2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[Fat]

The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him

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i like wiseman but drafting a big when we have a huge hole at pg?

He didnt exactly show anything elite in the 3 college games that mitchell cant already do. Not to say he doesnt have the potential to be the next great big i just dont see the game changing skill set he'd bring to the team that puts him in the "must have" category. He's a safe pick none the least though. i dont feel its a pick thats really gonna give us that push we need and if he's not draining the long ball Or midrange at a respectable percentage you might as well just add him to the collection of bigs we have that need the ball around the rim to be truly effective =/

He showed mid range in college and was dominant in the paint tho. Mitch can’t do that. Mitch is just a rim runner. That’s the big difference between them.

I get we need a PG but we need the best player available. Like moocow and others have said, nobody on this team should stop us from drafting anybody. Wiseman has more star potential than all of the point guards. Just draft Kira Lewis with another pick or sign Fred van fleet. Or tank for a Pg next year. What’s the rush anyways? We gonna be ass for the next couple of years. Lol

I hate this mindset that we need to draft a point guard no matter what. The Knicks need star players. That should be the priority. This is the same argument I had with yall about Tatum. Many of you guys kept saying you did not want to draft Tatum because we need a point guard so bad. Even as going as far saying drafting Frank over Tatum should be the move Hell yall was on that same Bs with Garland last season and he’s terrible...

We dont need to draft a point guard no matter what but why not draft need + Potential if your in the knicks situation. What unicorn ish elite big man skillset does Wiseman come with that would change the dynamic of the knicks? if he looked like deandre ayton in his brief showcases id probably be more excited

if we want to go big man just draft obi toppin. Mitchell/Obi/Barret would probably do more damage on the court than BArret/Wiseman



wiseman is questionable pick but i wouldnt be mad at it either way.

[spree8]

What starting caliber PG are we getting via trade? Sure RJ can handle the rock more but having watched RJ for the year, is a pick and roll bigman really the missing ingredient to maximize his skills? The priority needs to be floor spacing, ball handling and perimeter play in the form of guards. Really the last thing we should be looking for right now is a rim running big that will rely on those very same things in order to succeed and we don't have that. Instead of looking to open up the floor like every team in the league has and continues to do, we are looking for different ways to shrink the floor and just play under the basket, it makes no sense whatsoever.

I don’t know what pg we can get thru trade or FA, but there are plenty available.. even if we need to just get a stopgap for the year until next draft. I did mention in the other post about trading Mitch for another lotto pick this year (GSW?). There are always options... just gotta have a creative Gm.

I wouldn’t say Wiseman is strictly just a pick and roll rim-running big... he’s capable of much more. I also didn’t say that Wiseman alone is the answer to maximizing RJ’s skills.

Drafting Wiseman doesn’t mean we can’t address the other concerns on the team, i.e. shooting and ball handling. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Drafting Wiseman doesn’t paralyze the team from being able to address any other needs.

At the cost of what? A top pick? Is Wiseman some can't miss player that we must get at all cost? I don't see him as that at all

I didn’t say that. I just said he’s the best prospect in the draft imo, and that if he’s there when we pick, we should take him.

[mpharris36]

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Mitchell Robinson was also hitting jumpers in high school.

High School highlight reals against kids 6 to 7 inches shorter with no chance of playing Div-1 ball and almost 50-60lbs lighter then a big man doesn't really show me anything.

[moocow007]

i like wiseman but drafting a big when we have a huge hole at pg?

He didnt exactly show anything elite in the 3 college games that mitchell cant already do. Not to say he doesnt have the potential to be the next great big i just dont see the game changing skill set he'd bring to the team that puts him in the "must have" category. He's a safe pick none the least though. i dont feel its a pick thats really gonna give us that push we need and if he's not draining the long ball Or midrange at a respectable percentage you might as well just add him to the collection of bigs we have that need the ball around the rim to be truly effective =/

He showed mid range in college and was dominant in the paint tho. Mitch can’t do that. Mitch is just a rim runner. That’s the big difference between them.

I get we need a PG but we need the best player available. Like moocow and others have said, nobody on this team should stop us from drafting anybody. Wiseman has more star potential than all of the point guards. Just draft Kira Lewis with another pick or sign Fred van fleet. Or tank for a Pg next year. What’s the rush anyways? We gonna be ass for the next couple of years. Lol

I hate this mindset that we need to draft a point guard no matter what. The Knicks need star players. That should be the priority. This is the same argument I had with yall about Tatum. Many of you guys kept saying you did not want to draft Tatum because we need a point guard so bad. Even as going as far saying drafting Frank over Tatum should be the move Hell yall was on that same Bs with Garland last season and he’s terrible...

We dont need to draft a point guard no matter what but why not draft need + Potential if your in the knicks situation. What unicorn ish elite big man skillset does Wiseman come with that would change the dynamic of the knicks? if he looked like deandre ayton in his brief showcases id probably be more excited

if we want to go big man just draft obi toppin. Mitchell/Obi/Barret would probably do more damage on the court than BArret/Wiseman



wiseman is questionable pick but i wouldnt be mad at it either way.

The Knicks would be absolutely silly to draft Toppin over Wiseman.

[moocow007]

I don't know how anybody could have watched the Knicks for the last 3 years at the least and especially last season and not come to the realization that the team needs better guards. Get better guards! Stop giving big men guard responsibilities and think you will be fine. You won't! Stop it already

Guards are a problem but this team needs better everything though. The only team in the NBA you can argue that has less talent than the Knicks is the Cavs and that can be argued pretty easily. Maybe Detroit now that they've sold off all their top parts?

Unless Rose can convince real useful foundation free agents to sign, this is a long, long road ahead for this team. Neither Robinson nor Barrett has screamed 'cornerstone' player.

[3toheadmelo]

i like wiseman but drafting a big when we have a huge hole at pg?

He didnt exactly show anything elite in the 3 college games that mitchell cant already do. Not to say he doesnt have the potential to be the next great big i just dont see the game changing skill set he'd bring to the team that puts him in the "must have" category. He's a safe pick none the least though. i dont feel its a pick thats really gonna give us that push we need and if he's not draining the long ball Or midrange at a respectable percentage you might as well just add him to the collection of bigs we have that need the ball around the rim to be truly effective =/

He showed mid range in college and was dominant in the paint tho. Mitch can’t do that. Mitch is just a rim runner. That’s the big difference between them.

I get we need a PG but we need the best player available. Like moocow and others have said, nobody on this team should stop us from drafting anybody. Wiseman has more star potential than all of the point guards. Just draft Kira Lewis with another pick or sign Fred van fleet. Or tank for a Pg next year. What’s the rush anyways? We gonna be ass for the next couple of years. Lol

I hate this mindset that we need to draft a point guard no matter what. The Knicks need star players. That should be the priority. This is the same argument I had with yall about Tatum. Many of you guys kept saying you did not want to draft Tatum because we need a point guard so bad. Even as going as far saying drafting Frank over Tatum should be the move Hell yall was on that same Bs with Garland last season and he’s terrible...

We dont need to draft a point guard no matter what but why not draft need + Potential if your in the knicks situation. What unicorn ish elite big man skillset does Wiseman come with that would change the dynamic of the knicks? if he looked like deandre ayton in his brief showcases id probably be more excited

if we want to go big man just draft obi toppin. Mitchell/Obi/Barret would probably do more damage on the court than BArret/Wiseman



wiseman is questionable pick but i wouldnt be mad at it either way.

Wiseman is super athletic...can hit jumpers off the dribble... .can handle the rock... a nice post game... great rim protector with the ability to switch onto guards.. physical specimen. I dont know if I can pass on him. I love Ayton but I def see Wiseman in the same stratosphere as him as a prospect.

I like Obi but Wiseman is a no brainer over him imo. Obi isn't that good on defense and Wiseman has elite measurements for his position while Obi lacks that. Obi is a better shooter though but that's about it.

[3toheadmelo]

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Mitchell Robinson was also hitting jumpers in high school.

High School highlight reals against kids 6 to 7 inches shorter with no chance of playing Div-1 ball and almost 50-60lbs lighter then a big man doesn't really show me anything.

Yeah Mitch is totally hitting step back jumpers, mid post fadeaways, jumpers off the dribble like Wiseman in this vid. Not one single jumper he was able to create for himself in this video. Not even ONE

Wiseman was also showing off his mid post fadeaway in college so your point is moot again He took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch has done throughout these past 2 years in the NBA.

Hell Mitch doesn't even show a post game in this video, which again Wiseman has shown plenty of times.

[HEZI]

Huh? I brought up Garland cause people was crazy about drafting him cause we needed a point guard so bad even though there were much better prospects than him at other positions. Same thing with people wanting to draft Frank over Tatum cause we need a point guard so bad. Just take the best player available, it's really that simple.

Except there aren't but keep pushing that narrative. Drafting best player available is only simple when there is a clear best player available. Tatum over Frank was an easy choice because Tatum was a better prospect, it was clear. I mean people didn't want Trae Young because they thought Frank was the answer at PG. Heck I know folks that thought Mo Bamba was better than Trae Young and thought he was BPA. Marvin Bagley was considered BPA over Trae also. You and me both didn't want Ja Morant because we thought he wasn't much better than DSJ and now we both look stupid for it.

BPA in college doesn't equal best player on the NBA level. RJ Barrett was considered BPA at 3 but really we could have taken Garland or Herro and still gotten the same level of talent.

Everybody has their own version of who BPA is and even the concensus can be wrong. Just because you feel you are taking BPA doesn't mean you really got the best NBA player.

Lets get back to talking about our roster construction, team needs, the trend of the modern NBA game, it's requirements and things of that nature and not try to be so simplistic with our comments such as saying just take BPA and call it a day.

I already named the players who were much better than Garland.
And nah, Garland aint on the same level as RJ bro. Stop pushing that weak narrative.

Go look back at 2017 draft threads, mad people here like mpharris was pushing for the Knicks to take Frank over Tatum. Cause we needed a point guard. Never understood that type of thinking.

When I say BPA I dont mean only their play in college, I am taking their potential into factor as well. And yeah I was dumb for thinking DSJ would be better than Ja but it just shows how we need to take BPA despite the position and then work from there.

I agree though we have our own version of BPA and even the concensus can be wrong for sure. Happens all the time. But my stance will stay the same, take the best player available, whoever you think that is. I would never draft for need/fit unless the team was only one position away of completing the core. Knicks aren't even close to that.

You just threw out names with no substance though. I told you having preferences is one thing, but having legit reason and facts to support it is another.

How is Garland not on the same level as RJ? There's nothing that suggests he isn't. They play different positions, have different styles of play and are overall different as players but what exactly makes RJ a better player? His rookie year he hasn't separated himself from the rest of the pack, he's on the same level as many of the guys in his class. For right now at least. Same goes for most of the other guys you named. Some of them have been worse than the guy you are saying is trash which is why your argument is so weak.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I was never crazy about Garland, but even if he ends up being a bust does that mean no team should ever draft a G again? He really doesn't have anything to do with this draft as every prospect and draft is different.

Huh? I brought up Garland cause people was crazy about drafting him cause we needed a point guard so bad even though there were much better prospects than him at other positions. Same thing with people wanting to draft Frank over Tatum cause we need a point guard so bad. Just take the best player available, it's really that simple.

I am all for drafting BPA, but maybe thats not Wiseman? It's debatable in this draft as there is no clear cut stars and the order can change a lot.

Garland was a little overhyped based on the small sample size. He always had flaws, but they didnt really play out since he missed most of the season. Actually, thats where I see a similiarity with Wiseman. Just think he needs a lot more work. I see him more as solid/good, then elite...I mean, at some point he's worth taking, he's just not the best player in this draft for me.

[3toheadmelo]

Except there aren't but keep pushing that narrative. Drafting best player available is only simple when there is a clear best player available. Tatum over Frank was an easy choice because Tatum was a better prospect, it was clear. I mean people didn't want Trae Young because they thought Frank was the answer at PG. Heck I know folks that thought Mo Bamba was better than Trae Young and thought he was BPA. Marvin Bagley was considered BPA over Trae also. You and me both didn't want Ja Morant because we thought he wasn't much better than DSJ and now we both look stupid for it.

BPA in college doesn't equal best player on the NBA level. RJ Barrett was considered BPA at 3 but really we could have taken Garland or Herro and still gotten the same level of talent.

Everybody has their own version of who BPA is and even the concensus can be wrong. Just because you feel you are taking BPA doesn't mean you really got the best NBA player.

Lets get back to talking about our roster construction, team needs, the trend of the modern NBA game, it's requirements and things of that nature and not try to be so simplistic with our comments such as saying just take BPA and call it a day.

I already named the players who were much better than Garland.
And nah, Garland aint on the same level as RJ bro. Stop pushing that weak narrative.

Go look back at 2017 draft threads, mad people here like mpharris was pushing for the Knicks to take Frank over Tatum. Cause we needed a point guard. Never understood that type of thinking.

When I say BPA I dont mean only their play in college, I am taking their potential into factor as well. And yeah I was dumb for thinking DSJ would be better than Ja but it just shows how we need to take BPA despite the position and then work from there.

I agree though we have our own version of BPA and even the concensus can be wrong for sure. Happens all the time. But my stance will stay the same, take the best player available, whoever you think that is. I would never draft for need/fit unless the team was only one position away of completing the core. Knicks aren't even close to that.

You just threw out names with no substance though. I told you having preferences is one thing, but having legit reason and facts to support it is another.

How is Garland not on the same level as RJ? There's nothing that suggests he isn't. They play different positions, have different styles of play and are overall different as players but what exactly makes RJ a better player? His rookie year he hasn't separated himself from the rest of the pack, he's on the same level as many of the guys in his class. For right now at least. Same goes for most of the other guys you named. Some of them have been worse than the guy you are saying is trash which is why your argument is so weak.

RJ is a better scorer and a better defender. Stats back that up. Stats back up all the other players as well. Im good on Garland fam.

[3toheadmelo]

I was never crazy about Garland, but even if he ends up being a bust does that mean no team should ever draft a G again? He really doesn't have anything to do with this draft as every prospect and draft is different.

Huh? I brought up Garland cause people was crazy about drafting him cause we needed a point guard so bad even though there were much better prospects than him at other positions. Same thing with people wanting to draft Frank over Tatum cause we need a point guard so bad. Just take the best player available, it's really that simple.

I am all for drafting BPA, but maybe thats not Wiseman? It's debatable in this draft as there is no clear cut stars and the order can change a lot.

Garland was a little overhyped based on the small sample size. He always had flaws, but they didnt really play out since he missed most of the season. Actually, thats where I see a similiarity with Wiseman. Just think he needs a lot more work. I see him more as solid/good, then elite...I mean, at some point he's worth taking, he's just not the best player in this draft for me.

I can respect that take. If you are all for BPA and don't think it's Wiseman then I won't argue with you. Agree to disagree on that end. But I am specifically talking about the people who are ignoring BPA and just want to take a point guard. Basically the people who want to draft for Fit/Need instead of just taking the better prospect overall. Knicks aren't in a position to draft for Fit/Need over the better prospect.

[HEZI]

I don't know how anybody could have watched the Knicks for the last 3 years at the least and especially last season and not come to the realization that the team needs better guards. Get better guards! Stop giving big men guard responsibilities and think you will be fine. You won't! Stop it already

Guards are a problem but this team needs better everything though. The only team in the NBA you can argue that has less talent than the Knicks is the Cavs and that can be argued pretty easily. Maybe Detroit now that they've sold off all their top parts?

Unless Rose can convince real useful foundation free agents to sign, this is a long, long road ahead for this team. Neither Robinson nor Barrett has screamed 'cornerstone' player.

Knicks have a lot of talent, individually there is plenty of it. Collectively they just don't fit, that's the biggest issue. It's such a bad mix of young prospects with glaring weaknesses mixed in with older vets with disturbingly similar weaknesses. Talent isn't the issue with the Knicks as much as the throwing stuff at the wall hoping it sticks team building concept that went into putting the team together. Wiseman on the Knicks would solve what current issue? Floor spacing? No! Playmaking? No! I'm having a hard time seeing how he would properly be put into a situation to become a star if he's drafted to the Knicks. Nobody in our frontcourt really compliments him, neither Robinson nor Randle. Our guards certainly don't either. RJ doesn't either really. That's why it just makes no sense. If they want to draft Wiseman, fine, but do it with the mindset of reconstructing the entire roster as soon as you get him. I mean for the most part its going to have to happen anyways but at least with some of the guards in play there is a much bigger need, better opportunity and easier transition opportunity than a big like Wiseman.

[HEZI]

I already named the players who were much better than Garland.
And nah, Garland aint on the same level as RJ bro. Stop pushing that weak narrative.

Go look back at 2017 draft threads, mad people here like mpharris was pushing for the Knicks to take Frank over Tatum. Cause we needed a point guard. Never understood that type of thinking.

When I say BPA I dont mean only their play in college, I am taking their potential into factor as well. And yeah I was dumb for thinking DSJ would be better than Ja but it just shows how we need to take BPA despite the position and then work from there.

I agree though we have our own version of BPA and even the concensus can be wrong for sure. Happens all the time. But my stance will stay the same, take the best player available, whoever you think that is. I would never draft for need/fit unless the team was only one position away of completing the core. Knicks aren't even close to that.

You just threw out names with no substance though. I told you having preferences is one thing, but having legit reason and facts to support it is another.

How is Garland not on the same level as RJ? There's nothing that suggests he isn't. They play different positions, have different styles of play and are overall different as players but what exactly makes RJ a better player? His rookie year he hasn't separated himself from the rest of the pack, he's on the same level as many of the guys in his class. For right now at least. Same goes for most of the other guys you named. Some of them have been worse than the guy you are saying is trash which is why your argument is so weak.

RJ is a better scorer and a better defender. Stats back that up. Stats back up all the other players as well. Im good on Garland fam.

He averaged 2 whole points more per game while taking 1 more shot per game. RJ shot 40% from FG which is identical to Garland. RJ shot 32% from 3 on 3 attempts per game compared to 35% from Garland on 5 attempts per game. RJ is a 61% FT shooter compared to Garland who shoots 87%. Better scorer? You sure? There's really no evidence of it. Better defender? Not really. RJ has had some nice defensive moments early in the season but didn't stay consistent. He was getting cooked and exposed as the season went on and his matchups started to get tougher. He couldn't guard NBA guards to save his life and really needed to be playing at forward from the beginning but that doesn't change what we know about him at guard and that is that he can't play defense on most NBA guards because he's gotten destroyed by plenty of them.

[Chanel Bomber]

He showed mid range in college and was dominant in the paint tho. Mitch can’t do that. Mitch is just a rim runner. That’s the big difference between them.

I get we need a PG but we need the best player available. Like moocow and others have said, nobody on this team should stop us from drafting anybody. Wiseman has more star potential than all of the point guards. Just draft Kira Lewis with another pick or sign Fred van fleet. Or tank for a Pg next year. What’s the rush anyways? We gonna be ass for the next couple of years. Lol

I hate this mindset that we need to draft a point guard no matter what. The Knicks need star players. That should be the priority. This is the same argument I had with yall about Tatum. Many of you guys kept saying you did not want to draft Tatum because we need a point guard so bad. Even as going as far saying drafting Frank over Tatum should be the move Hell yall was on that same Bs with Garland last season and he’s terrible...

We dont need to draft a point guard no matter what but why not draft need + Potential if your in the knicks situation. What unicorn ish elite big man skillset does Wiseman come with that would change the dynamic of the knicks? if he looked like deandre ayton in his brief showcases id probably be more excited

if we want to go big man just draft obi toppin. Mitchell/Obi/Barret would probably do more damage on the court than BArret/Wiseman



wiseman is questionable pick but i wouldnt be mad at it either way.

Wiseman is super athletic...can hit jumpers off the dribble... .can handle the rock... a nice post game... great rim protector with the ability to switch onto guards.. physical specimen. I dont know if I can pass on him. I love Ayton but I def see Wiseman in the same stratosphere as him as a prospect.

I like Obi but Wiseman is a no brainer over him imo. Obi isn't that good on defense and Wiseman has elite measurements for his position while Obi lacks that. Obi is a better shooter though but that's about it.

I know you like your centers like you want five 7-footers on the floor at all times lol but I gotta agree with you on this one.

I don't think prototypical 4s like Obi can lead you anywhere in today's NBA. There's no point in having them play near the rim if playing alongside a center cause they're using the same space. And if they're playing on the perimeter, it's easier to find a wing who can shoot as well - if not better - and switch across more positions to play the 4. Zion is the exception because he's Zion, and Obi's not Zion.

[mpharris36]

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Mitchell Robinson was also hitting jumpers in high school.

High School highlight reals against kids 6 to 7 inches shorter with no chance of playing Div-1 ball and almost 50-60lbs lighter then a big man doesn't really show me anything.

Yeah Mitch is totally hitting step back jumpers, mid post fadeaways, jumpers off the dribble like Wiseman in this vid. Not one single jumper he was able to create for himself in this video. Not even ONE

Wiseman was also showing off his mid post fadeaway in college so your point is moot again He took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch has done throughout these past 2 years in the NBA.

Hell Mitch doesn't even show a post game in this video, which again Wiseman has shown plenty of times.

You totally didn't get my point. It wasn't to compare the two players because they aren't the same player. It was to put a pause on using high school highlight reals to judge what a player can and will do in the pros.

Wiseman has played 3 games in his college career, 3 games! Two against teams that have zero basketball talent.

Watch on YouTube

the game against oregon is probably our only really worth while game we can actual analyse from him. I'm not even saying he isn't worth a top 3 pick. Because someone will take a chance on talent.

But to know sure fire what he can and can't do right now is presumptuous. Against small guys he's an animal because he is a big boy (he's got all the measurables) and he is a good athlete (not a great one). He will rebound and block shots.

The only noticeable thing I can see translating that he does better than say Mitch from day one is he has a nice mid range game. I have no clue how or when a post game will tranlates because he has never played against guys even remotely his same size. That is a huge difference if how bigs will tranlate to the NBA game.

The question which I do believe HEZI is making. Wiseman isn't a guy you can just plug and play and he will make an impact right away. He's going to need guards to get him the ball and create for him because Wiseman doesn't create shots for himself. This team needs more playmaking and scoring. Would Wiseman disappear without the proper team around him?

[3toheadmelo]

You just threw out names with no substance though. I told you having preferences is one thing, but having legit reason and facts to support it is another.

How is Garland not on the same level as RJ? There's nothing that suggests he isn't. They play different positions, have different styles of play and are overall different as players but what exactly makes RJ a better player? His rookie year he hasn't separated himself from the rest of the pack, he's on the same level as many of the guys in his class. For right now at least. Same goes for most of the other guys you named. Some of them have been worse than the guy you are saying is trash which is why your argument is so weak.

RJ is a better scorer and a better defender. Stats back that up. Stats back up all the other players as well. Im good on Garland fam.

He averaged 2 whole points more per game while taking 1 more shot per game. RJ shot 40% from FG which is identical to Garland. RJ shot 32% from 3 on 3 attempts per game compared to 35% from Garland on 5 attempts per game. RJ is a 61% FT shooter compared to Garland who shoots 87%. Better scorer? You sure? There's really no evidence of it. Better defender? Not really. RJ has had some nice defensive moments early in the season but didn't stay consistent. He was getting cooked and exposed as the season went on and his matchups started to get tougher. He couldn't guard NBA guards to save his life and really needed to be playing at forward from the beginning but that doesn't change what we know about him at guard and that is that he can't play defense on most NBA guards because he's gotten destroyed by plenty of them.

All you're telling me is that Garland has a better jump shot than RJ, which we know already. RJ is better than him in every other aspect of basketball.

RJ averaged more PPG so yes he is a better scorer. He gets to the line more than Garland also. Garland is in the bottom 5 of DRPM among all the point guards in the league. Thats how bad he is defensively. RJ is not that bad in his position. Opponents against Garland shoot 7% better when guarded by him while for RJ it is just 5%.

There is a reason why Knicks fans arent crying about passing up Garland. Cause RJ schits on him as a prospect and a player

[3toheadmelo]

Watch on YouTube

Mitchell Robinson was also hitting jumpers in high school.

High School highlight reals against kids 6 to 7 inches shorter with no chance of playing Div-1 ball and almost 50-60lbs lighter then a big man doesn't really show me anything.

Yeah Mitch is totally hitting step back jumpers, mid post fadeaways, jumpers off the dribble like Wiseman in this vid. Not one single jumper he was able to create for himself in this video. Not even ONE

Wiseman was also showing off his mid post fadeaway in college so your point is moot again He took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch has done throughout these past 2 years in the NBA.

Hell Mitch doesn't even show a post game in this video, which again Wiseman has shown plenty of times.

You totally didn't get my point. It wasn't to compare the two players because they aren't the same player. It was to put a pause on using high school highlight reals to judge what a player can and will do in the pros.

Wiseman has played 3 games in his college career, 3 games! Two against teams that have zero basketball talent.

Watch on YouTube

the game against oregon is probably our only really worth while game we can actual analyse from him. I'm not even saying he isn't worth a top 3 pick. Because someone will take a chance on talent.

But to know sure fire what he can and can't do right now is presumptuous. Against small guys he's an animal because he is a big boy (he's got all the measurables) and he is a good athlete (not a great one). He will rebound and block shots.

The only noticeable thing I can see translating that he does better than say Mitch from day one is he has a nice mid range game. I have no clue how or when a post game will tranlates because he has never played against guys even remotely his same size. That is a huge difference if how bigs will tranlate to the NBA game.

The question which I do believe HEZI is making. Wiseman isn't a guy you can just plug and play and he will make an impact right away. He's going to need guards to get him the ball and create for him because Wiseman doesn't create shots for himself. This team needs more playmaking and scoring. Would Wiseman disappear without the proper team around him?

Mitch's high school vid really isn't much different than how he is right now. That vid just mostly consists of open dunks, put backs, blocks and the occassional spot up jumper. Difference is that he isn't taking the occassional open jumper.

Wiseman can for sure create shots for himself. In college he was making fadeaways from the post. Mitch can't even do that. Again the footage is right there of him creating his own shot. I showed you it.

You said the Knicks need playmaking but insist on drafting Edwards over a playmaker like Lamelo. So you're contradicting yourself. But we all know you want Edwards so Frank can start

Holding Wiseman to just one game is foolish (Although he still put up a double double in that game). Especially in that game he was going through a lot with all of the drama around him.

There is footage of Wiseman putting in work against quality big men (that are in this draft) from high school. Go look for it. Youtube is a great thing. Lol

[mpharris36]

Yeah Mitch is totally hitting step back jumpers, mid post fadeaways, jumpers off the dribble like Wiseman in this vid. Not one single jumper he was able to create for himself in this video. Not even ONE

Wiseman was also showing off his mid post fadeaway in college so your point is moot again He took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch has done throughout these past 2 years in the NBA.

Hell Mitch doesn't even show a post game in this video, which again Wiseman has shown plenty of times.

You totally didn't get my point. It wasn't to compare the two players because they aren't the same player. It was to put a pause on using high school highlight reals to judge what a player can and will do in the pros.

Wiseman has played 3 games in his college career, 3 games! Two against teams that have zero basketball talent.

Watch on YouTube

the game against oregon is probably our only really worth while game we can actual analyse from him. I'm not even saying he isn't worth a top 3 pick. Because someone will take a chance on talent.

But to know sure fire what he can and can't do right now is presumptuous. Against small guys he's an animal because he is a big boy (he's got all the measurables) and he is a good athlete (not a great one). He will rebound and block shots.

The only noticeable thing I can see translating that he does better than say Mitch from day one is he has a nice mid range game. I have no clue how or when a post game will tranlates because he has never played against guys even remotely his same size. That is a huge difference if how bigs will tranlate to the NBA game.

The question which I do believe HEZI is making. Wiseman isn't a guy you can just plug and play and he will make an impact right away. He's going to need guards to get him the ball and create for him because Wiseman doesn't create shots for himself. This team needs more playmaking and scoring. Would Wiseman disappear without the proper team around him?

Mitch's high school vid really isn't much different than how he is right now. That vid just mostly consists of open dunks, put backs, blocks and the occassional spot up jumper. Difference is that he isn't taking the occassional open jumper.

Wiseman can for sure create shots for himself. In college he was making fadeaways from the post. Mitch can't even do that. Again the footage is right there of him creating his own shot. I showed you it.

You said the Knicks need playmaking but insist on drafting Edwards over a playmaker like Lamelo. So you're contradicting yourself. But we all know you want Edwards so Frank can start

Holding Wiseman to just one game is foolish (Although he still put up a double double in that game). Especially in that game he was going through a lot with all of the drama around him.

There is footage of Wiseman putting in work against quality big men (that are in this draft) from high school. Go look for it. Youtube is a great thing. Lol

you keep peddling this tired act. When I like both Killian Hayes and Haliburton as prospects.

Did you miss the fact that we need a guy that can playmake AND....wait for it SCORE. A guy that can't buckets off the dribble. And yes that is why I want Edwards over Ball. Because I don't trust Ball's ability to score consistently in the NBA. ANd the fact he wont play any defense either. Doesn't mean he isn't a tremendous playmaker because he is.

I am also trying to put the best talent around RJ + Mitch who are best two young players at the moment. Which is why I'm looking for playmaking but also a guy with a trust worthy jump shot. Which I think is very vital to this team.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the reason the knicks continue to lose games is because we don't have consistent shooting...when that is the name of the game today. You need guys that can keep a defense honest that have the ball in there hands because spacing is so vital in the NBA.

I also like Tre Jones in the later 1st round with a potential pick if we don't go PG with our first pick. But sorry if I don't spend too much time talking about Ball or Wiseman. I don't even like spending so much time on Edwards because again jumping in the top 3 is not very likely.

Which means I'm focusing more on realistic options for the knicks.

[mpharris36]

right now my preference at 7 or 8 (which we have a 50% chance of landing)

that range is the :

Cole Anthony
Killian Hayes
Tyrese Haliburton
Isaac Okoro
Onyeka Okongwu
Obi Toppin

I like Okoro and Okongwu as prospects I just don't think the knicks can select them right now.

So right now I would prefer Hayes with a backup option as Haliburton

Not as high on Cole Anthony or Obi Toppin for the list above (obi can score but he's too old of a prospect. Kinda has a defined ceiling already in my eyes. Will score a bit and rebound but won't do much else for you.

Cole Anthony I can see the lure (NY kid, father played here). But RJ is already a pretty shaky efficiency guy it would be tough to bring in another low efficiency, high volume guard with questionable vision.

edit:

this is also how I would rank them for the knicks purposes because I am a believer that you just can't throw players together and expect them to reach there full potential if you don't put a team together that makes sense. That is why talent needs to also align with a cohesive roster.

[HEZI]

RJ is a better scorer and a better defender. Stats back that up. Stats back up all the other players as well. Im good on Garland fam.

He averaged 2 whole points more per game while taking 1 more shot per game. RJ shot 40% from FG which is identical to Garland. RJ shot 32% from 3 on 3 attempts per game compared to 35% from Garland on 5 attempts per game. RJ is a 61% FT shooter compared to Garland who shoots 87%. Better scorer? You sure? There's really no evidence of it. Better defender? Not really. RJ has had some nice defensive moments early in the season but didn't stay consistent. He was getting cooked and exposed as the season went on and his matchups started to get tougher. He couldn't guard NBA guards to save his life and really needed to be playing at forward from the beginning but that doesn't change what we know about him at guard and that is that he can't play defense on most NBA guards because he's gotten destroyed by plenty of them.

All you're telling me is that Garland has a better jump shot than RJ, which we know already. RJ is better than him in every other aspect of basketball.

RJ averaged more PPG so yes he is a better scorer. He gets to the line more than Garland also. Garland is in the bottom 5 of DRPM among all the point guards in the league. Thats how bad he is defensively. RJ is not that bad in his position. Opponents against Garland shoot 7% better when guarded by him while for RJ it is just 5%.

There is a reason why Knicks fans arent crying about passing up Garland. Cause RJ schits on him as a prospect and a player

These are such strong arguments. Averaging 2 points more and opponents shooting an entire 2% difference. Clearly not in the same class

Yeah, nobody is crying about not drafting the other dudes after him that you think are some superior players and prospects. Like I keep saying, your arguments are weak and nothing more than personal preference. You want so desperately to be right about Garland that you actually went as low as calling Cam Reddish better but you wouldn't dare post Reddish's numbers. Pull up everybody's numbers and lets see this superior prospects on a scale how they all share. You wont do it and it's obvious why