PG: KNICKS vs Mavs - Welcome To The NBA, McCullar

[cgf]

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The mitch effect

[robillionaire]

I say this as someone who was CLAMORING for us to draft Kolek and think he's a good player, I'm not really sure where the minutes were supposed to come from this season...

The Knicks have been GOOD with Payne and Deuce on the floor. They are a +9.7 Net together. Even with Payne and without Deuce we're at +9.3 Net.

Cam Payne counting stats may not look awesome but he's been really important for us because he's a willing shooter on a team that can sometimes shy away from shooting and he's an energy guy on a team that lacks it. And there's no way Kolek was taking Deuce's minutes.

There's really been no pure basketball reason to insert Kolek into the rotation outside of maybe the one week Brunson was hurt and he didn't play.

I'm glad Kolek is taking his opportunity and at least looks ready to contribute as a rookie. Maybe this will spur the organization to have trust for him being the backup next season.

This is pretty much my outlook and thanks for bringing up the stats

As bad as our depth has been at times, that’s mostly been at the position of the wings and bigs. We had a bit of a logjam with the guards

But I think this was the long term plan the team had in mind. That’s how they did it with Deuce

[thebuzzardman]

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Especially cause he plays well in big games, and the Knicks don't need a large rotation during the playoffs, I think people are underrating how good this Knicks team could be in the playoffs.

Almost as good as Grimes at 10x the cost

[robillionaire]

It sucks that these kids haven't been ready to contribute this year, but this draft class could provide some nice depth in time if they develop well.


Would've been nice if any of them could've kept Thibs from using his bench 20% less than he ever has before, but our depth was always going to be a problem this season and fortunately we seem to have survived the worst of now that Precious / Shamet / Mitch are rounding into form, and by next season hopefully at least one of those kids is ready to take that step.

It could have been done more this year, and next year it would take a different coach to come in with a Kenny Atkinson-like approach to bench minutes, to really develop the 4 rookies into rotation guys . To make it happen much faster than Thibs would.

Maybe, or rushing them may have stunted their growth instead of the progress we have seen from the GL time and work with our developmental staff...especially if it was costing us wins and people were getting mad at Thibs for 'wasting time developing kids when we should be contending'.

Developing young talent is as much about nurturing their confidence as it is improving their skills & teaching them how to implement those skills in games, and we've seen with barrett, Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, McBride, Sims, Hukporti, etc. that when we've had a need like we did this season and kids who were ready to play without being set up too fail, Thibs was happy to give them minutes.

All 4 won't develop into rotation guys next year no matter what, but we shouldn't need them to...we started the season with 3 of our current bench guys injured and a lot of roster tumult. If we enter next season with continuity that would mean Robinson, Achiuwa, taxpayer MLE, Shamet, and McBride behind the starters.

So the kids should just need to provide injury insurance until they are ready to take minutes from those established bench guys...like Kolek will hopefully do, pushing Deuce to the 2 and squeezing Shamet & Precious out.

Yeah that’s the way I hope it shakes out. Let Precious Payne and Shamet walk. Coming off the bench Kolek and Mitch, Hukporti ready to fill in for Mitch when we trade Mitch for an upgrade to the bench. Keep McBride for flexibility. I dunno what we have with McCullar or Dadiet but I’m not banking anything on them yet. And then try to bring in cheap vet and someone with MLE. I’d roll with the same starters probably.

[Gravy]

One assist away from three guys with 10 assists is a crazy night for the offense but the Mavs play no defense so not sure what to take from that.

Mcullar had a really strong NBA move to score his first points. If he was healthy this season he may have had the best chance out of the rookies to get in the rotation.

Yeah they weren’t even trying on defense. But with that said I do think we played with a lot more energy than usual. Had a little extra bounce in our step, lift on shots. Idk maybe just my imagination.

McCullar is still a big mystery to me since he’s been injured for a couple years now but it was nice to see him get the bucket and have the team celebrate it that way

Uplifting win for sure

I dont remember the team celebrating like that for the other rookies first points! McCullar looked really good in g league I'm eager to see if his skills can translate into being a two way NBA player with that size at 6'6.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I say this as someone who was CLAMORING for us to draft Kolek and think he's a good player, I'm not really sure where the minutes were supposed to come from this season...

The Knicks have been GOOD with Payne and Deuce on the floor. They are a +9.7 Net together. Even with Payne and without Deuce we're at +9.3 Net.

Cam Payne counting stats may not look awesome but he's been really important for us because he's a willing shooter on a team that can sometimes shy away from shooting and he's an energy guy on a team that lacks it. And there's no way Kolek was taking Deuce's minutes.

There's really been no pure basketball reason to insert Kolek into the rotation outside of maybe the one week Brunson was hurt and he didn't play.

I'm glad Kolek is taking his opportunity and at least looks ready to contribute as a rookie. Maybe this will spur the organization to have trust for him being the backup next season.

Yep

Nope.

We were running our starters into the ground for no reason. We weren't using our bench all season long. There were plenty of opportunities to give players minutes. Thibs just didn't do it.

[rajajackal]

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when's the last time we had an exciting #9? prigioni?

[prophet_of_rage]

You’re telling me kolek has damn near 20 assists with 0 turnovers over the last two games in under 40 mins of action but there was absolutely no way he could contribute 10-12 mins a night all season? That’s what you’re telling me Tom?

It reeks of deuce averaging 4 mpg and having 20 DNP prior to IQ getting traded. Then he becomes a key rotation player overnight. Hmm maybe they could’ve been rotation players all along

Like Deuce they could also be keeping his value low.

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[prophet_of_rage]

We've been watching cam payne chuck deep 3s all season when we could have been playing mark price 2.0. Add another reason to the fire thibs.

I bet Hul, Dadiet (or McCullar), and Kolek could give us more now and in the future than the other guys playing in front of them. Thibs can’t see past today.

I wonder if vet mins also has to do with agent agreements. Cause its ridiculous these kids don't play a lil more. I just have a hard time believing there isn't a consensus.

The NBA is a favours league.

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[prophet_of_rage]

I wonder if vet mins also has to do with agent agreements. Cause its ridiculous these kids don't play a lil more. I just have a hard time believing there isn't a consensus.

you can even be selective about it. You play enough of the dregs of the NBA along with b2b where we could have been selective on when we add them to the rotation.

Thibs has always been this way...he has an 8-9 man rotation and unless there is a injury no one is cracking that rotation especially a rookie regardless of development.

Im trying to understand how leon is cool with this sht.

Winning and keeping costs low.

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[Jalen Bluntson]

You’re telling me kolek has damn near 20 assists with 0 turnovers over the last two games in under 40 mins of action but there was absolutely no way he could contribute 10-12 mins a night all season? That’s what you’re telling me Tom?

It reeks of deuce averaging 4 mpg and having 20 DNP prior to IQ getting traded. Then he becomes a key rotation player overnight. Hmm maybe they could’ve been rotation players all along

Like Deuce they could also be keeping his value low.

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This never happened.

[prophet_of_rage]

If next season's rotation replaces Payne/Shamet/Precious with Kolek/Mccullar/Hukporti...and Mitch is healthy from day one. I like that rotation better than this season's already. I suspect Rose will try to make a move or two using what limited tools he has, but I've seen enough flashes from Kolek and Hukporti to be hype about their growth. Mccullar's college tape says enough for me too.

...Dadiet...can't win 'em all. Give him an offseason and see how his development goes.

Dadiet wasn't supposed to be here this year. He forced his way here.

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[thebuzzardman]

Knicks model under the Leon/Thibs regime has pretty much been "put a vet in front of the young guy for at least a year while the young guy develops", then the young player gets a chance.

Seems to be the same model for Kolek, even though the team is crying out for another creator/organizer.

McCullars was hurt, never got the opportunity, but again, it was to be a year of learning behind Shamet.
Dadiet feels like a longer term project.

Hukporti had to sit and learn behind KAT and Sims. To some extent Mitch, but I'm not even sure both were healthy at the same time.

It's the way this FO and coach operates. You'd think when the minutes were out of hand for the starters they might have been more flexible, but that word isn't in Thibs vocabulary.

[spree8]

There’s a whole lot of excuse making in here about playing time for Kolek and a lot of people who’ve conveniently forgotten how this season has played out.

Now we’re resorting to saying giving Kolek playing time would’ve hurt his development? That’s pretty wild. Dude is a 23 year old/college senior, not a 18 year old kid out of high school. I could understand that more with Dadiet but not Tyler.

We’re 71 games in, and Brunson has missed 10 games, Deuce missed 12 games, and Cam hasn’t played in 6. Kolek has only played less than half the games this season at 5 minutes on average. Shamet was also out half the season. There was time for Kolek.

Thibs responded to injuries by just shortening the rotation. His first mistake from day 1 was starting Hart. With a lack of wings, that was a dumb decision. Add that to Mikal at the POA instead of Deuce who should’ve started, and that just adds to this issue.

Brunson (33 mpg) | Kolek (15 mpg)
Deuce (30 mpg) | Cam (15 mpg) | Bridges (3 mpg)
Bridges (30 mpg) | Hart (18 mpg)
Anunoby (32 mpg) | Hart (14 mpg) | Precious (2 mpg)
Towns (32 mpg) | Precious (8 mpg) | Huk (8 mpg)

Is something like what we should’ve been running before Shamet came back. When he did, his 12 mpg or so should’ve just cut a bit in to the starters minutes and gave them some rest on back to backs and played more during times they were injured. Huk should’ve been getting Sims minutes when Precious was out too.

[j4remi]

If next season's rotation replaces Payne/Shamet/Precious with Kolek/Mccullar/Hukporti...and Mitch is healthy from day one. I like that rotation better than this season's already. I suspect Rose will try to make a move or two using what limited tools he has, but I've seen enough flashes from Kolek and Hukporti to be hype about their growth. Mccullar's college tape says enough for me too.

...Dadiet...can't win 'em all. Give him an offseason and see how his development goes.

Dadiet wasn't supposed to be here this year. He forced his way here.

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I wouldn't categorize it as "forced his way here." He made a compromise with the FO in order to accept 80% of his rookie contract value when most players get 120%. They drafted him knowing he would be here, but getting a discount in the process.

[cgf]

I say this as someone who was CLAMORING for us to draft Kolek and think he's a good player, I'm not really sure where the minutes were supposed to come from this season...

The Knicks have been GOOD with Payne and Deuce on the floor. They are a +9.7 Net together. Even with Payne and without Deuce we're at +9.3 Net.

Cam Payne counting stats may not look awesome but he's been really important for us because he's a willing shooter on a team that can sometimes shy away from shooting and he's an energy guy on a team that lacks it. And there's no way Kolek was taking Deuce's minutes.

There's really been no pure basketball reason to insert Kolek into the rotation outside of maybe the one week Brunson was hurt and he didn't play.

I'm glad Kolek is taking his opportunity and at least looks ready to contribute as a rookie. Maybe this will spur the organization to have trust for him being the backup next season.

Yep

Nope.

We were running our starters into the ground for no reason. We weren't using our bench all season long. There were plenty of opportunities to give players minutes. Thibs just didn't do it.

We’re talking about our PGs specifically. Kolek wasn’t giving us minutes in the frontcourt, he had to get his minutes from Jalen and Cam.

[Guano]

I didn't know kat PnR was allowed. Why we don't spam this sht makes no sense

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[spree2kawhi]

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Especially cause he plays well in big games, and the Knicks don't need a large rotation during the playoffs, I think people are underrating how good this Knicks team could be in the playoffs.

I say let’s trade him.

[spree2kawhi]

I didn't know kat PnR was allowed. Why we don't spam this sht makes no sense

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!!!

[robillionaire]

You’re telling me kolek has damn near 20 assists with 0 turnovers over the last two games in under 40 mins of action but there was absolutely no way he could contribute 10-12 mins a night all season? That’s what you’re telling me Tom?

It reeks of deuce averaging 4 mpg and having 20 DNP prior to IQ getting traded. Then he becomes a key rotation player overnight. Hmm maybe they could’ve been rotation players all along

Like Deuce they could also be keeping his value low.

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This never happened.

That did happen. But I can’t say for sure if it was by design or not. He didn’t play much or at all and Quickley got all the backup mins. Quickley raised his value really high and we cashed in on that. Almost as soon as we traded Quickley we extended Deuce to another bargain deal and then he began getting big 6th man rotation minutes at a discount. So it was great management by the team

But this doesn’t really apply to Kolek because he’s already locked up until 2028 so there’s no need. More than likely like I said they planned would use this year to get his toes wet have good mentors on the team not throw him to the wolves while Payne handles the backup duties and then if he shows promise he might get his big break next year and that’s what we are seeing