PG: Knicks vs. Warriors: Pathetic.

[3toheadmelo]

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[RHODEY]

Mitch is back for 3 games and has played about 35 minutes. KAT has missed one of those games and possibly more. We played 2 games ALL SEASON at full strength and won both of those in comeback fashion. We choked away the one game KAT missed. I think we need to wait and see who needs to do what and when right now. We need KAT no matter what and, his recent situation may impact that for a few games.

This team has not been able to build any consistency at any point in this season. Precious missed 20+ games. Shamet missed 30ish games. Deuce missed 10+ games. Payne missed 6-7 games. Mitch missed 58 games. We are 40-21 after all of that. There's quite a bit of talent here obviously. The erratic playing time has been a problem all year. Hopefully we can find some stability before the regular season ends and the playoffs begin.

Right we have never really been at full strength...and you can see Mitch is nowhere near primed yet...but the impact is like night and day already.

[Gravy]

The team might be in a lull with what KAT is going through. He was really off the last two games he played.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Mitch is back for 3 games and has played about 35 minutes. KAT has missed one of those games and possibly more. We played 2 games ALL SEASON at full strength and won both of those in comeback fashion. We choked away the one game KAT missed. I think we need to wait and see who needs to do what and when right now. We need KAT no matter what and, his recent situation may impact that for a few games.

This team has not been able to build any consistency at any point in this season. Precious missed 20+ games. Shamet missed 30ish games. Deuce missed 10+ games. Payne missed 6-7 games. Mitch missed 58 games. We are 40-21 after all of that. There's quite a bit of talent here obviously. The erratic playing time has been a problem all year. Hopefully we can find some stability before the regular season ends and the playoffs begin.

Right we have never really been at full strength...and you can see Mitch is nowhere near primed yet...but the impact is like night and day already.

We really haven't even begun to see what this team can do yet. 61 games in. Trade Mikal/Hart/KAT/Deuce/Mitch yada yada yada. Zero patience. The only consistency this season has been inconsistent rotations. The bench has been injured for the entire season until three games ago. Now we are without KAT for personal reasons.

21 games to go before the playoffs. We need to see the team get some momentum going soon.

[knicks94]

Josh Hart playing like the Knicks version of Jalen Rose really does not help this team.

[dakomish23]

Curry Butler Green is going to be a tough out in the playoffs for any team. Cerebral, all 3 move off the ball, all know the little tricks of the trade to maximize what they got left. If Paj & Kuminga can be solid support guys, they might make a WCF run. All they really need is a pretty competent center

[mpharris36]

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this isn't good...can't be happening...

looks like shamet and payne got mixed up on the first one and I don't know what happened on the second one...after a FT doesn't everyone point to who they have???

[Iron Mantis]

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this isn't good...can't be happening...

looks like shamet and payne got mixed up on the first one and I don't know what happened on the second one...after a FT doesn't everyone point to who they have???

That happened last night because every Knicks player has 9 toes in the paint to make up for KAT's lack of rim protection.

[Jalen Bluntson]

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this isn't good...can't be happening...

looks like shamet and payne got mixed up on the first one and I don't know what happened on the second one...after a FT doesn't everyone point to who they have???

OG was caught in the middle of both breakdowns. Bridges was making out with Podz and there was a wide open player while OG was guarding air in the paint. Payne left the ball handler and OG gets trapped between him and the open player again guarding air in no mans land.

[Chanel Bomber]

Hart tricked everyone, he was making threes, then regression to the mean popped up. He's basically unplayable if there's a center on the floor with him that can't shoot.

It's not necessarily his fault individually, but the offense just can't function with two non-floor spacers.

Katz highlighted it by breaking down lineup data recently on KFS.

Hart and Mitch's minutes need to be staggered. If we intend to play Hart starter minutes, then Mitch can only play backup minutes behind KAT. And if we do need more rim protection/size, then Hart's minutes need to be significantly reduced.

This is 2025.

All fair points. I agree Hart needs to basically be attached to KAT minutes...and Mitch with Deuce or someone else that can shoot to provide enough spacing.

I do find it interesting that Butler/Draymond don't really take or attempt many 3's and because of the sets Kerr runs GS didn't have as much trouble in getting open looks like we did.

They use Draymond as an off ball screener so much to free up shooters like Curry/Hield because people play off him and they use that against them. We just have Hart stand around the 3 pt line doing nothing for most of the possession.

We could get more creative to use people sagging off Hart against them but our offense is very ISO centric and values more spacing and standing and letting Brunson/KAT cook then running guys off screens ect...

Interesting thoughts.

I agree we could be a bit more creative but we don't have the elite shooters whereby an off-ball screen creates urgency for the defense.

Perhaps Hart could screen for KAT - our best shooter - off the ball. But then that removes the option of KAT screening for Brunson, which is theoretically and in a vacuum our best source of offense (an underused one).

Thibs has obviously tried to remedy this by using Hart as a ball-handler, a solid option considering Hart's size and basketball IQ, and as a cutter.

Perhaps sprinkling in some possessions where Hart screens for KAT off the ball could - to your point - add diversity while still mitigating Hart's lack of shooting.

Kerr's a superior coach to Thibs, but Draymond and Curry are also smarter basketball players than Brunson and KAT. An isolation offense helps limit turnovers and reduce mistakes, and I don't know if this team has the feel for the game to run a more complex offense. I think it's both coaching and personnel.

[snadler]

Let me first start by saying Thibs is not the perfect coach, but to read some comments that actually think a different coach under the same circumstances of players being injured throughout the season like OG, mitch, precious, deuce, including games missed by hart and KAT, that another coach would have this team say 45-16, as opposed to 40-21 is just foolish talk. Adding in the fact of it being basically a new squad together, you can argue their record is better than it should be. Any determination on this season and Thibs can not be made to the playoffs. If they lose in round 1 or make it to round 2 and get swept than the discussion of a new coach should be justified.

[mpharris36]

It's not necessarily his fault individually, but the offense just can't function with two non-floor spacers.

Katz highlighted it by breaking down lineup data recently on KFS.

Hart and Mitch's minutes need to be staggered. If we intend to play Hart starter minutes, then Mitch can only play backup minutes behind KAT. And if we do need more rim protection/size, then Hart's minutes need to be significantly reduced.

This is 2025.

All fair points. I agree Hart needs to basically be attached to KAT minutes...and Mitch with Deuce or someone else that can shoot to provide enough spacing.

I do find it interesting that Butler/Draymond don't really take or attempt many 3's and because of the sets Kerr runs GS didn't have as much trouble in getting open looks like we did.

They use Draymond as an off ball screener so much to free up shooters like Curry/Hield because people play off him and they use that against them. We just have Hart stand around the 3 pt line doing nothing for most of the possession.

We could get more creative to use people sagging off Hart against them but our offense is very ISO centric and values more spacing and standing and letting Brunson/KAT cook then running guys off screens ect...

Interesting thoughts.

I agree we could be a bit more creative but we don't have the elite shooters whereby an off-ball screen creates urgency for the defense.

Perhaps Hart could screen for KAT - our best shooter - off the ball. But then that removes the option of KAT screening for Brunson, which is theoretically and in a vacuum our best source of offense (an underused one).

Thibs has obviously tried to remedy this by using Hart as a ball-handler, a solid option considering Hart's size and basketball IQ, and as a cutter.

Perhaps sprinkling in some possessions where Hart screens for KAT off the ball could - to your point - add diversity while still mitigating Hart's lack of shooting.

Kerr's a superior coach to Thibs, but Draymond and Curry are also smarter basketball players than Brunson and KAT. An isolation offense helps limit turnovers and reduce mistakes, and I don't know if this team has the feel for the game to run a more complex offense. I think it's both coaching and personnel.

Yeah Curry's offensive gravity is unmatched so it would never be the same (the amount of layups they get because teams are worried about Curry come off a screen is wild per game). But we can find ways to do more off ball moving/screening to free up our shooters.

KAT opens up so much for us...and was basically directly part of the reason people were saying Hart could make the all-star game. So his impact is certainly missed not just him but the gravity KAT provides on offense.

Also in terms of shot profile (with KAT out)...brunson and maybe Deuce and a little Payne are the only ones that take ATB 3's. Mikal has no range in that area and OG mostly is corner 3 guy. KAT that is where most of his 3's come from so without him teams can take away corner 3's and we don't have much going for us outside of Brunson attacking.

[spree8]

Let me first start by saying Thibs is not the perfect coach, but to read some comments that actually think a different coach under the same circumstances of players being injured throughout the season like OG, mitch, precious, deuce, including games missed by hart and KAT, that another coach would have this team say 45-16, as opposed to 40-21 is just foolish talk. Adding in the fact of it being basically a new squad together, you can argue their record is better than it should be. Any determination on this season and Thibs can not be made to the playoffs. If they lose in round 1 or make it to round 2 and get swept than the discussion of a new coach should be justified.

You really believe if this team was coached by any one of Spo, Udoka, Kerr, or Dag, that we’d have the same glaring weaknesses on both ends or the same record? I don’t see any universe where that’s even a remote a possibility. I don’t know how one could quantify how many more wins that would amount to, but it absolutely would be more, and the outlook on the coming playoffs certainly wouldn’t be as bleak as it is now.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We need everyone available to beat good teams. Period. We aren't invincible and we haven't been healthy all season. The Lakers are going to be a real challenge if KAT isn't there. Unfortunately, the real world has more important things going on than basketball right now. Hope it all works out for everyone involved.

[HEZI]

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[knicks94]

We need everyone available to beat good teams. Period. We aren't invincible and we haven't been healthy all season. The Lakers are going to be a real challenge if KAT isn't there. Unfortunately, the real world has more important things going on than basketball right now. Hope it all works out for everyone involved.

I believe that if Thibs cannot get this team to win without KAT they should get rid of him, unless we make the Eastern Conference finals.

[Jeff Van Gully]

my best to KAT and his loved ones.

[kNicksGmen]

Let me first start by saying Thibs is not the perfect coach, but to read some comments that actually think a different coach under the same circumstances of players being injured throughout the season like OG, mitch, precious, deuce, including games missed by hart and KAT, that another coach would have this team say 45-16, as opposed to 40-21 is just foolish talk. Adding in the fact of it being basically a new squad together, you can argue their record is better than it should be. Any determination on this season and Thibs can not be made to the playoffs. If they lose in round 1 or make it to round 2 and get swept than the discussion of a new coach should be justified.

knicks have had incredible injury fortune. best in the league in terms of games missed by critical rotation players.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Let me first start by saying Thibs is not the perfect coach, but to read some comments that actually think a different coach under the same circumstances of players being injured throughout the season like OG, mitch, precious, deuce, including games missed by hart and KAT, that another coach would have this team say 45-16, as opposed to 40-21 is just foolish talk. Adding in the fact of it being basically a new squad together, you can argue their record is better than it should be. Any determination on this season and Thibs can not be made to the playoffs. If they lose in round 1 or make it to round 2 and get swept than the discussion of a new coach should be justified.

We can make a determination on Thibs, because it's always the same problems with the team regardless of what the roster is. We have given up open looks from threes since he's been here, we have always prioritized protecting the paint first and the perimeter second. The difference is that teams are hunting for threes and making them at a better rate than they did before. We've been top 5 in defense 1 time in his 5 years here, we've been 3rd, 19th, 11th, 10th and 19th. His defense hasn't really adapted to the shift in the league, last season before Mitch got hurt he had a 130 DRTG against the Celtics starting mainly because he kept defending Kristaps with Mitch and never ever tried anything different.

I won't be too critical of Mitch since he's coming back from an injury, but he had a 140 DRTG last night and that really wasn't his fault, it's that Tom's defense is always close to breaking when a team has a stretch 5, or an unconventional big like Draymond. It doesn't help that we don't do anything outside the box that other teams do to us. Jimmy is shooting 10% from three since joining the Warriors, you park Mitch/Our centers on him and have them help off, if Jimmy is going to make threes then as the Brits say "fair play" and you put OG on Draymond so he can switch whenever there's screen action. We don't do any of that, we negate our own center's impact by having Mitch on Draymond which is exactly what they want because it pulls him out of the paint. They were getting open look after open look from three in the first half, it was like shooting practice, if they shot even average from three we'd have gotten blown out in the first half.


I won't even get into how much a joke the offense is, it's simply talent based and nothing else. The stuff the Warriors were doing last night with 2 non shooters on the floor just blows us our primitive "sets" out the water. We are 6th in the league in frequency of shots coming 4-0 seconds left in the shot clock, which is very late, and 3rd in 7-4 seconds which is late. Also funny how Podz has more freedom on ball than Mikal

[dakomish23]

Butler's shooting in the 10 games since the trade have been AWFUL. But he just makes smart game winning plays. They're not going to be an easy out

16.3 PPG 5.3 RPG 5.3 APG 1.1 SPG
44.0% on 10.9 FGA
10.0% on 2.0 3PA
86.7% on 7.5 FTA
45% EFG 57.4% TS