OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kampuchea · Post #121 » by **Kampuchea** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:05 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:

Read on Twitter

Don’t think they are clear examples of anything, particularly Knox who just seems aloof and isn’t going to excel under almost any circumstances. A coach isn’t going to change Knox’s drive.

Frank needs to stop injuring his groin every time there’s an opportunity for more PT.

It’s nice for guys like RJ to have Hanlen around, but RJ is going to be great because he has an insane work ethic.

Jay10 · Post #122 » by **Jay10** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:08 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:

Read on Twitter

Don’t think they are clear examples of anything, particularly Knox who just seems aloof and isn’t going to excel under almost any circumstances. A coach isn’t going to change Knox’s drive.

Frank needs to stop injuring his groin every time there’s an opportunity for more PT.

It’s nice for guys like RJ to have Hanlen around, but RJ is going to be great because he has an insane work ethic.

RJ's work ethic would've been useless if Fizdale and Keith Smart got another year of destroying his shooting form.

One more season under Fizdale and RJ would've been shooting like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. :lol:

Post #123 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:24 pm

Frank sucks...I just blame the Knicks for making bad picks and bad decisions more. I can't blame Frank for the Knicks not keeping any draft pick since Charlie Ward so they must be doing something wrong....and yeah drafting bad players is part of that.

But hopefully that is in the past and things turn around.

cgmw · Post #124 » by **cgmw** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:27 pm

Jay10 wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:

Read on Twitter

Don’t think they are clear examples of anything, particularly Knox who just seems aloof and isn’t going to excel under almost any circumstances. A coach isn’t going to change Knox’s drive.

Frank needs to stop injuring his groin every time there’s an opportunity for more PT.

It’s nice for guys like RJ to have Hanlen around, but RJ is going to be great because he has an insane work ethic.

RJ's work ethic would've been useless if Fizdale and Keith Smart got another year of destroying his shooting form.

One more season under Fizdale and RJ would've been shooting like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.

Nature-Nurture argument again and again on this board.

It’s so easy for macho Internet tough guys and wannabe scouts to proclaim that so-and-so would have been a bust no matter what or that Donovan Mitchell or SGA would have been successful anywhere; but if the Darwinian tough guys read the actual book by Darwin I think they’d see that environment is every bit a determining factor in the expression of talent as the talent itself.

Anyway, to play my own devil’s advocate I’m not sure DSJ had the mental capacity to succeed anywhere in the league but that’s just my own biased opinion based on seeing him pop gum and launch one footed half court shots during layup lines after he came back from missing time for his step-mom’s death. As soon as I saw him do that, I thought, oh he’s totally done as an NBA player. Nobody can save him now.

I can see how fans would have the same opinion on Knox and Frank considering their timid and/or space cadet personalities. I choose to believe that an alternate universe exists where all 3 of them succeeded because each has/had world-class raw talent; but none seemed to find the coaches, executives, fans, teams, teammates, etc. to develop it.

And totally agree about RJ. For him to fail a team would really have to try as an organization to F up his development. Problem is the Dolan organization really DOES seem to try.

malik959 · Post #125 » by **malik959** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:36 pm

We can sit here complaining about how Frank didn't get a chance and the same goes for Knox. We've all seen flashes from both of kids, but never any consistency. So if you don't earn the playing time why should it be given to you? Burks was able to come out of the GLeague and earn time, why couldn't Frank? He had four years and several coaches and he still couldn't prove himself. This has not stopped RJ or Randle from improving. So why show sympathy for Frank? I have always been on his side and believe in a four year rule for young rookies. If you don't show that you have that fire and desire to be great than kick rocks and go to the Mavs......

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Post #126 » by **moocow007** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:56 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Frank sucks...I just blame the Knicks for making bad picks and bad decisions more. I can't blame Frank for the Knicks not keeping any draft pick since Charlie Ward so they must be doing something wrong....and yeah drafting bad players is part of that.

But hopefully that is in the past and things turn around.

Yeah agreed. Looks like it. The guys they've taken so far all seem to have certain common characteristics that you want your players to have. Confidence, smarts, intensity, a bit of fearlessness, character and identifiable/applicable basketball skills that work in today's NBA. It shows in the guys that they passed up on that may have had more talent but also more volatility in terms of character and/or lacking in the above traits. Perfect example is the guy I wanted them to take, Jalen Johnson. Top tier talent and tools but questionnable makeup and character. Still think they should have taken JJ but you can't argue with going with guys that appear to have those things I mentioned either.

Kampuchea · Post #127 » by **Kampuchea** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:46 pm

malik959 wrote:We can sit here complaining about how Frank didn't get a chance and the same goes for Knox. We've all seen flashes from both of kids, but never any consistency. So if you don't earn the playing time why should it be given to you? Burks was able to come out of the GLeague and earn time, why couldn't Frank? He had four years and several coaches and he still couldn't prove himself. This has not stopped RJ or Randle from improving. So why show sympathy for Frank? I have always been on his side and believe in a four year rule for young rookies. If you don't show that you have that fire and desire to be great than kick rocks and go to the Mavs......

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Yes. People need to stop pretending the Knicks ruined Frank and Knox. They are who they are - fringe NBA players perhaps better suited for playing overseas.

Knicks deserve blame for believing in them by selecting them in the draft.

Ray Williams · Post #128 » by **Ray Williams** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:49 pm

Knicks have a history of letting players go that become successful with other teams, Doug Christie and Matt Barnes had long careers but weren’t good enough for us.

Clyde_Style · Post #129 » by **Clyde_Style** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:22 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
malik959 wrote:We can sit here complaining about how Frank didn't get a chance and the same goes for Knox. We've all seen flashes from both of kids, but never any consistency. So if you don't earn the playing time why should it be given to you? Burks was able to come out of the GLeague and earn time, why couldn't Frank? He had four years and several coaches and he still couldn't prove himself. This has not stopped RJ or Randle from improving. So why show sympathy for Frank? I have always been on his side and believe in a four year rule for young rookies. If you don't show that you have that fire and desire to be great than kick rocks and go to the Mavs......

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Yes. People need to stop pretending the Knicks ruined Frank and Knox. They are who they are - fringe NBA players perhaps better suited for playing overseas.

Knicks deserve blame for believing in them by selecting them in the draft.

This whole thread is so 2019

Kampuchea · Post #130 » by **Kampuchea** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:38 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
malik959 wrote:We can sit here complaining about how Frank didn't get a chance and the same goes for Knox. We've all seen flashes from both of kids, but never any consistency. So if you don't earn the playing time why should it be given to you? Burks was able to come out of the GLeague and earn time, why couldn't Frank? He had four years and several coaches and he still couldn't prove himself. This has not stopped RJ or Randle from improving. So why show sympathy for Frank? I have always been on his side and believe in a four year rule for young rookies. If you don't show that you have that fire and desire to be great than kick rocks and go to the Mavs......

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Yes. People need to stop pretending the Knicks ruined Frank and Knox. They are who they are - fringe NBA players perhaps better suited for playing overseas.

Knicks deserve blame for believing in them by selecting them in the draft.

This whole thread is so 2019

I blame the Knoxfooters.

Clyde_Style · Post #131 » by **Clyde_Style** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:42 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
Yes. People need to stop pretending the Knicks ruined Frank and Knox. They are who they are - fringe NBA players perhaps better suited for playing overseas.

Knicks deserve blame for believing in them by selecting them in the draft.

This whole thread is so 2019

I blame the Knoxfooters.

Gotta blame something I guess. Y’all like old men yelling at clouds

HarthorneWingo · Post #132 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:05 am

moocow007 wrote:On Mudiay, Frank and the whole playing time needed for development thing...

Mudiay was 21 when the Knicks traded for him. That is 2 years younger than Frank is right now and at about the same age that you guys are implying are critical development years for young players. So...I'm not getting the argument that giving minutes to Mudiay being an example of the Knicks not trying to develop young players by giving them playing time. Maybe the Knicks view was that Frank just wasn't worth investing in and that in part is why they traded for Mudiay and attempted to give him the playing time that some are saying should have gone to Frank. Mudiay wasn't some veteran hired gun. Just want to make sure folk realize that.

This is about "not trying to develop young players". It's about "not trying to develop Frank", in particular. This is exactly the problem I'm referring to when you bring in a different coaching staff/front office personnel each year. No consistent vision in how we were going to develop him. We just bounced around from PG to PG. He kept falling through the cracks. I can't wait to see him blossom in the next 2-3 years. He's going to be a beast.

Jay10 · Post #133 » by **Jay10** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:08 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
moocow007 wrote:On Mudiay, Frank and the whole playing time needed for development thing...

Mudiay was 21 when the Knicks traded for him. That is 2 years younger than Frank is right now and at about the same age that you guys are implying are critical development years for young players. So...I'm not getting the argument that giving minutes to Mudiay being an example of the Knicks not trying to develop young players by giving them playing time. Maybe the Knicks view was that Frank just wasn't worth investing in and that in part is why they traded for Mudiay and attempted to give him the playing time that some are saying should have gone to Frank. Mudiay wasn't some veteran hired gun. Just want to make sure folk realize that.

This is about not trying to develop "young players". It's about not trying to develop Frank, in particular. This is exactly the problem I'm referring to when you bring in a different coaching staff/front office personnel each year. No consistent vision in how we were going to develop him. We just bounced around from PG to PG. He kept falling through the cracks. I can't wait to see him blossom in the next 2-3 years. He's going to be a beast.

Over the years I've come to realization that the Knicks wish there never was an NBA Draft, and instead wanted other teams to do the hard work of developing the players, and then try to lure them to NY with money.

There is definitely something wrong when your last draft pick to get a second contract is Charlie Ward.

HarthorneWingo · Post #134 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:14 am

Gravy wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Gravy wrote:They dont really send anyone to the G league, they never sent Obi and they are high on him.

What more did you want them to do to develop Frank?

Short of the G League, they could’ve just let him play over those other clowns. We weren’t winning with them so why not give those minutes to our lottery pick? We could’ve also had a stable coaching staff and front office that had a consistent plan for developing him. Every year a new coaching staff comes in with a different coaching philosophy, etc. Of course, Frank’s health played a great role as well.who is responsible for that?

If you want to blame everyone except Frank for not being able to score more than 6 points in 21 minutes I dont know what else to say...

My point is that while we're losing/tanking, it's perfectly okay for Frank to score only 6 points in 21 minutes because he can affect the for us in other ways. What was Payton doing that was so great? Frank needed someone to show confidence in him and Thibs isn't that kind of coach particularly with a player he didn't have any role in acquiring. Even this past season, we were only expected to win only around 30 games and we started Payton all season long. Why?

Frank's not a finished product. But I'm fine with him going to Dallas which should be a better situation for him.

seren · Post #135 » by **seren** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:21 am

For Frank’s sake, that is hopes a guaranteed contract. If it is a camp invite type of situation, he will not only be out of the league in a month but most likely he won’t get a job in Europe either

3toheadmelo · Post #136 » by **3toheadmelo** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:31 am

seren wrote:For Frank’s sake, that is hopes a guaranteed contract. If it is a camp invite type of situation, he will not only be out of the league in a month but most likely he won’t get a job in Europe either

this guy is saying it's a camp deal

Read on Twitter

Jalen Bluntson · Post #137 » by **Jalen Bluntson** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:00 am

DSJ on his 4th team. Frank on his 2nd...almost. We had both at the same time! :lol:

Gravy · Post #138 » by **Gravy** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:56 am

We all wanted draft picks to save the Knicks turns out the Knicks need to save the draft picks from being busts!

omerome · Post #139 » by **omerome** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:07 am

Frank really has to bear some responsibility for his lack of development. He was given the opportunity to play but either he was injured or he just wasn't hungry enough to make the most of it when he was on the court. His passiveness was his downfall.

I mean, it says a lot when a coach who preaches defense first still kept him on the bench. If Frank played with the same vigor as he does defensively, offensively, things might have been different for him. I believed he would, but he didn't it here and it's a shame.

I am sure he will have some big moments in Dallas, but I honestly don't even care at this point. He's been replaced with players who will give the team what he does and more. I mean, what's Frank's career-high? 19? 20? I mean...that says it all.

Post #140 » by **dakomish23** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:21 am

duetta wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:

Read on Twitter

It's hard to develop a player who is always hurt.

This is also true