signed a bad player last year, and if we did it's only a 1 year deal, but I can't say the pieces all fit, especially with adding Randle to DSJ and RJ means you have 3 guys who are primarily on ball scorers, with limited shooting in the starting lineup, and Mitch is a non factor shooting, so our spacing is gonna suck. We probably would have been better saving the cap and just bringing in Morris to start

[god shammgod]

Spoiler:

I think there's a good chance Knox doesn't really improve, or at least doesn't improve as much as people expect next year

Mostly, where are his shots coming from now? If we start him, he's gonna be next to 3 shoot first guys in Randle, DSJ, and RJ. He's not taking shots from RJ, he's the 3rd pick. Randle's being paid 23 million so he gets priority too. And I don't think DSJ is gonna sacrifice shots for Knox, nor should he. And with guys like Morris and Portis coming off the bench looking to get paid in FA next year, they're not gonna want to sacrifice for him either. In theory this makes Knox more efficient, but in practice, I don't know. Plus now he's a full time SF, which means he's out of position on defense, so he might be just as bad if not worse. And he thinks Fiz was holding him accountable on that end, which is a pretty big red flag to me.

I'm a believer in trends. Bad rookie season is a bad rookie season, bad sophomore season maybe there's extenuating circumstances, but if you're still in the same place by year 3, that's when you've past the sunk cost point.

i don't think knox is starting this year. i can't imagine morris came here without a starting guarantee. he knew there would be backlash by going back on his word. he didn't do that for a backup role. as a starter he might turn this opportunity into more money. and they're not benching randle or mitch. for a rookie he actually shot the 3 well. better than the 2 guys who were vying for rookie of the year. so that's where he'll get his points probably. his defense will likely still be bad. he might be a little better in the paint but i wouldn't expect much. but as long as he hits the 3 at a decent clip he'll make it to the next year. there is a lot of competition though for bench roles. shoot too badly and he might actually sit for awhile next year. i don't think he'll get the same leeway he did as a rook.

I don't think Knox starts either. Pretty sure he'll be in the rotation though.

Pretty obvious starting 5:
PG: DSJr
SG: RJ
SF: Morris
PF: Randle
C: Mitch.

I THINK the first sub is Mitch out, to preserve fouls and stamina, and Knox in, with Randle sliding to C and Morris to PF. Fiz is drooling to play Randle as a small ball 5 and Randle and Morris get max minutes this way

Next easy substitutions
SG: Trier
PG Payton

Perry has a history of making sure PG's he brings in, play. Also, Payton is just better all around than Frank.

That's 8.

Now the harder part. Obviously now Randle and Morris need some rest. (Also, the order of these subs can change etc, it's just a guestimate)

I say Portis subs in for "Randle" for a few minutes. I think Gibson dresses most games but is really around "just in case" or for very particular matchups. I put Randle in quotes as since Portis can function as a 4/5, he may sub in for Randle, but then see below.

When Morris goes out, Randle comes back in.

Randle and Morris will be #1 and #2 in minutes by FAR.

10th and 11th men will be 2 out of: Dotson, Ellington, Iggy, Frank. Whoever it is, won't play much, but it'll be the "10th man" who at least gets some semi regular minutes. Pretty easy to see team will be looking for 3 point shooting here. While that obviously would seem to mean Ellington, I figure Dotson or Iggy have a chance to edge him out. Both SG and SF are already two players deep, and RJ might see minutes at SF. 2 and 3 can be somewhat interchangeable, I'd guess Dotson. Ellington still dresses as 13th man.

Frank and Iggy should go to the G-League.

i see it pretty much the same way as far as who will be in the rotation. but i think knox might be in the group of 9th-11th man. everything else seems spot on. they'll probably give him the nod at first but he could fall in and out. i kind of think it's a shame if iggy doesn't get to play much this year. the way he shot in summer league it seems like he should get minutes and be developed. fiz will probably be constantly switching who those guys are to try to satisfy everyone with playing time.

i wonder who the first player to be upset about his minutes will be. there's too many guys who expect to play for someone not to.

[iLLmatic860]

If we keep Perry long term then we have nothing to worry about. Hes a smooth fella. He doesnt make panic moves. We in good shape.

I'd expect the messed up unexpected. Knicks will find a way. Perry will turn out to be not as good as we thought, he leaves for somewhere else, whatever.

By the way, as an aside, Perry and Mills are going to be held, in my mind, STRONGLY accountable for Fiz's performance this year. They had a chance to bring in nearly anyone to coach. Obviously there could be a coach a FO likes but that coach wants to go elsewhere. Like coach Bud. But they launched a so called "extensive" coaching search. Well, it's your big moment as POBO and GM, so I figure executives want an excellent coach, THE hands down, #1 best coach available, to turn around a franchise.

There choice was Fiz.

Fiz now has a legit NBA roster, while being light in "top end talent", goes 14 players deep; 15 if you count Bullock, back to 14 if you hate Frank.

A good coach should be able to take a team like that to 41 wins. Anything less, Fiz sucks. And then by extension, Perry and Mills too, because they picked him.

I think 41 wins is a pretty high bar, especially being that in the NBA you kind of need top end talent to even be average

I like Perry's approach in that we're keeping our draft capital, picking high ceiling somewhat project players, and that he's treating cap space as an asset instead of handing out 4 year deals like candy. My concern is, can he build a cohesive unit from what we have? Because if we're trying to win games next year, in terms of roster construction, the moves don't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think we signed a bad player last year, and if we did it's only a 1 year deal, but I can't say the pieces all fit, especially with adding Randle to DSJ and RJ means you have 3 guys who are primarily on ball scorers, with limited shooting in the starting lineup, and Mitch is a non factor shooting, so our spacing is gonna suck. We probably would have been better saving the cap and just bringing in Morris to start

If teams like Clippers and Nets can win 40+ last year then we should be able to. But thats if Fiz is actually a good coach.

[DOT]

I'd expect the messed up unexpected. Knicks will find a way. Perry will turn out to be not as good as we thought, he leaves for somewhere else, whatever.

By the way, as an aside, Perry and Mills are going to be held, in my mind, STRONGLY accountable for Fiz's performance this year. They had a chance to bring in nearly anyone to coach. Obviously there could be a coach a FO likes but that coach wants to go elsewhere. Like coach Bud. But they launched a so called "extensive" coaching search. Well, it's your big moment as POBO and GM, so I figure executives want an excellent coach, THE hands down, #1 best coach available, to turn around a franchise.

There choice was Fiz.

Fiz now has a legit NBA roster, while being light in "top end talent", goes 14 players deep; 15 if you count Bullock, back to 14 if you hate Frank.

A good coach should be able to take a team like that to 41 wins. Anything less, Fiz sucks. And then by extension, Perry and Mills too, because they picked him.

I think 41 wins is a pretty high bar, especially being that in the NBA you kind of need top end talent to even be average

I like Perry's approach in that we're keeping our draft capital, picking high ceiling somewhat project players, and that he's treating cap space as an asset instead of handing out 4 year deals like candy. My concern is, can he build a cohesive unit from what we have? Because if we're trying to win games next year, in terms of roster construction, the moves don't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think we signed a bad player last year, and if we did it's only a 1 year deal, but I can't say the pieces all fit, especially with adding Randle to DSJ and RJ means you have 3 guys who are primarily on ball scorers, with limited shooting in the starting lineup, and Mitch is a non factor shooting, so our spacing is gonna suck. We probably would have been better saving the cap and just bringing in Morris to start

If teams like Clippers and Nets can win 40+ last year then we should be able to. But thats if Fiz is actually a good coach.

Clippers had actual talent though. Our current best offensive player (Randle) puts up similar per minute stats as Montrezl Harrell, who was their 4th or 5th best player last year

And Nets had a similar level of talent as us, but much better fitting pieces

We shouldn't expect 40 wins

[iLLmatic860]

I think 41 wins is a pretty high bar, especially being that in the NBA you kind of need top end talent to even be average

I like Perry's approach in that we're keeping our draft capital, picking high ceiling somewhat project players, and that he's treating cap space as an asset instead of handing out 4 year deals like candy. My concern is, can he build a cohesive unit from what we have? Because if we're trying to win games next year, in terms of roster construction, the moves don't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think we signed a bad player last year, and if we did it's only a 1 year deal, but I can't say the pieces all fit, especially with adding Randle to DSJ and RJ means you have 3 guys who are primarily on ball scorers, with limited shooting in the starting lineup, and Mitch is a non factor shooting, so our spacing is gonna suck. We probably would have been better saving the cap and just bringing in Morris to start

If teams like Clippers and Nets can win 40+ last year then we should be able to. But thats if Fiz is actually a good coach.

Clippers had actual talent though. Our current best offensive player (Randle) puts up similar per minute stats as Montrezl Harrell, who was their 4th or 5th best player last year

And Nets had a similar level of talent as us, but much better fitting pieces

We shouldn't expect 40 wins

I expect 35ish. Our ceiling is 40 wins tho

It all comes down to coaching as I said and Randle is easily better than Harrell. I would consider him our Tobias Harris. Even tho he got traded he was a big reason for there success early on.

[aq_ua]

Spoiler:

i don't think knox is starting this year. i can't imagine morris came here without a starting guarantee. he knew there would be backlash by going back on his word. he didn't do that for a backup role. as a starter he might turn this opportunity into more money. and they're not benching randle or mitch. for a rookie he actually shot the 3 well. better than the 2 guys who were vying for rookie of the year. so that's where he'll get his points probably. his defense will likely still be bad. he might be a little better in the paint but i wouldn't expect much. but as long as he hits the 3 at a decent clip he'll make it to the next year. there is a lot of competition though for bench roles. shoot too badly and he might actually sit for awhile next year. i don't think he'll get the same leeway he did as a rook.

I don't think Knox starts either. Pretty sure he'll be in the rotation though.

Pretty obvious starting 5:
PG: DSJr
SG: RJ
SF: Morris
PF: Randle
C: Mitch.

I THINK the first sub is Mitch out, to preserve fouls and stamina, and Knox in, with Randle sliding to C and Morris to PF. Fiz is drooling to play Randle as a small ball 5 and Randle and Morris get max minutes this way

Next easy substitutions
SG: Trier
PG Payton

Perry has a history of making sure PG's he brings in, play. Also, Payton is just better all around than Frank.

That's 8.

Now the harder part. Obviously now Randle and Morris need some rest. (Also, the order of these subs can change etc, it's just a guestimate)

I say Portis subs in for "Randle" for a few minutes. I think Gibson dresses most games but is really around "just in case" or for very particular matchups. I put Randle in quotes as since Portis can function as a 4/5, he may sub in for Randle, but then see below.

When Morris goes out, Randle comes back in.

Randle and Morris will be #1 and #2 in minutes by FAR.

10th and 11th men will be 2 out of: Dotson, Ellington, Iggy, Frank. Whoever it is, won't play much, but it'll be the "10th man" who at least gets some semi regular minutes. Pretty easy to see team will be looking for 3 point shooting here. While that obviously would seem to mean Ellington, I figure Dotson or Iggy have a chance to edge him out. Both SG and SF are already two players deep, and RJ might see minutes at SF. 2 and 3 can be somewhat interchangeable, I'd guess Dotson. Ellington still dresses as 13th man.

Frank and Iggy should go to the G-League.

i see it pretty much the same way as far as who will be in the rotation. but i think knox might be in the group of 9th-11th man. everything else seems spot on. they'll probably give him the nod at first but he could fall in and out. i kind of think it's a shame if iggy doesn't get to play much this year. the way he shot in summer league it seems like he should get minutes and be developed. fiz will probably be constantly switching who those guys are to try to satisfy everyone with playing time.

i wonder who the first player to be upset about his minutes will be. there's too many guys who expect to play for someone not to.

Hard to imagine we won’t be involved in a trade somewhere during the season. Personally, I’m expecting some combination of Portis, Dotson, Ellington and Frank to be on the move by the deadline. Too much money to tie up in guys are destined for minor roles if carried into next season.

[moocow007]

Yeah I can't see this entire team making it through the season. Doesn't make sense. The Knicks may not have a superstar but what they have is too deep a roster. At some point someone is not going to be happy about playing time and ask for a trade. And I would hope that part of the plan is to indeed do that (trade the depth that they have over accumulated).

[GONYK]

I think 41 wins is a pretty high bar, especially being that in the NBA you kind of need top end talent to even be average

I like Perry's approach in that we're keeping our draft capital, picking high ceiling somewhat project players, and that he's treating cap space as an asset instead of handing out 4 year deals like candy. My concern is, can he build a cohesive unit from what we have? Because if we're trying to win games next year, in terms of roster construction, the moves don't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think we signed a bad player last year, and if we did it's only a 1 year deal, but I can't say the pieces all fit, especially with adding Randle to DSJ and RJ means you have 3 guys who are primarily on ball scorers, with limited shooting in the starting lineup, and Mitch is a non factor shooting, so our spacing is gonna suck. We probably would have been better saving the cap and just bringing in Morris to start

If teams like Clippers and Nets can win 40+ last year then we should be able to. But thats if Fiz is actually a good coach.

Clippers had actual talent though. Our current best offensive player (Randle) puts up similar per minute stats as Montrezl Harrell, who was their 4th or 5th best player last year

And Nets had a similar level of talent as us, but much better fitting pieces

We shouldn't expect 40 wins

The Nets also had an actual system and relative roster consistency

[K_ick_God]

What are the odds of two Frank Nitties.

[mpharris36]

Yeah I can't see this entire team making it through the season. Doesn't make sense. The Knicks may not have a superstar but what they have is too deep a roster. At some point someone is not going to be happy about playing time and ask for a trade. And I would hope that part of the plan is to indeed do that (trade the depth that they have over accumulated).

I think we currently have a younger less talented team than that Denver nuggets team after the melo trade. They were super deep after that trade and could play a lot of different lineups and had a talented bench. I don’t think we are that good which could cause some issues because winning quiets playing time talk. If we don’t get off to a good start vets and young guys will want minutes and that might start to overwhelm fiz

[taj2133]

Yeah I can't see this entire team making it through the season. Doesn't make sense. The Knicks may not have a superstar but what they have is too deep a roster. At some point someone is not going to be happy about playing time and ask for a trade. And I would hope that part of the plan is to indeed do that (trade the depth that they have over accumulated).

I think we currently have a younger less talented team than that Denver nuggets team after the melo trade. They were super deep after that trade and could play a lot of different lineups and had a talented bench. I don’t think we are that good which could cause some issues because winning quiets playing time talk. If we don’t get off to a good start vets and young guys will want minutes and that might start to overwhelm fiz

I think the knicks can sneak in the playoffs i think the top 6 teams in east are sixers,bucks,pacers,celtics,nets, and magic. I don't think raptors will be good this year i don't see them going to playoffs to no kawi leonard and danny green big losses. I don't see jimmy butler taking heat to the playoffs he has to much drama. Atlanta, Charlotte, and wizards are going to be tanking for wiseman then that leaves the knicks and bulls for the 7 and 8 seeds. The magic also have question about there point guard rotation if fultz is ever going to get healthy they might have to make trade for kris dunn or frank nitkinia just in case fultz is not healthy.

[god shammgod]

the east is so bad, a team with 38 wins might make the playoffs this year. so you never know.

[moocow007]

Yeah I can't see this entire team making it through the season. Doesn't make sense. The Knicks may not have a superstar but what they have is too deep a roster. At some point someone is not going to be happy about playing time and ask for a trade. And I would hope that part of the plan is to indeed do that (trade the depth that they have over accumulated).

I think we currently have a younger less talented team than that Denver nuggets team after the melo trade. They were super deep after that trade and could play a lot of different lineups and had a talented bench. I don’t think we are that good which could cause some issues because winning quiets playing time talk. If we don’t get off to a good start vets and young guys will want minutes and that might start to overwhelm fiz

Yeah I can see that happening. It's the main reason I questioned the amount of players they signed. There is a point where you have too many players. The Knicks are IMO past that point.

[Fat Kat]

Yeah I can't see this entire team making it through the season. Doesn't make sense. The Knicks may not have a superstar but what they have is too deep a roster. At some point someone is not going to be happy about playing time and ask for a trade. And I would hope that part of the plan is to indeed do that (trade the depth that they have over accumulated).

I think we currently have a younger less talented team than that Denver nuggets team after the melo trade. They were super deep after that trade and could play a lot of different lineups and had a talented bench. I don’t think we are that good which could cause some issues because winning quiets playing time talk. If we don’t get off to a good start vets and young guys will want minutes and that might start to overwhelm fiz

Yeah I can see that happening. It's the main reason I questioned the amount of players they signed. There is a point where you have too many players. The Knicks are IMO past that point.

Yep. Unless Perry is very active, early in the trade market, Fiz is gonna have a long hard season. It’s unavoidable.

[Capn'O]

WTF Serbia?