Breaking: Tom Fired

[thebuzzardman]

Look at Carlos Mendoza for the Mets. A young guy more open to data but still has a good feel of the players but is an extension of Stearns and the FO. I'm sure our built out analytical team was frustrated we played like Deuce with the starters less Hart for like 80 minutes all year...like zero sample size for a true 5-out lineup.

More experimenting in the regular season to see different lineup combinations and contributions from everyone.

Right. Mendoza is awesome. Smart. Born in the last 45 years.

The analytics team was probably screaming about the starters playing 700 more mins than other teams starters across the league. I feel like they were ignored entirely.

I'm warming up to the idea of Bryant to be honest.

i don't know enough about bryant's coaching strategy/principles, but it's probably more modern than thibs. the recent videos shared still showed a LOT of read and react, which is player-dependent and frankly thibslamic. but i did see a lot more emphasis on player movement, which LEADS to ball movement. i do love that. even as a thibs fan, i hated seeing guys so stationary in the sets. even if the ball isn't moving that much, player movement creates opportunity in the set defenses. if JB can get them to move and trust, i'd be happy to see it.

what i do know about JB is that he's seen as a stabilizing force in relationships and communication. that excites me. even if thibs had good ideas he couldn't get the players to execute, that matters. i've been vocal about that too even as a thibs fan.

bryant knowing the team so well would give me a lot of peace in this process. and i'd hope he brings us all we need to be better.

Adding Mo Cheeks to the coaching staff an early indication that Knicks were looking to move on from Thibs and might pivot to Bryant.

Because the wise old head guy not directly affiliated with Thibs is already present to be his asst coach.

Just a thought.

[Jay10]

Read on Twitter

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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought they had a plan but if they really have no idea who the next coach will be and are still searching then that’s not a good sign

Don't fall for it. Although they had a million interviews the first time around, everyone knew they had already made up their mind that Thibs would get the job.

This would just be Leon helping agents by allowing them to use the Knicks interviewing their client as a way to get other teams interested, or it could just be to allow their client to get reps at interviewing for a job later on.

Also, if Leon schedules multiple interviews it's just the front office killing time and not wanting to be a distraction from the Finals. The next Knicks' head coach has already been chosen and that is why Thibodeau is no longer here.

[NY2k1]

If the front office had to step in to force Mitch into the starting line up and for him use the bench, he was already fired weeks ago unfortunately.

Yeah, if this is true, then he was done weeks ago, except maybe short of making the finals and/or winning it all.

[2010]

i strongly feel its going to be Bryant

that's my early hope. but what gives you the confidence? just a feeling?

Bryant is a finalist for the job in Phoenix. He’s not in position to wait for the Knicks to embark on a long search with an extensive list of candidates.

[The KnicksFix]

Who tf am I supposed to yell about now that thibs is gone?
wtf am I supposed to do now?
I’m lost for the first time I have no direction

For years I was looking at the draft and tanking seasons
Then Thibs was in my crosshairs

There’s nothing left to yell about…
Well damn

[Adelheid]

i strongly feel its going to be Bryant

that's my early hope. but what gives you the confidence? just a feeling?

if it was just one of the rethreads like jenkins/malone/etc, i dont think the knicks would have bothered to fire thibs, and most likely, you guys would have just nodded to such an assertion.

knicks dont make quick decisions like that. They like taking their sweet time unmindful of the results. But this time, they hastily axed thibs, its as if they are telling all prospection applicants and in-the-middle-of-an-interview applicants that they are now have a hc job opening. Perhaps maybe one of the guys they are eyeing, is in middle of being snagged...

[mpharris36]

i strongly feel its going to be Bryant

that's my early hope. but what gives you the confidence? just a feeling?

Bryant is a finalist for the job in Phoenix. He’s not in position to wait for the Knicks to embark on a long search with an extensive list of candidates.

If rumors are true PHX picked Ott.

[Wildcat]

Thibs just called another iso Brunson followed by drop coverage on d, we just gave up another 3

To his credit, drop coverage seemed to be his method early in the system, then he changed it, and KAY never adjusted.

[FrozenEnvelope]

i strongly feel its going to be bryant

Since too many are saying it won't be Malone, I think Bryant is the front runner. He knows the organization, they know him and it means Rick get's to stay.

And that worries me. Not sure if this is the job for a noobie but you have to trust Leon.

Expect the media to KILL this move though.

[NY2k1]

Read on Twitter

The firing isn’t shocking but him being completely out of the organization is.

To be fair, that might be more of a Thibs decision to not be involved around the organization in another capacity (at least right now)

[SelbyCobra]

i strongly feel its going to be Bryant

that's my early hope. but what gives you the confidence? just a feeling?

Bryant is a finalist for the job in Phoenix. He’s not in position to wait for the Knicks to embark on a long search with an extensive list of candidates.

If the Knicks are really serious about Bryant they've already back-channeled the hell out of the situation, and if Bryant is into it there's no way he's giving up even the chance at it and taking the PHX job - one of the worst roster situations in the sport.

[Carl_Karlson]

How TF is Spo even coming up? Dude is signed into the 2030s. I’d like him to come in but I’m not seeing how

[thebuzzardman]

I was told that Rose would already have someone ready to step in if he was going to fire Thibs but now there is a long list of candidates and an extensive search going to happen?

Once again the media is as clueless as the people who believe them... I'd say you people should be ashamed of yourselves but I've seen what you post...you have no shame.

I think this FO operates with definitive ideas/moves in mind. I doubt they fired Thibs without a strong lead candidate. Not sure what the media is doing or what the Knicks are feeding them for optics.

It's also possible the Knicks FO has a larger list it's picking, something along the lines of 5-7 candidates. They are probably already mostly comfortable with any one of them but might be looking to see who emerges. The fact that the Knicks fired Thibs quickly I think speaks to getting a shot at Bryant before he picks Phoenix but could also just be about getting first dibs on the coaching carousel. Or a little of both.

Not sure, but I lean towards it's already Bryant, the rest is eyewash.

[BKlutch]

about the bold. thank you. that means a lot. the mod team wants the forum to look and feel more like that. and it's just how i'm cut personally. i don't look at many things in life in absolutes. and i genuinely try to understand differing points of view. i think polarization is harmful to communities. and for me, it's easier to talk ball knowing folks are going to be measured and not completely agenda driven. nation of thibslam was a tongue-in-cheek joke for me that i never wanted anyone to feel like was trolling or confrontational. just kind of owning my unpopular support in a peaceful/respectful way. i think posting like that is why i was scouted to join the mod team, so i try to kind of model the behavior i want to see.

(we're all human and fallible. i know i've fallen short and taken bait at times. but i also feel confident that i come to this place every day trying to respect the whole. so, again, that means a lot and i think the rest of the mod team appreciates it too.)

i grieve thibs, but i'm a knicks fan. i'm just hoping the next coach is good and good for the team so we can keep moving forward and get this ring before too many more of us die. bryant excites me now that thibs is gone because i assume he would bring an ideal balance.

I'm glad you liked the bold part. One of the best things about this board is learning more than I already knew by reading what other smart folks contribute. The attitude that it's good to dominate a discussion to show off our debating skills or ability to manipulate others is detrimental to having great discussions. You and others chose to move us in a better direction. There's less need to consider whether an opinion will bring a torrent of targeted responses. I greatly prefer posting what I believe, within the bounds of community rules and decorum, of couse. Thanks.

Honestly I feel sorry for Thibs man
Had he just made a few changes he would still be here
He was stubborn to a fault
I was his biggest critic, but I knew he had the ability to be great not just good. I always thought he wasn’t cut in the same fabric as pop and spo. But a ring would have put him in that rare air.
Now it’s just sad to see that old dood go

The one thing in life that’s constant is change.

I'm with you, Fix.

[Adelheid]

Ott has michigan connections with the suns owner, if anything, that could be the clincher

[thebuzzardman]

Kolek stepping into the Payne minutes seems like an easy decision. You save $3mm in veteran minimum salary and hopefully keep Delon Wright as your third string. Payne's salary slot can go to Shamet on a full season deal. With those moves, the roster would be:

C: Mitch / Hukporti
PF: KAT / Hart
SF: OG / Shamet / Dadiet
SG: Bridges / Deuce
PG: Brunson / Kolek / Wright

That's $202mm give or take, and roughly $6mm under the second apron.

yeah. i believe part of the reason payne was there was to let him see what a backup looks like, which i imagine is important.

and trying to keep it back on track to the thibs firing and not derail into a kolek lovefest, next coach should probably feel confident enough to play him there now. as big a kolek fan as i am, i thought he had a ways to go after those first couple spurts he had. there's a difference between adjusting to pro speed and a continuation of the concerns i had about him at marquette. so watching him get embarrassed a few times i was kinda hoping they'd pull him in, take him back to the lab, and bring him back out when ready. i think thibs did that with hukporti and he also came back looking a lot better. i think if he didn't get hurt, he was on-track for backup C minutes. but thibs kinda had to keep KAT and mitch covering those.

I agree - from a Thibs perspective, the rookies/sophomores were probably inevitably headed to salary filler in a trade land. I raised this in the trade thread, but in this NBA CBA environment, it's so critical that players on cheap (i.e. rookie) contracts contribute significantly in the rotation. It's now financially impossible to build a team entirely with veteran contracts, at least have decent quality 1 through 12. If there was one major question for me going into next year with Thibs, it would be how we were going to cure the bench depth issue without Thibs trusting a couple of young players to step up.

Really interesting point.

And there's some supposed Thibs/FO friction with Aller and Aller might have wound up being another voice against Thibs, in that Thibs wasn't developing the youth fast enough in the radically changed CBA environment.

Even though Thibs has done fairly well developing the youth.

[thebuzzardman]

yeah. i believe part of the reason payne was there was to let him see what a backup looks like, which i imagine is important.

and trying to keep it back on track to the thibs firing and not derail into a kolek lovefest, next coach should probably feel confident enough to play him there now. as big a kolek fan as i am, i thought he had a ways to go after those first couple spurts he had. there's a difference between adjusting to pro speed and a continuation of the concerns i had about him at marquette. so watching him get embarrassed a few times i was kinda hoping they'd pull him in, take him back to the lab, and bring him back out when ready. i think thibs did that with hukporti and he also came back looking a lot better. i think if he didn't get hurt, he was on-track for backup C minutes. but thibs kinda had to keep KAT and mitch covering those.

I agree - from a Thibs perspective, the rookies/sophomores were probably inevitably headed to salary filler in a trade land. I raised this in the trade thread, but in this NBA CBA environment, it's so critical that players on cheap (i.e. rookie) contracts contribute significantly in the rotation. It's now financially impossible to build a team entirely with veteran contracts, at least have decent quality 1 through 12. If there was one major question for me going into next year with Thibs, it would be how we were going to cure the bench depth issue without Thibs trusting a couple of young players to step up.

i think one or two of them was going to get into the rotation, barring big changes, of course. but we also have some salaries to use in a deal, so it's hard to say and i'll reserve judgment until FA season.

i do think thibs was going to play hukporti. he likes his bigs and the kid made evident progress before his untimely injury. i was bummed about that. he also might be a mitch replacement plan if we won't/can't pay him again or need to use his expiring salary in a deal.

if we made drastic changes and some vets were gone, i think mccullar was lowkey josh hart insurance for thibs if we had to use hart's salary for something else we needed. kolek might have been able to take on the backup PG role and spare us from spending on backup PGs, as discussed. dadiet is still only 19 years old, so he might have always been in for another year on the pine. ****. worse things to be doing. better than being in the ratiopharm ulm rotation.

This FO seems to plan ahead in terms of back filling roles in the event of future trades.

[Kidknick!]

Heard some Nets fans and national media lovers whining about the Knicks hiring another coach.... 7 coaches in 10 years.... all that blah blah blah blah.

Well guess what:

Nets Coaches since 2010-11:

Avery Johnson
PJ Carlesimo (Interim)
Jason Kidd
Lionel Hollins
Tony Brown (Interim)
Kenny Atkinson
Jacque Vaughn (Interim)
Steve Nash
Jacque Vaughn
Kevin Ollie (Interim)
Jordi Fernandez

Knicks Coaches since 2010-11

Mike D'Antoni
MIke Woodson
Derek Fisher
Kurt Rambis (Interim)
Jeff Hornacek
David Fizdale
Mike Miller (Interim)
Tom Thibodeau

GFY Nets Fans

Don't concern yourself with that JOBBER Franchise. Let's laugh at them when they fail to get anything with those trash picks they got for Mikal. Lmao.

[Jay10]

Jay would be fun

Read on Twitter

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Udoka is available?

from a character perspective i have grave concerns. from a basketball perspective, i mess with him. he is kinda thibslamic. more nefarious/extremist version.

minutes police would hate him. he's an 8-9-man rotation if you're lucky type. will go 7 in the regular season without blinking for a chance at a W.

Once I saw Ime Udoka's quote about telling his players to be physical, I said too bad he can't be the next Knicks head coach after Thibodeau.

"When people start complaining about foul calls or crying about physicality, you've done your job. That's the first step in winning the battle. So I told my team, when this team starts crying about it, up the intensity, up the aggressiveness, and make the refs adjust to you." - Ime Udoka during interview with The Athletic

[Kidknick!]

Let us not forget how Thibs treated and viewed Brock Aller, the REAL MVP who will work his cap magic and get us the pieces we need. He's the ULTIMATE WEAPON.