[Camelo Thread Part 8] - NJ Gets Threats From Denver!

[K_ick_God]

I find it interesting/amusing that today was so quiet from the Marc Steins and Wojinas of the world, whose mission in life became making this Melo to Nets trade a reality.

It's like Sheridan and now Broussard came out and called them out, and now they don't know what to say. They're like thinking up their next move, waiting for instructions from Moscow on the next strategy.

I guarantee you they'll keep saying Melo will agree to the trade. Prohkorov is trying to use Jedi mind tricks and seems to have a slice of the media and Leon Rose playing his tune.

They've come too far to back away. They'll say "the Nets remain confident." Part of the strategy is to show Melo how dedicated they are AND to use the idea that they expect the deal to go through in order to pressure Melo. That is to say, if Melo knows that Jay-Z and company are expecting it, he has to back away and disappoint them, waste their time, etc. They hope that this gets him to come close to committing and then the desire to get his extension over with is the final nail in Melo's career coffin.

[towelie]

Whether he will or won't really doesn't make a difference. Him threatening that he will is enough.

It's enough depending on the management in place. If our GM is willing to trade for him as a rental, then the threat obviously isn't enough for him. My guess is he would call his bluff and say leave the $$ on the table. No, I don't expect Melo to be able to land an $18-20M yr deal under the new CBA. Do you? You never answered the question. The answer to that question comes before doing anything else when it comes to taking on the risk of renting a player.

You think Cleveland wanted to give Lebron that sixth year?

Nope. And we also saw that LeBron didn't leave his $$ on the table either. The Cavs still got something for him. You are helping my argument.

By the time the summer rolls around, the threat of the new CBA will be diminished, because much more of it will be known. At the end of the day though, it is a business, and getting what you can is more prudent than risking for more.

This is exactly why I would be shocked to see Melo leave $$ on the table. Again, I don't expect him to be able to get $65M under the new CBA. That's a big risk.

Therefore, you would be trading your young player, pick, and expiring for a TPE and a pick. Is that worth it to you?

It would be worth it to me to get what the Raptors and Cavs got for their star players, who weren't leaving as much $$ on the table as Melo is risking leaving.

How about what Phoenix got for Amar'e (2nd round pick + TPE)? Or what Seattle got for S&T'ing Rashard to Orlando? (2nd round pick + TPE) You're making the erroneous assumption that just because LeBron and Bosh netted 1st round picks for their home teams, that a Melo S&T would net the same. We would have the cap space to sign Melo outright, so trading picks is just a courtesy to the PLAYER to get him slightly higher raises or an additional year (which doesn't even matter in LeBron/Bosh's case cause all 3 of those players will likely opt out to resign a full max contract w/ Bird Rights). There's no obligation on our part to give that up to Houston or Denver. In fact, if you look back in the history of S&T's with teams that already had cap space to sign the player outright, two 1st round picks were never the standard, unless that player was a RFA (ie. Kenyon Martin, Joe Johnson).

[thehandler3]

was the first and 10 debate covered today here?

jemelle hill said to keep felton, chandler, amare off limits in trade, and melo should go 'knicks or bust'

skip bayless says do whatever it takes except amare, including felton...as he said, those other guys are replaceable in 1 way or other whereas its hard to get guys like melo/amare

just thought id share

I watch ESPN First Take everyday so I was happy to see it discussed but didn't think anyone here was fond of the show. I think Jemelle hit the nail on the head except imo Gallo and Chandler are interchangable in the deal from our standpoint. I also probably wouldn't want to include Fields but if push came to shove and I knew he'd go to the Nets if we don't pull the trigger, then I'd add him in the deal. Skip continues to disrespect the talent currently on the roster saying that Felton was easily replaceable (which is ridiculous unless you are replacing with CP3 or Deron). But I like that he felt Amare and Melo would equal great title shot.

[Futureisnow]

I find it interesting/amusing that today was so quiet from the Marc Steins and Wojinas of the world, whose mission in life became making this Melo to Nets trade a reality.

It's like Sheridan and now Broussard came out and called them out, and now they don't know what to say. They're like thinking up their next move, waiting for instructions from Moscow on the next strategy.

I guarantee you they'll keep saying Melo will agree to the trade. Prohkorov is trying to use Jedi mind tricks and seems to have a slice of the media and Leon Rose playing his tune.

They've come too far to back away. They'll say "the Nets remain confident." Part of the strategy is to show Melo how dedicated they are AND to use the idea that they expect the deal to go through in order to pressure Melo. That is to say, if Melo knows that Jay-Z and company are expecting it, he has to back away and disappoint them, waste their time, etc. They hope that this gets him to come close to committing and then the desire to get his extension over with is the final nail in Melo's career coffin.

I also thought it was weird that the two of them said so little today. I didn't go to journalism school, but ya gotta think that it's better for a reporter to cover a story objectively rather than doing everything they can to will a story to be true. Everyone knows the situation is fluid. No harm in admitting that a source was mistaken or that things have changed.

[Falstaffxx]

Was there anything new today? Or basically the same stuff?

[kingmalaki]

If you are fine with a TPE and a pick, then by my guest and trade for Melo.

I would be fine with a TPE and multiple picks, like the Cavs and Raptors got. A TPE helps a team rebuild faster than just an expiring contract. A contract can expire and your team can still be over the cap.

I would also be fine with other parts on your roster, which is what I would bet Morey would want.

So does this mean you won't answer the question? Do you see Melo walking away from a $65M extension to sign with you outright with no idea what the new CBA will look like?

[AllanHoustonFan]

Was there anything new today? Or basically the same stuff?

Trade talks are officially "dormant" according to Broussard.

[GONYK]

If you are fine with a TPE and a pick, then by my guest and trade for Melo.

I would be fine with a TPE and multiple picks, like the Cavs and Raptors got. A TPE helps a team rebuild faster than just an expiring contract. A contract can expire and your team can still be over the cap.

I would also be fine with other parts on your roster, which is what I would bet Morey would want.

So does this mean you won't answer the question? Do you see Melo walking away from a $65M extension to sign with you outright with no idea what the new CBA will look like?

I think the team that has him will S&T him before they ever play a game of chicken with him.

Valid question though: If there is such a king's ransom for him in the summer, why would Denver even trade him for a rental?

[Falstaffxx]

Was there anything new today? Or basically the same stuff?

Trade talks are officially "dormant" according to Broussard.

ty

[kingmalaki]

The Raptors got a huge TE and multiple picks for Bosh. So yes, I would trade an expiring, a player and a NY pick that won't be worth a ton if Melo goes there for the chance to get a large TE later and whatever else it takes to S&T Melo to NY.

Wait, why does Denver make the deal then?

Let's assume Melo becomes a FA. We end up giving a huge TE and 2 draft picks. Maybe AR as well. Why wouldn't Denver want more then that in a deal right now? If we're to assume that Melo would not sign outright and would be sign and traded in a deal, why would Denver happily accept less now and send him to another WCF team then watch Houston do what they should've done?

A) You don't have two draft picks to give. At least not current ones. Now to be fair, I see the reports about your GM trying to acquire a 2012 pick.

B) Yao's deal can come with around $10-11M in instant cash savings. Teams can still market with Yao and he still opens the door to conduct business in China.

C) We have other TE's and expirings for additional salary relief.

[kingmalaki]

If you are fine with a TPE and a pick, then by my guest and trade for Melo.

I'm pretty sure that they would not even get a TPE because the Rockets would be under the cap...it would just be a pick. It makes no sense to trade for Melo from the Rockets' perspective.

No one knows what the cap is and per the salary guys on Clutchfans we won't be under the cap unless we renounce a ton of people. This is exactly why a TPE could have some value to Houston.

[K_ick_God]

Was there anything new today? Or basically the same stuff?

Trade talks are officially "dormant" according to Broussard.

ty

But Broussard said that Melo agreeing to the Nets extension is a "long shot."

[kingmalaki]

How about what Phoenix got for Amar'e (2nd round pick + TPE)?

You could sign him outright, without him losing much money, correct?

Or what Seattle got for S&T'ing Rashard to Orlando? (2nd round pick + TPE)

They could sign him outright, without him losing much money, correct?

You're making the erroneous assumption that just because LeBron and Bosh netted 1st round picks for their home teams, that a Melo S&T would net the same. We would have the cap space to sign Melo outright, so trading picks is just a courtesy to the PLAYER to get him slightly higher raises or an additional year (which doesn't even matter in LeBron/Bosh's case cause all 3 of those players will likely opt out to resign a full max contract w/ Bird Rights). There's no obligation on our part to give that up to Houston or Denver. In fact, if you look back in the history of S&T's with teams that already had cap space to sign the player outright, two 1st round picks were never the standard, unless that player was a RFA (ie. Kenyon Martin, Joe Johnson).

You can sign him outright but not at $18-20M per season, correct? His opt in is $18M. The extension is $65M over 3 years. And no one knows what the new CBA will be but everyone expects a decrease in player salaries. So I think it's fair to say Melo risks losing a lot more $$ than Amare, Lewis, etc. As I asked the other poster, do you expect Melo to sign with NY outright and pass on a $65M extension? Do you think he can get $18-20M per season under the new CBA? Honestly.

[NBA Fan 1234]

If you are fine with a TPE and a pick, then by my guest and trade for Melo.

I'm pretty sure that they would not even get a TPE because the Rockets would be under the cap...it would just be a pick. It makes no sense to trade for Melo from the Rockets' perspective.

No one knows what the cap is and per the salary guys on Clutchfans we won't be under the cap unless we renounce a ton of people. This is exactly why a TPE could have some value to Houston.

40,211,904 - How much the Rockets will have on the books next season (including the players that you would be willing to trade for a rental). That's WAY under the cap.

I could be misunderstanding how a TPE works (maybe it is the total salary after the extension)...even if it is, the Melo extension would put the Rockets close to 58 million for next season - still under the cap.

Does anyone know exactly HOW TPEs work? Sham? Kosmo? Anyone? lol

[kingmalaki]

I think the team that has him will S&T him before they ever play a game of chicken with him.

Valid question though: If there is such a king's ransom for him in the summer, why would Denver even trade him for a rental?

Ok, it sounds like we are in agreement then (on him coming to NY, if he does, via S&T).

To answer your question, I have no clue why the Nuggets won't hold him until the summer if they don't get something they like. Supposedely the "drama" is affecting their season. I think it's fair to say the situation would be different in a different uniform where fans and mgmt know we are just renting you. For example they are booing him in Denver. If he were traded to Houston we would be loving him.

I'm just tryint to note the difference in atmospheres and situations...as far as why Denver might not want to let this linger all year.

[GONYK]

I think the team that has him will S&T him before they ever play a game of chicken with him.

Valid question though: If there is such a king's ransom for him in the summer, why would Denver even trade him for a rental?

Ok, it sounds like we are in agreement then (on him coming to NY, if he does, via S&T).

To answer your question, I have no clue why the Nuggets won't hold him until the summer if they don't get something they like. Supposedely the "drama" is affecting their season. I think it's fair to say the situation would be different in a different uniform where fans and mgmt know we are just renting you. For example they are booing him in Denver. If he were traded to Houston we would be loving him.

I'm just tryint to note the difference in atmospheres and situations...as far as why Denver might not want to let this linger all year.

Fair enough. I live in Houston, and pretty much go to every Rox game. You are right, the city would love him, and he would cause a lot of buzz. Does he make the Rockets a playoff team? Perhaps. If they truly get him for scraps, then yes. Does he make them a contender? No.

If you do trade for him, I would think the overwhelming expectation is that he is going to leave.

[kingmalaki]

40,211,904 - How much the Rockets will have on the books next season (including the players that you would be willing to trade for a rental). That's WAY under the cap.

I could be misunderstanding how a TPE works (maybe it is the total salary after the extension)...even if it is, the Melo extension would put the Rockets close to 58 million for next season - still under the cap.

Does anyone know exactly HOW TPEs work? Sham? Kosmo? Anyone? lol

I'm not a cap expert. Some dude who is on our board has broken all of this down, so I will try to go off memory. Basically players count as cap holds until you give them a new contract or release their rights. In other words Yao and Brooks count against the cap until they are signed or released. Even assuming we traded say Yao for Melo, until Melo is signed or released his $18M still counts against the cap.

So we will have no cap room no matter what.

[kingmalaki]

I think the team that has him will S&T him before they ever play a game of chicken with him.

Valid question though: If there is such a king's ransom for him in the summer, why would Denver even trade him for a rental?

Ok, it sounds like we are in agreement then (on him coming to NY, if he does, via S&T).

To answer your question, I have no clue why the Nuggets won't hold him until the summer if they don't get something they like. Supposedely the "drama" is affecting their season. I think it's fair to say the situation would be different in a different uniform where fans and mgmt know we are just renting you. For example they are booing him in Denver. If he were traded to Houston we would be loving him.

I'm just tryint to note the difference in atmospheres and situations...as far as why Denver might not want to let this linger all year.

Fair enough. I live in Houston, and pretty much go to every Rox game. You are right, the city would love him, and he would cause a lot of buzz. Does he make the Rockets a playoff team? Perhaps. If they truly get him for scraps, then yes. Does he make them a contender? No.

If you do trade for him, I would think the overwhelming expectation is that he is going to leave.

I agree. I think Morey is trying to get involved to benefit from Melo landing in NY. Him landing there obviously impacts us since we have your draft rights. But again, I was just trying to respond to the poster who asked what rental offers could trump NY's.

[towelie]

You can sign him outright but not at $18-20M per season, correct? His opt in is $18M. The extension is $65M over 3 years. And no one knows what the new CBA will be but everyone expects a decrease in player salaries. So I think it's fair to say Melo risks losing a lot more $$ than Amare, Lewis, etc. As I asked the other poster, do you expect Melo to sign with NY outright and pass on a $65M extension? Do you think he can get $18-20M per season under the new CBA? Honestly.

We're talking about S&T's right? If it's a S&T, then it's past July 1st, at which point the new CBA would be in effect (barring lockout). The last date Carmelo can still get his $65M extension is June 30th, at which point the old CBA expires and Melo has to make a decision whether to exercise his option or not.

You seem to be under the misconception that in a S&T over the summer, Carmelo can still get his $18M contract. If Melo becomes a FA, his new contract will have to abide by the rules of the new CBA, whether it's a S&T or just flatout signing with NY. I can't predict what advantage the home team will have in keeping their own FA's in the new CBA, but in the current CBA, the only advantage they have is a 10% raise over 8.5% and an extra year. Not the dollar amount.

[kingmalaki]

^^^^^^
No, I'm saying I don't expect Melo to risk the $65M extension with a new CBA and potential lockout. Just my guess. I'm no expert. I'm just saying that's a lot of cash to walk away from.

Any truth to this? They are posting it on the Nuggets board:

http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/12/19/188 ... -extension