Draftexpress drops Mudiay down to pick #6 today

[NoLayupRule]

For all we know Phils board can look like this:
Towns
Russel
WCS
Winslow
Okafor
Priz
Mudiay
Mario

and if it did, it would make sense in theory to trade down 1-2 spots and grab one of WCS or Winslow

well Id take a pretty sizable bet that Phil's board does not look like that
or anyone's really

in todays league two positions are key and expensive

Bigs and PGs

Russell and Mudiay will go top 5 for sure
Okafor and Towns will probably go top 2 but top 4 for sure
the only x-factors are WCS and Mario moving up IMO

but you are right, things get crazy and you never know

[Capn'O]

why in the world would Wade leave Miami and his 16 mil per to come here for less?

More years at a high rate.

ok, I don't see NY giving Wade many years on a deal but let me ask you then why would we want to give Wade a 4 year high salary deal?

Hes breaking down at an alarming rate as is

Why not? Giving out long, pricy contracts to vets past their prime is what NYK does. I think he's got a few more years as a very good player in the league. His #s this year were actually better than the previous year. And, at least on paper, that lineup is very complementary. It looks like a classic Phil Jackson lineup with long defenders, shooter/defender at the PG, slashers, midrange specialists, finishers, big butt in the post...

Then you have Melo/Wade as a lure instead of just Melo. Their personalities complement each other with Wade as the more vocal player and other leadership around Melo with the young cats. Cap space in upcoming years.



It's not what I would do... it's what I see happening with a WCS pick. We shall see.

[LuxTheGoat]

Someone post some WCS stats please. I liked him in the one or two college games I saw him in. Not sure if he's a good pick at 4 though. And I know he's probably more of a defensive and intangibles kind of guy. Still wanna see some stats though.

[mpharris36]

theoretically if you attach Calderon and the 4th to move down a few spots and acquire 5, 6, or 7. You should be able to get the player you want and another play/pick and use less cap room.

I am sure that would be the theory behind it.

Yeah - moving Calderon in the process of sliding down a few spots would seem the ideal move BUT if we can slide down and get a legit starting caliber player in the process --- why not add that player regardless if it reduces your overall cap. If the asset fits and is starter material on a decent deal lets do it.

In a trade down I don't think we are looking at losing our 2015 pick altogether for a straight player swap (top player).
I think we are sliding down a few slots and picking up a decent (younger) asset for our trouble.

That said I don't want to just take on $13M of T-Lawson and #6 in exchange for #4 --- we'd have to offset that salary we are taking back at least most of it.[/quote]

I assume a trade down would have to make sense. Maybe it is to #5, #6, or #7. Maybe it is Faried or Lawson involved but they can be shipped to a 3rd team like say

Knicks trade: #4 and Calderon
Nuggets trade: #7 and Lawson
Jazz trade: #12 and a lower player or 2nd round pick

Knicks get: #7, and #12
Nuggets get: #4 and a smaller player/2nd round pick from Utah), and Calderon
Utah gets: Lawson

Draft Goes:
1. Towns
2. Okafor
3. Russell
4. Mudiay (traded rights to Nuggets)
5. Porzingis
6. WCS
7. Winslow (trade rights to knicks)

than at 12 we can go after Payne/Myles Turner/Lyles possibly.

We could come away with Winslow and Payne possibly and reduce our cap space by 7 million (calderon contract).

[mpharris36]

We have to find out what players other teams covet at no. 4 and then hopefully trade down, still get our guy plus obtain a vet and/or a pick back.

That's the play.

ok i love it.

Knicks trade the #4 pick(Winslow or Porzingis) + Calderon

for

#5 pick Mudiay


holy crap if phil pulls that off he is a freaking genius, we could get Aldridge + Gasol. any reason orlando wouldn't do it?

they could think the knicks would just take Mudiay at 4 and winslow or porzingis will fall to them). What needs to happen is Phil needs to put the fear in god in the orlando GM that we could trade back to 6 or 7 and the team jumping up could take Porzingis which orlando could really really want.

then you could set up a smaller #4 for #5 swap. With calderon going to the magic and non guaranteed deals coming the knicks way.

[Greenie]

WCS could be our guy
its very possible

it would also be very frustrating

You would end up loving him...

[mpharris36]

We're trading down for Trill and you all will like it.

If that happens, prepare yourselves for this lineup:

New Gallo
Wade
Melo
WCS
Monroe

Interesting lineup

no floor spacing. No team would respect our shooting.

[Zooropa]

WCS could be our guy
its very possible

it would also be very frustrating

What if Phil swung a deal that got us WCS and Lyles?

That's a very intriguing 3-4-5 punch with Melo

[moocow007]

Someone post some WCS stats please. I liked him in the one or two college games I saw him in. Not sure if he's a good pick at 4 though. And I know he's probably more of a defensive and intangibles kind of guy. Still wanna see some stats though.

This year (his Junior year) he averaged 8.9ppg, 6.4rpg, 1.7bpg, 1.2spg, 1.0apg, 57%fg, 62%ft, 59%ts, 57%efg, 119.8ortg, 80.0drtg, 25.9mpg. Probably the biggest drop from the previous year is his bpg (went from 2.9 to 1.7 between last year and this year) but that likely has to do with the presence of Towns and Calipari using the more mobile WCS to guard further away from the basket.

[EchelonNYK]

The hate for Winslow is real.

For me he didn't even stick out on that Duke team until the championship game. A lot of people, included myself, only tuned in to watch Okafor.

[moocow007]

WCS could be our guy
its very possible

it would also be very frustrating

What if Phil swung a deal that got us WCS and Lyles?

That's a very intriguing 3-4-5 punch with Melo

I would prefer that he just take whomever is left from the top 4 and not try to get cute. Him starting 2 rookies? Not likely.

[moocow007]

We're trading down for Trill and you all will like it.

If that happens, prepare yourselves for this lineup:

New Gallo
Wade
Melo
WCS
Monroe

why in the world would Wade leave Miami and his 16 mil per to come here for less?

Can't the Knicks can offer him $18.9 million to start on a 4 year deal?

[mpharris36]

WCS could be our guy
its very possible

it would also be very frustrating

You would end up loving him...

probably not he is a space cadet.

[moocow007]

Things are going to get very interesting when the Lakers take Mudiay at #2

Then the same folks will be chirping that how the Lakers always get the best players.

[moocow007]

So should we be interested in Montrezl Harrell as well? There's no bigger competitor in college basketball than Harrell. Harrell is a warrior and he's a gym rat extraordinaire.

there is a difference of talent though. Of course you just don't take "hard workers". You have to obviously have a combination of both talent to be picked that high and potential.

I mean there is a reason Winslow is mocked to be a 4 to 7 guy in most drafts and Harrell is mocked to be in the early to mid 20's in most mocks.

Scouts and talent evaluators must see a large talent jump between the two, you don't? I don't think its fair to compare those too talent wise (and that is no knock on Harrell) I just think Winslow has more talent then you are suggesting. Enough to crack the top 5? That has yet to be determined. But "role" player is pretty harsh for him.

role player is appropriate. If you can't create your own shot then you are a role player or "complimentary" player if you like that word better. what happens when a good role player is not surrounded by all-stars? I will tell you what happens, you get Courtney lee in Houston/Celtics or Tayshaun Prince in Detroit after billups, sheed and rip left.

My problem with Justise is creating shots is considered a weakness for him, that means he has to get average at it, then we expect him to take another level and become great at it. probably not going to happen. his handles, creativity and mid-range are not good for a shooting guard which is what he will probably be forced to play in the nba.

I don't think for a second anyone doubts phil's ability to evaluate talent. If Phil drafts winslow because he thinks he can be great than that is fantastic. if he drafts him because melo likes him and he wants us to win sooner then I will be crushed. our franchise will be in the same position as Riley and the heat in 2016, trying to make a desperate pitch to a superstar instead of growing one of our own

Pretty much my take.

[mpharris36]

The hate for Winslow is real.

For me he didn't even stick out on that Duke team until the championship game. A lot of people, included myself, only tuned in to watch Okafor.

im surprised because he was arguably dukes most impactful player on both ends in the tourny. Now that always isn't the best thing because people might weigh tourny performance over a full season. But I find it hard to believe you watched duke and you didn't notice the impact Winslow had on that team.

[K_ick_God]

We have to find out what players other teams covet at no. 4 and then hopefully trade down, still get our guy plus obtain a vet and/or a pick back.

That's the play.

I think the problem with that whole approach is that it uses cap room. So unless we know who is or is not coming, I don't think we should trade the pick and use up valuable/limited cap room in that same transaction.

theoretically if you attach Calderon and the 4th to move down a few spots and acquire 5, 6, or 7. You should be able to get the player you want and another play/pick and use less cap room.

I am sure that would be the theory behind it.

The couple of problems I see are if the Magic trade up, they could take our player. No guarantee they wouldn't. The only reason they'd take Jose is if they genuinely think we'll take their player, so we can't say "Mudiay is off limits." That contradicts the bluff.

Also if Phil uses cap room in the draft, he has to be sure that he's going to use it on X and Y players. He basically has to have a commitment already from the agents of 2 big free agents. Then I'm okay with whatever. If we are going to snag one or two big fish, then the draft can be used to "work around" that primary free agency approach.

[kane]

before the draft there was a consensus on who the top 4 were! now that we dropped to 4 that went right out the window now its a top 3.... so glad we won those 2 games at the end of the year

[K_ick_God]

We have to find out what players other teams covet at no. 4 and then hopefully trade down, still get our guy plus obtain a vet and/or a pick back.

That's the play.

I think the problem with that whole approach is that it uses cap room. So unless we know who is or is not coming, I don't think we should trade the pick and use up valuable/limited cap room in that same transaction.

Don't we save some money by trading down?

Anyhow, signing a free agent cuts into our cap space too. It just depends who the vet is, what he can contribute and how much he contract is. We need to acquire talent be it through the draft, free agency and trades. If there isn't a player out there who is worth the value of his contract then we don't make that trade. Maybe we just trade down and get two picks in next years draft. I don't know. But the point is to parlay our no. 4 into additional assets while still getting our guy. It doesn't have to be a player and a pick. It could be two (or three) picks.

Yes but you only save a little sliding down a little. If Phil can somehow work:

Lawson
Green
Melo
Aldridge
Drafted Center?

I'm down!

[god shammgod]

If that happens, prepare yourselves for this lineup:

New Gallo
Wade
Melo
WCS
Monroe

Interesting lineup

Mind you, it's a prediction and not a recommendation. But that's the scenario I see unfolding from a WCS draft.

why is this familiar ?

p.s. we can't afford both monroe & wade. i told you it's gonna be pau gasol or taj gibson.