Was it a mistake to bring in Walker and Fournier?

[moocow007]

Don’t like the Fournier contract no problem with the player as a high end 6th man.

Kemba is such a small investment dollars / years wise I still have hope for it

For what they are going to be paying Fournier and Walker for the next 2 years they'd could have Derozan. Then it's just $8 million difference between Derozan and Fournier for the 3rd and final year. Only real shot the Knicks had of breaking even or doing better was if Walker lived up to the hope Knick fans put in him instead of looking like he's toast. Hindsight they definitely should have gone after Derozan. But a lot of us would have chosen Derozan at the price he got over Fournier and Walker.

[malik959]

It’s funny how 3 years ago we would have been happy with this start of 10\8. I don’t feel that getting both Fournier and Kemba were mistakes, Fournier is starting to come around and is now doing what we brought him in to do. Kemba was a “if he shows capability than great, if he doesn’t than ho humm just move along. It doesn’t hurt us. Now, I wanted to see him excel in his hometown, it would have been big for NYC to see him succeed. It seems his knees would not allow him the lateral movement to play and I for one am sorry it didn’t workout, but we had the backup plan in our depth if things didn’t workout and we have to give that credit to our front office. The old regime would have ran him into the dirt and we would end up 10th seed in a bad draft and the players 9th and 11th would become stars. Having three bad defenders in our starting lineup was a mistake, and most of us shadow foreseen a shakeup coming after the first five games. This was the right move and I wish Kemba the best.

[ohboy109]

It's been a rough couple of games, and coming up to the 1st quarter of the season the question has to be asked: Was bringing in this backcourt a mistake?

- Julius is better with the ball in his hands when he's the hub of the ball going around. Most of you think how he's being utilized isn't good, but his game and everyone else's game is predicated on how the shots are going to be distributed. His ESP with Bullock was the catalyst of how he gets the ball to the open shooters. Right now, he's trying to get that ESP going with Fournier and it's been up and down. Fournier's role will have to be adjusted to have him be more comfortable with pull up shooting and catch and shooting because his indecisiveness with how to attack a set defense is holding the offense back.

- Walker is being asked to do the "less is more" with Julius on the court, and I believe it's hurting his concentration on playing off the ball more. His job should simply be the attacking PG he's always been, but he's been too tentative with his dribble penetration and I believe its about his knee still not being right. While he should take more 3's, he should be spraying out passes when he gets deep in the paint instead of forcing up shots with a bigger defender in his face. He's been too up and down, and its hurting the offense as a result.

- RJ has been the most polarizing of the starters. He started the season on a hot note, but the last 7 games, he's been on a huge cold streak. I don't know what is making him be too unbalanced with his scoring. Few games he's shooting 45% FG and 40% 3PT, and the next few games he's shooting like basura. I just believe he needs to be the 1 man fast break, create contact in the paint so he can get more free throws. Using the FT line can get his shot going. Also, what's up with the refs not giving him calls when he attacks the basket and getting hacked? Does he need to get busted open to get a foul call?



Right now, this team is up and down, but I don't think bringing in Walker and Fournier is a mistake, but they need to get this right and soon. What do y'all think?

Spoiler:

Also, I want Obi and IQ get more minutes, especially for the small ball lineups (Rose/IQ/RJ/Obi/Randle)

randle is a problem too wake up

[dakomish23]

Don’t like the Fournier contract no problem with the player as a high end 6th man.

Kemba is such a small investment dollars / years wise I still have hope for it

For what they are going to be paying Fournier and Walker for the next 2 years they'd could have Derozan. Then it's just $8 million difference between Derozan and Fournier for the 3rd and final year. Only real shot the Knicks had of breaking even or doing better was if Walker lived up to the hope Knick fans put in him instead of looking like he's toast. Hindsight they definitely should have gone after Derozan. But a lot of us would have chosen Derozan at the price he got over Fournier and Walker.

No disagreement there. I’m just speaking in a vacuum.

If it’s about who we could have possibly gotten instead of those two, I’d have taken Ball. And instead of DRose Burks Noel I’d go after Lowry. I really thought if we got those two, we’d be a sneaky contender. Perfect fits IMO

[BugginOut]

Having Fournier allowed us to have enough quality scorers so that Burks could abuse Trae last game. Unlike Bullock there is no way the Hawks can put Trae on 6’7 Fournier.

Kemba was always a risk. But signing him instead of other FA’s kept our cap flexibility and we can still use his salary in a trade.

[JXL]

Bump. Now Kemba is benched. Evan next?

[TexasMassacre]

Evan gonna get traded.

[haterade]

Bringing in Fournier and Walker at their prices was fine. The real problem was the Front Office unable to convince bigger name players to either come to the Knicks or to be traded to the Knicks. Rose was brought in because he's a powerbroker and supposedly would make things happen. He obviously struck out and we got stuck with the backup plan of Fournier and Walker. I'm hoping he can somehow pull off a trade for one of the 3 PGs on the Kings. Haliburton or Fox would be amazing for the Knicks.

[TBri1974]

The Kemba move clearly appears not to have worked out, which is a shame given the 'coming home' slant to the story.

The Fournier contract reminds me of the Tim Hardaway contract. We paid more than he would have gotten elsewhere and don't know how to use him. We may end up asking another team to take him on - at a cost - and then he may play up to his contract elsewhere. 17 million is an overpay for Fournier, but he has the skill set and competitive drive to earn it; he's just not doing that here in this system at current.

[WargamesX]

Kemba was them taking a low risk chance, Fournier was looking great in the Olympics too so it made sense. Of the two Fournier is the one that too me is the bigger issue. He was brought here to be a borderline 2nd but probably 3rd option and he hasn’t lived up to those low standards.

Kemba was the Knicks maybe, finally, just for once chance of having a good PG on the roster and like always it didn’t work out.

[WargamesX]

The Kemba move clearly appears not to have worked out, which is a shame given the 'coming home' slant to the story.

The Fournier contract reminds me of the Tim Hardaway contract. We paid more than he would have gotten elsewhere and don't know how to use him. We may end up asking another team to take him on - at a cost - and then he may play up to his contract elsewhere. 17 million is an overpay for Fournier, but he has the skill set and competitive drive to earn it; he's just not doing that here in this system at current.

I know it’s at least 1 season early but it’s surprising that nobody is questioning Thibs coaching? Yeah he won COTY but it should have been Monty Williams. Playing guys 40+ minutes a game to eek out regular season wins isn’t some higher level of coaching. Could a more balanced coach get more of this team? We won’t find out until at least next year.

[moocow007]

The Kemba move clearly appears not to have worked out, which is a shame given the 'coming home' slant to the story.

The Fournier contract reminds me of the Tim Hardaway contract. We paid more than he would have gotten elsewhere and don't know how to use him. We may end up asking another team to take him on - at a cost - and then he may play up to his contract elsewhere. 17 million is an overpay for Fournier, but he has the skill set and competitive drive to earn it; he's just not doing that here in this system at current.

Yeah I tend to agree. Kemba looks either physically washed or mentally already retired. The notion that the Knicks didn't know how to use him (as was being pushed by certain people) is preposterous IMO. The prime time Walker would have taken the ball and ran and wouldn't have needed anyone to give him anything. This one they got? He looked about as interested in playing competitive basketball as Donald Trump would have at going to a BLM rally and looked more than happy not have to be given anything.

He looked toasted in Boston as well and the hope was that that was because he needed more time to recover and didn't get the shots that he needed cause Boston had 2 guys (Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum) that deserved more shots, needed the ball and were dynamic shot creators. But he still looks like burnt toast (over 8 months later) and he only had but one guy (a less dynamic offensive player) to beat even if we assume that they both couldn't have shared the ball (which is in and of itself preposterous).

Fournier IMO also was too quick of a signing and for too much. Just like the rest of their role players from last season. Too soon and for too much.

[NYKinMIA]

Yes and no.

[moocow007]

The Kemba move clearly appears not to have worked out, which is a shame given the 'coming home' slant to the story.

The Fournier contract reminds me of the Tim Hardaway contract. We paid more than he would have gotten elsewhere and don't know how to use him. We may end up asking another team to take him on - at a cost - and then he may play up to his contract elsewhere. 17 million is an overpay for Fournier, but he has the skill set and competitive drive to earn it; he's just not doing that here in this system at current.

I know it’s at least 1 season early but it’s surprising that nobody is questioning Thibs coaching? Yeah he won COTY but it should have been Monty Williams. Playing guys 40+ minutes a game to eek out regular season wins isn’t some higher level of coaching. Could a more balanced coach get more of this team? We won’t find out until at least next year.

If Thibs wasn't here this team wouldn't have been a playoff team at all. Would have been a 30 win team...at best with a real good chance of repeating the 21 win season (they were predicting the Knicks to be a 26 win team weren't they?). That may not have been a good thing (for the tank brigade) but the point is Thibs deserved the COTY for taking a team that was one of the least talented teams in the NBA coming off a 21-45 season and getting them to 10 games above .500 at 41-31. Monty Williams had one of the most talented teams in the NBA led by a guy that has historically been one of the best players at making his teammates better. Thibs had Randle as his no.1 and Elfrid Payton as his starting PG and a bunch of career role players playing well above their career production/impact.

[Chanel Bomber]

Turns out the Knicks should've traded that first for Masai

[WargamesX]

The Kemba move clearly appears not to have worked out, which is a shame given the 'coming home' slant to the story.

The Fournier contract reminds me of the Tim Hardaway contract. We paid more than he would have gotten elsewhere and don't know how to use him. We may end up asking another team to take him on - at a cost - and then he may play up to his contract elsewhere. 17 million is an overpay for Fournier, but he has the skill set and competitive drive to earn it; he's just not doing that here in this system at current.

I know it’s at least 1 season early but it’s surprising that nobody is questioning Thibs coaching? Yeah he won COTY but it should have been Monty Williams. Playing guys 40+ minutes a game to eek out regular season wins isn’t some higher level of coaching. Could a more balanced coach get more of this team? We won’t find out until at least next year.

If Thibs wasn't here this team wouldn't have been a playoff team at all. Would have been a 30 win team...at best with a real good chance of repeating the 21 win season (they were predicting the Knicks to be a 26 win team weren't they?). That may not have been a good thing (for the tank brigade) but the point is Thibs deserved the COTY for taking a team that was one of the least talented teams in the NBA coming off a 21-45 season and getting them to 10 games above .500 at 41-31. Monty Williams had one of the most talented teams in the NBA led by a guy that has historically been one of the best players at making his teammates better. Thibs had Randle as his no.1 and Elfrid Payton as his starting PG and a bunch of career role players playing well above their career production/impact.

The Suns were considered bad too and made the leap with Monty as a coach. They could have won the championship if Saric didn’t get injured and they had to rely on Kaminsky as a backup center, meaning Ayton had to avoid foul trouble too.

[seren]

Can’t wait for December 15. We need a big purge. The question is who will make these decisions.

[camillepd]

Yes and yes!!!

[seren]

This summer’s two big signings turned into complete turd. Either the coach is really bad at making adjustments to make this work or the management made horrible decisions. You gotta fire the coach or management

[DickGrayson]

Kemba will comeback this season and prove his dramatic naysayers wrong. Anyone who was expecting 24-25 ppg Kemba is obviously stupid. All we need was 14-18 ppg. It's most of a health thing for Kemba which creates a mental block. But when Kemba plays well, it's clearly when our offense is at our best. We broke records with him at PG. Knicks problems go beyond Kemba, thus why they lose 99% of the games even with Kemba benched. Even with Kemba "slumping", Elfrid Payton is currently average an amazing 4 points 4 assist per game this season.

Fournier can shoot the ball, but provides nothing else. But Reggie Bullock is shooting 36% FG 26% 3PT 66% FT on 6 points per game.

We still upgraded because Bullock/Payton always been overrated defenders and when they slump offensively, they look like CBA players.

It wasn't "mistake", but if Ball/Caruso wasn't available, who else would we sign? 7 pages in this thread and no one has a solution to what we should of done with our money.

We had a weakness(shooting)
we addressed it with Kemba/Fournier. It's far from a "mistake" because we still upgraded from two very overrated players.


The most important thing everyone needs to know in this thread, theres another free agency. Theres another draft. We will acquire more players overtime, but this isn't a mistake because we got Kemba for cheap. Fournier probably overpaid, but he doesn't have a long contract.