2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[Fat]

thats not actually a good thing that our organization wont draft players because they are impatient and suck at dewvelopment.

thats not something to celebrate

I agree it’s not a good thing but how long do you keep going with these type of picks if you keep pushing them to the side. It makes sense if we actually gave them the minutes they needed and showed more patience but that’s not what we do. We need to start Drafting players we feel comfortable going forward with that can help now and later.

I can’t even remember the last Knick pick that remained on the Knicks at least 5 years. Maybe David lee if I had to take a guess? Come on that’s sad. Even then his greatest success wasn’t even with the Knicks it was when he was traded to the warriors lol.

Idk man

the last knicks draft pick to sign an extension was Charlie Ward....

[RHODEY]

Also the Knicks need to draft a player that’s in go Now mode. The last thing we need is another “well by year 3 he can be this guy” For starters these type of players the Knicks don’t do well with. Ntilkina is a prime example of that and so is knox. If your not where the Knicks want you to be say bye bye to your minutes as a player. The Knicks live in the moment They don’t stick to any kind of plans. Very poor player development organization

Cole, hailburton, maxey are players the Knicks need to be looking at if they don’t land in the top 3.

thats not actually a good thing that our organization wont draft players because they are impatient and suck at dewvelopment.

thats not something to celebrate

I agree it’s not a good thing but how long do you keep going with these type of picks if you keep pushing them to the side. It makes sense if we actually gave them the minutes they needed and showed more patience but that’s not what we do. We need to start Drafting players we feel comfortable going forward with that can help now and later.

I can’t even remember the last Knick pick that remained on the Knicks at least 5 years. Maybe David lee if I had to take a guess? Come on that’s sad. Even then his greatest success wasn’t even with the Knicks it was when he was traded to the warriors lol.

You only need to hit once to make a major difference. We hit with Ewing. Halfway hit with Zinger. Philly hit with Embiid and Simmons missed on Fultz and a few others but so what?

[Worst_to_First]

The Frank and Haliburton comparisons seem lazy to me comparing their stats and playing styles.

Frank is a poor mans Patrick Beverley. While Haliburton is more of a Lonzo/Kidd type player.

How do you assess Halliburton’s ball handling? Last I looked I think it is something that he still has to tighten more.

Not saying that he won’t improve but I would be more comfortable putting him at the 2. Anyway more playmakers on the floor the better.

[3toheadmelo]

The Frank and Haliburton comparisons seem lazy to me comparing their stats and playing styles.

Frank is a poor mans Patrick Beverley. While Haliburton is more of a Lonzo/Kidd type player.

How do you assess Halliburton’s ball handling? Last I looked I think it is something that he still has to tighten more.

Not saying that he won’t improve but I would be more comfortable putting him at the 2. Anyway more playmakers on the floor the better.

Yeah his handle is pretty basic. But the fact that he is a great playmaker with such a basic handle is very intriguing. If he improves his handle he can be really good. I already seen him pull off some nice step back jumpers so there’s potential there.

I think there is more upside for him at the 1 imo.

[mpharris36]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilize that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

[Capn'O]

He's a SuperFrank. SuperFrank. He's super Franky.

[3toheadmelo]

He's a SuperFrank. SuperFrank. He's super Franky.

So he’s SGA sign me up

[thebuzzardman]

He's a SuperFrank. SuperFrank. He's super Franky.

[Zenzibar]

If no LaMelo, this is my point guard until further notice. Just give me the point guard maker, Kenny Atkinson.

Watch on YouTube

RJ says Frank's his favorite back court mate. Young man is a terror on defense and getting better, why are we sweating it.
Then just get the best player available in this year's draft.

[jvsimonetti0514]

What I'm about to bring up could be a semantic argument, but I think the player the Knicks truly need isn't a PG, but ANY player who is capable of breaking down the defense from the perimeter regularly and is able to get his own shot off, and in, around that. Obviously, if that same player can shoot well, all the better. Basically describing a franchise wing OR PG.

That's their dire need right now, unless somehow RJ becomes that kind of player. But short of that, an upgrade at PG, either in reliable scoring/running the offense, but really, one who is better at both than Frank or DSJr

Buzz gets it. We still need that primary ball handler. It doesn’t matter if he comes from the PG position or not. We just need a guy that’s going to be able to create a shot consistently. I just don’t see haliburkina being that guy. If we’re not prioritizing that in this draft that’s fine but I hope the fan base realize he’s a souped up Frank.

That's why I'm hoping the Knicks get boom\bust LaMelo, since he could be that. But I also like Haliburton or even Hayes as iterative steps. Sometimes a team can't upgrade fully, but like a half step better at a position. This is where luck(draft order) and skill come into play (ability to move up in the draft, scout correctly who drops etc)

We still need top line talent. I definitely thought RJ had a good rookie year but our most impactful player is still a rim running center. It’s not even that I think Haliburton is a bad player, he’s just the worst fit for the Knicks out of all the guards in the draft. If he ended up with the Bulls or the Hawks, I think he could thrive. Now if the plan is to go get CP3, that’s a whole different story. Put him at the two between RJ and Paul and let him play to his strengths while developing his handles and we’d be in business.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilze that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

This is why the SGA comps don’t make sense to me. I definitely can buy the Lonzo comps but SGA is an attacking guard. As a rookie he averaged 10 drives per game. That’s one less drive per game than Kyrie. Last season he was 16 Per game. That’s good enough to put him in the top 10. I can’t track down drives per game in the NCAA but I doubt Haliburton’s number would be that high.

[WargamesX]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilze that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

You know who still runs a lot of the triangle right? GS and Former Bulls HC Tom Thibodeau

[HarthorneWingo]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilze that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

You know who still runs a lot of the triangle right? GS and Former Bulls HC Tom Thibodeau

I thought the Spurs do too

[Ball4life32]

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

eh not necessarily. for example I liked Trae. They're saying this Tyrell Terry is a poor man's Trae. That's nice and all but I don't want a "poor man's" version of a good player with my top 10 pick I want the actual good player

I mean you are stretching it a bit with Tyrell Terry. You consider him a poor mans Trae when he has no handle and very minimal play making skills.

Those are two huge skill gaps that make Trae a genius offensive player. Sidebar I do think it will be difficult for Trae Young to be a consistant winner in the NBA. For example he and John Collins put up huge offensive years and they still ended up a with a worse record then up. Defense matters.

Cole and DSJ skill gaps are very close. Tyrell isn't in the same area code as Trae other then them both being able to shoot from range.

But John Collins was suspended for 25 gms....Hawks went 4-21 when he was gone. When both played Hawks finished 12-12 in their last 24 games.

And when Hawks really struggled they had a worse ORTG then DRTG. They weren’t struggling because of just defense despite this narrative.

Agree with you on the comparisons though.

[robillionaire]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilze that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

This is why the SGA comps don’t make sense to me. I definitely can buy the Lonzo comps but SGA is an attacking guard. As a rookie he averaged 10 drives per game. He averaged one less drive per game than Kyrie. Last season he was 16 Per game. That’s good enough to put him in the top 10. I can’t track down drives per game in the NCAA but I doubt Haliburton’s number would be that high.

I don’t know about the drive metic but Haliburton played 36.7 mpg and only averaged 2 FT attempts per game with a .184 FTA rate (ft attempts / fg attempts) , SGA in college averaged 4.7 ft attempts in 33 mpg (5.0 per 36) and .464 FTA rate so that is more than enough to validate that theory imo.

Frank’s is .172

[god shammgod]

hali-no-burst-on

[CoreyVillains]

Read on Twitter

[rajajackal]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilze that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

he's great fit with ntilikina and barrett imo. positionless 1-3, but in an sensible way. 3 solid BBIQ facilitators, none particularly ball-dominant. 3 distinct areas of elite talent (shooter, defender, bully). plug another shooter at 4 (not a black hole like randle) and run the offense through RJ. it's not an overnight contender, but it'd likely produce fluid basketball by young players that i would actually enjoy watching. that's how the nets got their hands on KD/kyrie (for better or worse)

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

wtf did i watch

[mpharris36]

Haliburton also made like 80% of his corner 3's which is bananas...he was something like 11/14 from corner 3's. So you def want to utilze that skill.

over 66% (2/3rds) of his shots are jumpers. With about only 18% of his shots coming near the basket so he will def need to play with one or two ball handlers because he is not someone who consistently is aggressive in getting into the paint.

He would actually make a fantastic triangle PG

he's great fit with ntilikina and barrett imo. positionless 1-3, but in an sensible way. 3 solid BBIQ facilitators, none particularly ball-dominant. 3 distinct areas of elite talent (shooter, defender, bully). plug another shooter at 4 (not a black hole like randle) and run the offense through RJ. it's not an overnight contender, but it'd likely produce fluid basketball by young players that i would actually enjoy watching. that's how the nets got their hands on KD/kyrie (for better or worse)

I think if you had a floor spacer like a Bertans at the 4 it could work with Mitch at he 5.

But my concern would be you would have a below avg athlete at the 1-3. RJ is your best slasher and even he's struggles to get by his defender with quickness and Hali and Frank aren't those guys either. We would have to rely on player movement for sure and all 3 are intellegent smart basketball players. But I would have concern about the shot creation from them in terms of consistently breaking down the defense.