OT: NFL 24-25 Thread Cont'd

[Deeeez Knicks]

If the giants have a top 2 pick, they have to take a qb. If they miss then try again.

You can’t pass on the chance. It is a crap shoot but they are in position….cant be afraid to take a shot

[Ghetto Gospel]

not even sure what we're arguing about here.

if we end up with like say pick 4 and we go QB there, then yeah, i'd agree that maybe forcing the pick isn't ideal. but, if we have a top 2 pick, it's going QB whether it's schoen & daboll or whoever the new gm and/or coach are. there's a 0% chance they go anything but QB.

[blue and orange]

What a **** call. Refs really gonna decide the game there, the defender had his hands on Cousins and literally let up to not draw a flag. Goodell needs to get harassed after that call. That should be reviewable.

So who gets the number 1 pick if both Giants and Raiders lose out.

[MrDollarBills]

Watch on YouTube

Apparently the Giants PR team contacted Bobby Skinner from the Talking Giants at 8:30 on Sunday night, complaining about his video where he lays out a 100% factual argument as to why Joe Schoen needs to be fired. The video was posted in this thread if you haven't seen it. They allegedly threatened to revoke them of their credentials.

This is disgusting and an indictment on how f*cked this franchise has become over the last several years. They're worried about Podcasters instead of the product on the field????

I can't help but think that the real reasons as to why this video drew the Giants ire is because:

1) Mara is planning on retaining Schoen.

2) Skinner highlighted the fact that Mara's nephew was promoted to a position of critical importance (i believe head of player development) despite the team being ass water for 12 YEARS.

Nah man. This is embarrassing and it's a bad sign. Even if the plan is to allow Schoen another chance, why the hell are you concerned about podcasters?

If Mara and co can't handle a podcaster telling the truth about them what do you think will happen if Shedeur comes here? You think guys are gonna keep quiet if things are still being run like a 3rd rate poverty franchise?????

[MrDollarBills]

Mara is a clown. People with bags over their heads, opposing fans buying tickets for 9 dollars to fill up Metlife, airplanes flying overhead and you're worried about a f*cking podcaster????

I hate this. What the f*ck happened to our team?????? How did we go from winning two championships to this????? From Hard Knocks to this, the entire front office needs to be set on fire

[Strick]

We are a dumpster fire. Complaining about video detailing why the GM and to a lesser extent, the HC should be fired is ridiculous. They laid out move after move and decision after decision. They also highlighted good moves but there simply aren’t nearly many as the sh*t moves.

If I were to guess the biggest issue with the video is them mentioning the nepotism in house with Tim McDonnell. Mara’s nephew rises the ranks and does absolutely nothing of value. He is on scouting visits this and that… 12 years with the organization and conveniently we have been trash for just over 12 years outside of some fluke years

This is going to get uglier before it gets better I fear

[MrDollarBills]

We are a dumpster fire. Complaining about video detailing why the GM and to a lesser extent, the HC should be fired is ridiculous. They laid out move after move and decision after decision. They also highlighted good moves but there simply aren’t nearly many as the sh*t moves.

If I were to guess the biggest issue with the video is them mentioning the nepotism in house with Tim McDonnell. Mara’s nephew rises the ranks and does absolutely nothing of value. He is on scouting visits this and that… 12 years with the organization and conveniently we have been trash for just over 12 years outside of some fluke years

This is going to get uglier before it gets better I fear

The video, and I implore every Giants fan to watch it, wasn't some unhinged rant by a fan. It was a fact by fact dissection of how inept Schoen is at his job. It was fair and credible analysis.

The roster is BAD. 2 out of 3 drafts have yielded below average talent at multiple positions. We let multiple good players go and haven't remotely replaced them.

This has nothing to do with Daniel Jones. Schoen doesn't know how to construct a roster or find talent. The team is 2 and 12. A cleansing is in order.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It really is a mess. All signs point to Schoen coming back. It's tough when the main issues stem from ownership.

[GONYK]

To be fair, it's hard to evaluate a team that doesn't have a QB. Everything revolves around that. Nothing materially changed about the Bengals a few years ago or the Commanders this year or any other host of teams that went from basement dwellers to competent other than getting the right QB and building around him.

It affects everything.

[mpharris36]

It really is a mess. All signs point to Schoen coming back. It's tough when the main issues stem from ownership.

So the video was pretty interesting and the Giants trying to get involved says a few things.

1. Daboll is likely gone (they specifically called about the Joe Schoen should be fired video". THey obviously are/were leaning on keeping Schoen but there might just be too much momentum to clean house.

2. It sounds like the Daniel Jones decision was more pressure from Ownership (Mara) which I think we always said optically after making the playoffs Mara and ownership didn't want to sell "step back" to the fan base so they paid him. Sounds like they aren't holding Schoen accountable for that because there was plenty of ownership influence to get that deal done.

3. The video was focusing on all the other moves Schoen has come up short with. So they even excluded Daniel Jones decision from his resume because they basically forced that move on him. But if you look at his drafting and roster management outside of that there have been way more misses than hits.

This could get real ugly because Giants fans want accountability and no half measures but there reaction to this fire Joe Schoen video suggest they are still thinking about bringing him back...but 3 more weeks to go and it can always get worse and there might be too much fan pressure on Mara not to clean house.

[mpharris36]

To be fair, it's hard to evaluate a team that doesn't have a QB. Everything revolves around that. Nothing materially changed about the Bengals a few years ago or the Commanders this year or any other host of teams that went from basement dwellers to competent other than getting the right QB and building around him.

It affects everything.

It does 100% however I think you can evaluate every more individually. Obviously you can see Nabers is a good player even if he hasn't been working with a good QB.

But the other selections. What does Kayvon draft selection have to do with the QB? Does he look like a difference maker? What about Evan Neal? What about Deonte Banks? Wandale Robinson is nothing short of a mediocre slot WR that isn't always healthy (that was a premium 2nd rond pick).

JMS hasn't been good and if you are picking a center in the 2nd round he better be a difference maker.

Hyatt can't get on the field on a bad team...they traded up for him.

Yes the QB situation is rotten...and it seems ownership played a big role in that and they are admitting they aren't holding that on Schoen...but what about the 3 years of acquiring talent? The draft classes have been bad.

[Ghetto Gospel]

To be fair, it's hard to evaluate a team that doesn't have a QB. Everything revolves around that. Nothing materially changed about the Bengals a few years ago or the Commanders this year or any other host of teams that went from basement dwellers to competent other than getting the right QB and building around him.

It affects everything.

eh, we can certainly evaluate defense on teams that don't have a QB. we can also say with certainty that evan neal was a bust. really it's just the receivers/te and whoever the coach that's calling the plays that have a difficult eval. this team is definitely bad and is lacking significantly in talent

[mpharris36]

they did a list of the giants top 10 players and its pretty stark looking at the Giants compared to other teams.

1. Dexter Lawerence
2. Andrew Thomas
3. Malik Nabers
4. Brian Burns
5. Bobby Okereke (bad year)
6. Kayvon Thibodeaux
7. Darius Slayton
8. Jermaine Eluemunor
9. Tyrone Tracy
10. Wandale Robinson

How many guys crack the list from 3 Schoen draft classes (you could maybe make a case Dru Phillips could be a good slot corner). Nabers seemed like a no brainer...Thibs has been ok but far from impact from a top 5 pick. Tracy has shown some nice things. And Wandale is an ok slot WR but nothing special.

But you are missing Neal, Ezuedu, Bellinger, Flott, Banks, JMS, Hyatt

And the two best players on the Giants by far aren't even Schoen doing. And Gettleman was an awful GM as well.

[Strick]

It really is a mess. All signs point to Schoen coming back. It's tough when the main issues stem from ownership.

So the video was pretty interesting and the Giants trying to get involved says a few things.

1. Daboll is likely gone (they specifically called about the Joe Schoen should be fired video". THey obviously are/were leaning on keeping Schoen but there might just be too much momentum to clean house.

2. It sounds like the Daniel Jones decision was more pressure from Ownership (Mara) which I think we always said optically after making the playoffs Mara and ownership didn't want to sell "step back" to the fan base so they paid him. Sounds like they aren't holding Schoen accountable for that because there was plenty of ownership influence to get that deal done.

3. The video was focusing on all the other moves Schoen has come up short with. So they even excluded Daniel Jones decision from his resume because they basically forced that move on him. But if you look at his drafting and roster management outside of that there have been way more misses than hits.

This could get real ugly because Giants fans want accountability and no half measures but there reaction to this fire Joe Schoen video suggest they are still thinking about bringing him back...but 3 more weeks to go and it can always get worse and there might be too much fan pressure on Mara not to clean house.

We need something Joe Judge QB sneak on 2nd and 3rd down on our own goal line level of bad to happen in the next few weeks

It’s pathetic it might need to come to something that bad for a complete overhaul but here we are. It’s interesting to me that if they would keep one of the two, they’d opt to keep Schoen potentially. Daboll definitely has his faults but he did bring us to a playoff birth before our active GM really had any influence on the current roster lol

I’ve seen nothing to justify bringing either back personally and I’m not normally someone who jumps to clean house the first chance we get

[Ghetto Gospel]

they did a list of the giants top 10 players and its pretty stark looking at the Giants compared to other teams.

1. Dexter Lawerence
2. Andrew Thomas
3. Malik Nabers
4. Brian Burns
5. Bobby Okereke (bad year)
6. Kayvon Thibodeaux
7. Darius Slayton
8. Jermaine Eluemunor
9. Tyrone Tracy
10. Wandale Robinson

How many guys crack the list from 3 Schoen draft classes (you could maybe make a case Dru Phillips could be a good slot corner). Nabers seemed like a no brainer...Thibs has been ok but far from impact from a top 5 pick. Tracy has shown some nice things. And Wandale is an ok slot WR but nothing special.

But you are missing Neal, Ezuedu, Bellinger, Flott, Banks, JMS, Hyatt

And the two best players on the Giants by far aren't even Schoen doing. And Gettleman was an awful GM as well.

this top 10 doesn't look good at all

andrew thomas is concerning given his recent injuries. i also recall at the time the reason he signed his extension so fast was that he wanted to get it done quickly because he was concerned about all of his injuries and wanted to guarantee the money.

tyrone tracy is nice if you ignore his fumble issues.

wandale robinson is basically that short, quicker than fast white receiver that every other team drafts in the 6th round but for whatever reason schoen decided to reach for in the 2nd

not only are the best players from gettleman, but this team got worse under joe schoen than it ever was under gettleman.

[mpharris36]

they did a list of the giants top 10 players and its pretty stark looking at the Giants compared to other teams.

1. Dexter Lawerence
2. Andrew Thomas
3. Malik Nabers
4. Brian Burns
5. Bobby Okereke (bad year)
6. Kayvon Thibodeaux
7. Darius Slayton
8. Jermaine Eluemunor
9. Tyrone Tracy
10. Wandale Robinson

How many guys crack the list from 3 Schoen draft classes (you could maybe make a case Dru Phillips could be a good slot corner). Nabers seemed like a no brainer...Thibs has been ok but far from impact from a top 5 pick. Tracy has shown some nice things. And Wandale is an ok slot WR but nothing special.

But you are missing Neal, Ezuedu, Bellinger, Flott, Banks, JMS, Hyatt

And the two best players on the Giants by far aren't even Schoen doing. And Gettleman was an awful GM as well.

this top 10 doesn't look good at all

andrew thomas is concerning given his recent injuries. i also recall at the time the reason he signed his extension so fast was that he wanted to get it done quickly because he was concerned about all of his injuries and wanted to guarantee the money.

tyrone tracy is nice if you ignore his fumble issues.

wandale robinson is basically that short, quicker than fast white receiver that every other team drafts in the 6th round but for whatever reason schoen decided to reach for in the 2nd

not only are the best players from gettleman, but this team got worse under joe schoen than it ever was under gettleman.

Its pretty much the same in my eye. The only thing better is our salary cap situation. I don't think people realize the **** cap situation we were wit Gettleman and that was with a rookie QB on the roster. He kept kicking the can down the road and really did start Schoen off to a horrible start the first year or 2 having to manage guys like Oliver Vernon and Kenny Golladay that murdered our cap because Gettleman was on the hot seat so he fit a bunch of players in during those final seasons and then the dead cap hits were way up there even without paying a QB.

So our cap situation especially once DJ is finally off the books will be actually pretty clean. So that is ok...but the drafting has been a disaster. Most of the FA moves haven't been good outside of like Okereke (bad year this year good year 1st) and Eluemunor who was a really steady RT when the season started. But thats not saying much.

[mpharris36]

It really is a mess. All signs point to Schoen coming back. It's tough when the main issues stem from ownership.

So the video was pretty interesting and the Giants trying to get involved says a few things.

1. Daboll is likely gone (they specifically called about the Joe Schoen should be fired video". THey obviously are/were leaning on keeping Schoen but there might just be too much momentum to clean house.

2. It sounds like the Daniel Jones decision was more pressure from Ownership (Mara) which I think we always said optically after making the playoffs Mara and ownership didn't want to sell "step back" to the fan base so they paid him. Sounds like they aren't holding Schoen accountable for that because there was plenty of ownership influence to get that deal done.

3. The video was focusing on all the other moves Schoen has come up short with. So they even excluded Daniel Jones decision from his resume because they basically forced that move on him. But if you look at his drafting and roster management outside of that there have been way more misses than hits.

This could get real ugly because Giants fans want accountability and no half measures but there reaction to this fire Joe Schoen video suggest they are still thinking about bringing him back...but 3 more weeks to go and it can always get worse and there might be too much fan pressure on Mara not to clean house.

We need something Joe Judge QB sneak on 2nd and 3rd down on our own goal line level of bad to happen in the next few weeks

It’s pathetic it might need to come to something that bad for a complete overhaul but here we are. It’s interesting to me that if they would keep one of the two, they’d opt to keep Schoen potentially. Daboll definitely has his faults but he did bring us to a playoff birth before our active GM really had any influence on the current roster lol

I’ve seen nothing to justify bringing either back personally and I’m not normally someone who jumps to clean house the first chance we get

I think its mostly because Mara puts the DJ situation on himself. And there front office operated in the 60's and 70's and Schoen modernized the draft process. Now the selections haven't been good but I think they sort of value that for whatever reason.

I think they don't see progress with any young players which is on coaching as well.

My biggest issue is with half measures what coach worth anything is going to want to be hired by Giants with a GM on the hot seat. Another bad year and Schoen is fired potentially and then a new GM has nothing to do with that HC...he might not stay either.

We won't be able to hire any HC worth a dam with the GM on hot seat...so half measures will put us behind the 8-ball.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It really is a mess. All signs point to Schoen coming back. It's tough when the main issues stem from ownership.

So the video was pretty interesting and the Giants trying to get involved says a few things.

1. Daboll is likely gone (they specifically called about the Joe Schoen should be fired video". THey obviously are/were leaning on keeping Schoen but there might just be too much momentum to clean house.

2. It sounds like the Daniel Jones decision was more pressure from Ownership (Mara) which I think we always said optically after making the playoffs Mara and ownership didn't want to sell "step back" to the fan base so they paid him. Sounds like they aren't holding Schoen accountable for that because there was plenty of ownership influence to get that deal done.

3. The video was focusing on all the other moves Schoen has come up short with. So they even excluded Daniel Jones decision from his resume because they basically forced that move on him. But if you look at his drafting and roster management outside of that there have been way more misses than hits.

This could get real ugly because Giants fans want accountability and no half measures but there reaction to this fire Joe Schoen video suggest they are still thinking about bringing him back...but 3 more weeks to go and it can always get worse and there might be too much fan pressure on Mara not to clean house.

The worst thing they can do is win a game and move down to like the 7th pick.

Yea, Daboll is likely gone as he should be. Sometimes it’s tough to know what’s going on behind the scenes. I’m sure it didn’t show everything but hard knocks gave us a glimpse. It came off really bad especially looking back. It’s a circus and they all came off oblivious.

Overall just too many bad decisions. And this really is the perfect time for a fresh start and clean split. We have no control….hopefully things work out somehow.

[TerrenceClarke]

I have no problem with Giants contacting Talking Giants…..because it reveals their hand.

We now know for fact….they are aware of all the negative things being said about them, and they have a pulse on the ground….how mad the Giants Fan base is. I would assume the online chatter amongst the fan base is pretty much in unison they want both gone. Doubt to many people are wanting them to return.

Talking Giants are not tye only ones saying this. They just happen to be one of, if not the biggest fan channel for the G Men. They are watching the other ones as well.

The fact they are aware zzzzgives a chance that they fold and fire Schoen as well, because at the end of the day…. no matter how much they may like him, if him staying is bad business or PR, they will can him and move on.

The giants are watching the fans right now…. So all that means to me is the fans need to keep the foot on the gas and keep applying pressure. That plane is flying again this weekend. So get your pop corn ready.

[GONYK]

It really is a mess. All signs point to Schoen coming back. It's tough when the main issues stem from ownership.

So the video was pretty interesting and the Giants trying to get involved says a few things.

1. Daboll is likely gone (they specifically called about the Joe Schoen should be fired video". THey obviously are/were leaning on keeping Schoen but there might just be too much momentum to clean house.

2. It sounds like the Daniel Jones decision was more pressure from Ownership (Mara) which I think we always said optically after making the playoffs Mara and ownership didn't want to sell "step back" to the fan base so they paid him. Sounds like they aren't holding Schoen accountable for that because there was plenty of ownership influence to get that deal done.

3. The video was focusing on all the other moves Schoen has come up short with. So they even excluded Daniel Jones decision from his resume because they basically forced that move on him. But if you look at his drafting and roster management outside of that there have been way more misses than hits.

This could get real ugly because Giants fans want accountability and no half measures but there reaction to this fire Joe Schoen video suggest they are still thinking about bringing him back...but 3 more weeks to go and it can always get worse and there might be too much fan pressure on Mara not to clean house.

This is what I started to suspect after I saw the way the FO started to operate once the decision to bench Jones was made and why I am fairly bullish on Schoen coming back and possibly Daboll