[Camelo Thread Part 9] - OJ to DEN, Melo to NY? Pg 7

[Knicks_Fan2]

Did everyone ignore the last quote about winning a title. Lebron legit chose the situation he thought was best for him to win--I can easily see melo doing the same. Can't imagine him choosing a situation where he is literally throwing two seasons away.

[adog50]

Mellos Tweet: "Born in Brooklyn, Manufactured in Bmore. Point blank period" 20 Min ago

Does this mean anything?

[taj2133]

If melo is stupid and wanted to go to a losing team like the nets he shouldn't complain on his decision but if he has some common sense which i think he comes to the knicks.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

This situation is more annoying Lebron. because we know he wants to come to NY its just that theres another scrub team in NY. Carmelo just needs to see it this way

Knicks= Lakers
Nets= Clippers

I just cant see him doing anything with a 32 year old richard hamilton and brook lopez and with no 1st round picks,favrors, or devin harris. I just dont see what Carmelo see's in the nets if hes considering them. I mean are they really going to be any Brooklyn Net fans? Everyone in NY Loves the Knicks.

[boogie-reke]

What he sees is the 2012 FA market imo, I mean thats the only thing they can 'sell' him in a realistic way.

"Come play now with the Nets, Rip and Billups and a young big in Lopez.. with you this team will go far in the playoffs and might even make a suprise run in these 2 years, then we'll make a move for CP3 or whoever", that including playing where he was born, dodging the extention, getting paid etc.

Thats what they're telling him I guess.

[GotItNow]

I have always believe the best route for the Knicks is try to acquire the 3 headed monster which reports said they were trying to do last trade rumor, but the Knicks were beating he bottom feeder teams on a little winning streak so they didn't want to mess it up. I firmly believe that wherever Mayo goes, Hasheem Thabeet will be the tag along.

Right now Knicks are 22-17 in 6th place in the East. Don't see them dropping any further than 6th. They will probably face Chicago or Orlando first round. With a strong possibility of advancing to the 2nd round.

I'll take my chances with a 3 headed monster OJ Mayo/Carmelo Anthony/Amare Stoudamire while having Felton as the PG, and keeping Fields. Fields although 6'7 is really long could probably play him at the 3 for a lot of the time and Melo at the 4, since they like to get up and down anyway.


PG: Raymond Felton
SG: OJ Mayo
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Amare Stoudamire
C: Hasheem Thabeet

Bench
Landry Fields

I like the sound of this squad, maybe it can become reality soon.

[melostat]

i believe its NY..melo was playing good at the start of the season but at the time when new york started winning, he becomes unmotivated and then trade talks begun coz i believe that melo is pressuring denver FO to trade him to the Knicks

[Thats-Amareee]

I have always believe the best route for the Knicks is try to acquire the 3 headed monster which reports said they were trying to do last trade rumor, but the Knicks were beating he bottom feeder teams on a little winning streak so they didn't want to mess it up. I firmly believe that wherever Mayo goes, Hasheem Thabeet will be the tag along.

Right now Knicks are 22-17 in 6th place in the East. Don't see them dropping any further than 6th. They will probably face Chicago or Orlando first round. With a strong possibility of advancing to the 2nd round.

I'll take my chances with a 3 headed monster OJ Mayo/Carmelo Anthony/Amare Stoudamire while having Felton as the PG, and keeping Fields. Fields although 6'7 is really long could probably play him at the 3 for a lot of the time and Melo at the 4, since they like to get up and down anyway.


PG: Raymond Felton
SG: OJ Mayo
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Amare Stoudamire
C: Hasheem Thabeet

Bench
Landry Fields

I like the sound of this squad, maybe it can become reality soon.

hahahahaha i love this goat haha

[falcindor]

What he said about Brooklyn was not thumbs up to Nets. It was more of a thumbs up to his old neighborhood. Of coyurse he isnt going to live in downtown brooklyn.

[Ron1]

Maybe it's posturing, or caving in, or just a plain desire to escape Denver, but either way you put it, according to Marc Berman (for what it's worth), Melo has officially included NJ as a possible destination.

Anthony finally acknowledged the Nets as a potential destination, which does not bode well for the Knicks' longshot bid. The Knicks' best chance at Anthony would be if he spurns an extension with the Nets.

"I see what the future holds, they'll move to Brooklyn," Anthony said of the Nets. "Me going back home to Brooklyn, opening that arena, I think about all that stuff."

Read More Here:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/r ... SQP0uOEWvI

Conversely, in the same article AR's agent Billy Duffy asks for a trade.

[falcindor]

NJ cant answer his questions. They are giving up all flexibility to get him. Lopez not extended yet and when they do so will push them OVER cap. Proverov wants to take shortcuts making a good franchise. Mark Cuban did it the right way. Making a world class arna and facilities and impressing visiting players first. Developing picks and generating a reputation. It wasnt instant. It cant be instant.

[atribecalledrch]

Maybe it's posturing, or caving in, or just a plain desire to escape Denver, but either way you put it, according to Marc Berman (for what it's worth), Melo has officially included NJ as a possible destination.

Anthony finally acknowledged the Nets as a potential destination, which does not bode well for the Knicks' longshot bid. The Knicks' best chance at Anthony would be if he spurns an extension with the Nets.

"I see what the future holds, they'll move to Brooklyn," Anthony said of the Nets. "Me going back home to Brooklyn, opening that arena, I think about all that stuff."

Read More Here:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/r ... SQP0uOEWvI

Conversely, in the same article AR's agent Billy Duffy asks for a trade.

Read the rest of that interview on ESPN. He said he's not even thinking abt signing an extension with NJ and plus he wants to play in NY. The Nets wont be there until October 2012.

[melostat]

Honestly i really wouldn't be mad if melo didnt come, i would really want donnie to get iggy through. I think iggy probably would be a better fit we need his defense and toughness hes also a great passer and finisher. We would have a good young core of chandler 23yr, gallo 22yr, fields 22yr, felton 26yr, amare 28yr, iggy 26yr. We would be good for years. And we can probably get iggy for cheap.

We are going to need some body to guard wade,lebron, joe johnson, arenas ect..

Crazy how some people's views on Melo are changing day by day.

Please...Iggy is nothing close to Melo's play and is not a better fit.

Of course hes not better than melo but hes still a good player, whos going to guard the opposing teams best player.

Fields..melo is a team player thats why he trusts his teammates..

[Hitman33]

talking about the idea of 'opening in Brooklyn' and whatnot.. and I think it would be something we should be fearful of if it weren't such a bad team that they have... I mean, that opening is what 2 years away, so he wouldn't even be 'opening' for a good while, and he'd be stuck with the crap that they have now.... I think that part, plus his desire to play for the Knicks, plus the fact that we do have pieces and a star, make us much more appealing

Bottom line, he wants the extension.

He wants to come home, and Brooklyn is home.

Knicks were choice 1A, but Nets are choice 1B.

HIs "ultimate dream" is to play at home.

MJ & LBJ's ultimate dream is to win titles.

Therein lies the difference.

[duetta]

Mellos Tweet: "Born in Brooklyn, Manufactured in Bmore. Point blank period" 20 Min ago

Does this mean anything?

It means the dude should get off twitter.

[TrueWarrior]

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... #more-5197

This article makes me feel A LITTLE better about getting Melo. Even if I knew most of this already as its common sense, its nice to see the numbers in front of you. Melo is obviously a guy who will garner attention offensively and that will help his teammates shooting the most, similar to Amare here. Melo may not directly make them better with passing or efficient shooting himself, but the straight attention he draws indirectly does. This is true of any decent offensive player though.

However the fact that his numbers individually as a #1 option arent good, I still subscribe to him being a low end #1/high end #2, so playing with Amare should put him squarely in that area. I have my concerns about how hed fit on this team (as the article says) and hes not the greatest passer/3 pt shooter which our system warrants, or defender, but theres no doubt him and Amare would be a hard duo to stop offensively if they sacrifice a little for the betterment of the team.

I only hope that with them together, they increase each other's numbers as well as their teammates. They both have to become very willing passers and take less shots than they do now to make it work though. Im still far from wanting to gut the team for Melo because hes pretty one dimensional, not close to as good as other legit superstars, and we have some very good up and coming wings already, but I trust my man Donnie to make the right choice.

Why Carmelo Anthony Is the Ultimate Team Player (and What ‘Advanced’ Stats Miss About Him)

By NATE SILVER

Carmelo Anthony, whom the Knicks are considering acquiring in a trade, is sometimes thought of as a selfish player. Indeed, he is the center of the Denver Nuggets’ offense: when he is on the court for them, about 30 percent of their possessions end in Anthony shooting, going to the foul line, or committing a turnover. Nor is Anthony much of a passer: over his career, he’s accumulated 3.1 assists per 36 minutes played, considerably less than that of other high-volume scorers like Kobe Bryant (4.6 assists per 36 minutes) or LeBron James (6.2).

In taking all of those shots, however, Anthony has also done something else: he’s made his teammates much more efficient offensive players.

Anthony is a controversial player among those who devote their time to analyzing basketball statistics. The reason is as follows: although he scores a lot of points, he does not do so especially efficiently. His True Shooting Percentage (TS%) – which accounts not just for two-point buckets but also for three-point shots and drawing fouls, neither of which are a particular strength of Anthony’s – is .527 this year and .543 for his career. Those figures are roughly at the league average, which is about .540 in most years.

Anthony’s TS% is also worse than all five of the Knicks’ regular starters, including Wilson Chandler (.579), Danilo Gallinari (.600), and Landry Fields (.611), the men whom he might replace in the lineup. This has led some to argue that Anthony could actually represent a step backward for the Knicks. David Berri, an economist at Southern Utah University who has developed a statistic called Wins Produced that places an extremely high premium on efficiency, told the Wall Street Journal that a Knicks roster with Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and Raymond Felton — but without Fields or Chandler — would win only 29 games per season.

This strikes me as highly implausible: the Nuggets, with a supporting cast that isn’t obviously any better than the one that Anthony would be joining in New York, have won an average of 48 games per season since Anthony’s rookie year, despite playing in the deep Western Conference. They have also been a relatively efficient offensive team. The year before Anthony joined the Nuggets, they ranked dead last in the N.B.A. in offensive efficiency (points scored per possession) on their way to winning just 17 games. But their offensive efficiently ranking shot up to 8th in the league in Anthony’s rookie season and has remained roughly at that level since.

What is missing from formulas like Berri’s is an account of what Anthony does to the rest of the Nuggets. Because he is able to score from anywhere in the court, Anthony draws attention and defenders away from his teammates, sometimes leaving them with wide-open shots. He also allows them to be more selective about the shots that they choose to take, since they know that Anthony can usually get a respectable shot off before the 24-second clock expires if needed.

These effects produce a profound increase in the efficiency of Anthony’s supporting cast when he is on the floor. In the 135 games that he played with the Nuggets, for instance, Allen Iverson’s True Shooting Percentage was 55.9 percent – much better than the 51.2 TS% that Iverson, a notoriously inefficient shooter, posted outside of Denver over the course of his career.

In fact, this is true of almost every Nugget who has played a sufficient number of minutes with Anthony. I identified 16 players who have accumulated least 2,000 minutes with the Nuggets in years when Anthony was on the team, and have also played at least 2,000 minutes in the N.B.A. without Anthony (either because they were playing for a different team or because they were on the Nuggets before Anthony’s rookie season). All but 2 of the players – Marcus Camby and Voshon Lenard – posted a higher TS% playing with Anthony than without him, and on average, he improved his teammates’ TS% by 3.8 points (to 55.0 percent from 51.2 percent).



The effect of a player who improves the rest of his team’s TS% by 3.8 points is extremely substantial: it is works out to their scoring about 5 or 5.5 additional points per game solely on the basis of this efficiency gain. That, in turn, translates into about 15 additional wins per season for an average team, according to a commonly-used formula. This is how Anthony creates most of his value — not in the shots he takes himself, but in the ones he creates for his teammates – and some of the “advanced” formulas completely miss it.

With that said, there is reason to question whether Anthony would have quite the same effect in New York that he did in Denver. With a few exceptions like Iverson, the Nuggets have generally surrounded Anthony with defensively-minded players like Camby who are not especially eager to shoot or who do not do so especially well. The Knicks, by contrast, are a run-and-gun team with lots of good shooters and they already rank fifth in the league in offensive efficiency.

There are some precedents for pairing several high-volume scorers together and seeing them thrive: when Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen joined Paul Pierce on the Celtics, for instance, all three players took fewer shots, but all three were rewarded with a significant increase in their TS%. On the other hand, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh have not seen an increase in their efficiency since joining together on the Miami Heat, even though they are shooting a bit less often.

So there are no guarantees – one would need to consider more carefully exactly how Anthony would integrate into Mike D’Antoni’s offense and exactly which type of shots he’d take. One would also need to think about Anthony’s defense, where he is no standout. But upon a more careful examination, the argument that Anthony is a merely average offensive player turns out to be superficial.

Amare's numbers are actually down across the board this year efficiency wise. Hes at 50% FG, 57% TS%, and 108 Offensive Rating on a career high 31% Usage now, compared to 56% FG, 62% TS%, and 117 Offensive Rating on 27% Usage in Phoenix. Those are still legit #1 option numbers though, where I cant say the same for Melo.

Melos are lower than Amare's in every category. Hes only doing 44% FG, 53% TS%, and 105 Offensive Rating on 32% Usage, and has been for three years now. What this tells me is that while Melo still creates opportunities for his teammates just from the sheer attention he draws, hes still not putting up #1 option numbers himself. Melo needs Amare much more than Amare needs Melo. Dantoni would need to tweak things and they would need to play unselfishly to make it work, so we'll see what happens.

[K_ick_God]

It's funny but earlier I was telling vallen that legacy is as important to a player as anything -- that and whatever cash they've earned is all they have.

And then Melo comes out and says 'This will define my legacy.'

Thanks Melo. He just completely endorsed what I was saying earlier.

He also said that he has never even considered the Nets as a real possibility, at least not up until recently. But now the wheels are turning. He does seem at least intrigued by Brooklyn, which could be bad news for the Knicks.

At the end of the day, I think there is a reasonably decent chance that he'll cave for the money and sell himself on being the man in Brooklyn, and the excitement (not winning) that goes with it.

He'll have a much harder time selling himself on the likelihood of winning -- not just winning titles, which is how you have a "legacy" -- but even just winning at all. I mean, the Nets could be a bottom-bracket playoff team with no real chance to go deep in the playoffs. That would be the worst possible outcome for him and his legacy: Stuck on a team that is stuck around .500 for years.

But he's open to it, seemingly, and he could just talk himself into it. We'll just have to wait & see. Should be interesting to watch unfold

The Decision The Sequel

[hatnlvr]

So after reading the Post this morning it seems that we are even a longer shot now than ever to get Melo, and the only reason AR agent was at the Garden last night was to demand a trade.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/r ... SQP0uOEWvI

[melostat]

So after reading the Post this morning it seems that we are even a longer shot now than ever to get Melo, and the only reason AR agent was at the Garden last night was to demand a trade.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/r ... SQP0uOEWvI

LOL curry is not playing months already but only complained now..What a nice excuse..Why dont they just say that they are talking about melos deal

[Dr. Detfink]

Give Melo credit. He could have caved a while ago. He finally let be known, he wants to be in NY on the BIG Stage. Not with the Russian douche who wants to shine his property.