[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

[seren]

Pretty much agreed with the Denver fan. Denver management is stupid. When Kobe wanted out, the GM begged him not to and built a contender around him. When Melo decided not to sign the extension, even though he never asked out publicly, Denver GM announces they will not be Lebron'd and goes on a shopping Melo spree. Heck, even the NJ pulling out would be a lifesaver for Denver. They could just hush the talks by saying this is the team and they will deal with Melo in the summer. And look the whole thing from Melo's perspective. You have a coach that you are not certain will be back. Half of the team is expiring in the summer. Not one person was offered an extension aside from Melo or a guarantee to be back for next season. The "help" your management get is Al frigging Harrington.

[Moose]

Maybe this can happen:


1) Trade douglas, Azubuike (and possibly cash) for a first round pick (likely in the 20s) (and possibly an expiring contract)

2) Trade anthony randolph (and possibly cash) to twolves for first round pick (most likely in teens or early 20s) and telfair (or another team that wants randolph for a first round pick...would like backup pg with expiring deal such as telfair's though)

3) Trade the two first round picks (and probably a future first round pick,) chandler, eddy curry, bill walker, 3 million for melo and (unfortunately) harrington and/or birdman


or do that trade without bill walker and without harrington...which is what i would prefer...dont want birdman either...but it seems like we are going to have to take at least once crappy contract back (if not 2)...and we'd be better off taking the big man over harrington.


i dont believe the the nuggets would trade billups in the deal...i think it would make sense for the knicks to take billups if offered, or possibly ask for billups in a deal if we have to take a bad contract like harrington or birdman...i think birdman makes more sense just because we need all the big bodies possible.


I think this is pretty realistic...if we have to give up fields, i wouldnt take back any bad contracts and ask for billups...i believe billups has a player option after this season.

[Context]

Pretty much agreed with the Denver fan. Denver management is stupid. When Kobe wanted out, the GM begged him not to and built a contender around him. When Melo decided not to sign the extension, even though he never asked out publicly, Denver GM announces they will not be Lebron'd and goes on a shopping Melo spree. Heck, even the NJ pulling out would be a lifesaver for Denver. They could just hush the talks by saying this is the team and they will deal with Melo in the summer. And look the whole thing from Melo's perspective. You have a coach that you are not certain will be back. Half of the team is expiring in the summer. Not one person was offered an extension aside from Melo or a guarantee to be back for next season. The "help" your management get is Al frigging Harrington.

And this is the only thing that I am afraid of. Their ownership having an epiphany. And finally seeing the light in May, or during the play-offs or even now and decide to go all in. Then we'll be in waiting to 2012 mode with NO IDEA of who will want to come here. Not to mention, Amare will be two seasons removed from his signing. Possibly beat up because of the load. Etc... Whether some of our own fans refuse to be open-minded and see that it can happen. Some of us realize that things can change. Go get Melo and don't let one player be the deal breaker...

[truth serum]

Pretty much agreed with the Denver fan. Denver management is stupid. When Kobe wanted out, the GM begged him not to and built a contender around him. When Melo decided not to sign the extension, even though he never asked out publicly, Denver GM announces they will not be Lebron'd and goes on a shopping Melo spree. Heck, even the NJ pulling out would be a lifesaver for Denver. They could just hush the talks by saying this is the team and they will deal with Melo in the summer. And look the whole thing from Melo's perspective. You have a coach that you are not certain will be back. Half of the team is expiring in the summer. Not one person was offered an extension aside from Melo or a guarantee to be back for next season. The "help" your management get is Al frigging Harrington.

I think it was a lost cause. Kobe knew the Lakers had the means to improve the team and the draw of LA to keep guys there including himself and was clearly just throwing a temper tantrum to force their hand. Denver is a different animal. Colorado is cold and much less appealing (especially for Melo who wants to be home in NY...big factor) and the team is already strapped, especially after signing Harrington like you mentioned. There just isn't much room to go up despite being a solid team already. Melo probably told them that he was definitely leaving for NY which is what most of this speculation is about, and being that he did this somewhat privately as opposed to just putting the pressure on them to make moves, the Nuggets know he means business.

The best option for the Nugs is definitely to trade him. LA knew they could convince Kobe to stay, not only because again, LA is LA but also because they had the flexibility to go out and get someone like Gasol. Kobe was just fed up with the youth movement and wanted instant success. Denver is having anything but a youth movement. They made their splash when they got Billups, it didn't result in a title and now there isn't much else they can do to elevate yet another level to compete with teams like the Heat and Lakers. It's done. Melo is out of there and they know it. The fact that they are so insistent on trading him is another sign that they have no chance to resign him. Like Melo said, he and Ujiri have discussed everything.

[towelie]

Pretty much agreed with the Denver fan. Denver management is stupid. When Kobe wanted out, the GM begged him not to and built a contender around him. When Melo decided not to sign the extension, even though he never asked out publicly, Denver GM announces they will not be Lebron'd and goes on a shopping Melo spree. Heck, even the NJ pulling out would be a lifesaver for Denver. They could just hush the talks by saying this is the team and they will deal with Melo in the summer. And look the whole thing from Melo's perspective. You have a coach that you are not certain will be back. Half of the team is expiring in the summer. Not one person was offered an extension aside from Melo or a guarantee to be back for next season. The "help" your management get is Al frigging Harrington.

And this is the only thing that I am afraid of. Their ownership having an epiphany. And finally seeing the light in May, or during the play-offs or even now and decide to go all in. Then we'll be in waiting to 2012 mode with NO IDEA of who will want to come here. Not to mention, Amare will be two seasons removed from his signing. Possibly beat up because of the load. Etc... Whether some of our own fans refuse to be open-minded and see that it can happen. Some of us realize that things can change. Go get Melo and don't let one player be the deal breaker...

They may be making that last ditch effort to convince him to stay in Denver as we speak:

Carmelo Anthony did not attend Denver's shootaround on Friday morning because of what coach George Karl called a personal matter.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z1BhW6bGBO

Right now, it's quiet cause I think Denver is scouring the league for new offers now that NJ is out of the picture, but once they realize that Knicks are still the team offering the next best package, they'll either come to the table or continue spiting us. I expect a lot of trade chatter this weekend or next week.

[Knicker23]

The idea of not wanting to give up a second round pick in Landry Fields,..

Way to disqualify yourself.

The only way you talk about Landry as a "second round pick" is if you want to point to his high value. We are paying the second best player in that draft 2nd round money. How do you not grasp how rare and valuable that is?

Just stating that we have to be rational about who we aren't willing to give up in order to land a franchise player in Melo... tbh at this moment i'd want to keep Fields over Chandler and Gallo, but I'm just saying none of those three players, when you look at them, are good enough to stop me from doing a deal to land a player of Melo's caliber... Fields is great, top first round quality, but do you really like him that much that you would allow it to prevent you from landing Melo right now (regardless of what we think he'll do come FA if he ever got to that point, which he wont).. I love him and want to hold onto him, but lets be realistic about it, the idea of us being stingy about any of those guys when we're talking about getting Melo back doesn't add up...... Now, if it's about how many that could be another story, we aren't going to sell them the ship and include all of them or something, but as Michael Kay is always saying, you do what you have to do to get Felton Amare and Melo on the same team... Yes we got a big steal with Fields, and that steal could give its last gift by us doing a deal for Melo with a second round pick as the main piece.

personally, I think we should be able to do the deal only giving up one of Chandler Fields and Gallo...Sheridan said they like what Fields and Walker the most... if we could do Fields Walker Curry Azu and pick via AR i'd say that's a very fair deal....no 'big' names for Denver to boast though, so idk if they do it even if they do like the younger low salary players....but that saves them a ton of money..

I love our 'big three' on the trading block, but we're half way and we are starting to see what kind of team we are - until we make changes, w/e they may be.. theyre great pieces, but none will win a lot of games for us, or be go to guys (in the foreseeable future) until they become much more consistent - Melo will...Chandler has disappointed me the last few weeks, Fields is defining his role and you can see exactly what he brings to the team, and there's nothing wrong with it, but it ain't a 'winning games' role..and Gallo has been up and down all season to say the least...that being said, i'd be happy hanging onto any one of them bc i do think each have bright futures..

we definitely have leverage and whatnot, but lets not let the "we have a good thing going" here fool us - we are a very average team beyond Amare and Felton when he's playing good...not something worth 'blowing up' but certainly not something worth being over protective of either.

[delvec19]

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2011/01/21/geor ... in-denver/

[K_ick_God]

LOL Stein and Ford can't stop! They can't help themselves. See below. Stern already ruled out the franchise player tag. He said players have a right to free agency. It's really pathetic.



STEIN_LINE_HQ

RT @chadfordinsider: Could NFL-like Franchise Tag Melo in Denver, Dwight Howard in Orlando & DWill in Utah? - http://es.pn/g1FZ2y (free)

[vallen]

Get Him Now vs. Wait Until Summer

Get Him Now
-Lose two of Gallo, Fields, Chandler
-Lose Anthony Randolph
-Lose Bill Walker
-Take on Al Harrington
-Gain a Midlevel Exception (if new CBA allows)

Wait Until Summer
-Lose Wilson Chandler (salary hold must be waived)
-Lose Anthony Randolph
-Lose Ronny Turiaf and possibly Mozgov
-Lose Shawne Williams
-Have no MLE

Ill take door #1 Please. And since Chandlers the least likely to go in this scenario, ill use him in a roster check.

Option 1 Trading Now

Felt/TD/Raut
Walker/Mason/
Melo/Williams
Chandler/Harrington
Amare/Ronny/Moz

And we can Sign a MLE. Set rosters how you please.

Option #2. Waiting.

Felt/TD/Raut
Fields/Walker/Mason/
Gallo/?
Melo/?
Amare/?

Wow think were soft now ? Wait till our Bigs off the Bench are League Minimum Bigs...Im also not so sure we can even afford to keep Walker. Especially if Melos going to get close to what hed get now, like so many project here.

Also what do you think its going to cost us to get rid of Turiafs contract ? With Teams knowing how desperate wed be, theyd be asking for Landry or First Round Picks anyway.

I think Donnie needs to get a deal done now and he know it. And guess what ? Denver knows it as well.

[robbysteinz]

I definitely think this Melo skipping out on practice is bigger then we think it is....stay tuned

[Knickplaya]

Where is the link about him skipping practice, that would be HUGE.

[Context]

I definitely think this Melo skipping out on practice is bigger then we think it is....stay tuned

I agree... Prov pulls out, Chandler fire's agent, Melo skips a practice before Laker game, and the air is filled with this "quietness"...

On Edit:

The Warriors could be a trade partner, along with Detroit, desperate Cleveland, etc... Donnie work your magic- you're a GM icon...

[Jay10]

Where is the link about him skipping practice, that would be HUGE.

Anthony misses shootaround for personal reasons

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ts-anthony

[Darko Miliminutes]

I just want you guys to personally promise me that Gallo stays a Knick. You can't give him up!!!

Need about 50.000 or so of you NY'ers to get together and threaten a boycott, at the team headquarters, if they send Gallo...m'kay

[Knicker23]

I definitely think this Melo skipping out on practice is bigger then we think it is....stay tuned

I agree... Prov pulls out, Chandler fire's agent, Melo skips a practice before Laker game, and the air is filled with this "quietness"...

I'm not sure i'd read too much into it having to do with us.. noteworthy though.

And the more I think about it, 3 weeks isn't a very long time... Considering how long the Nets talks were going on (months..), my original thoughts of " Denver won't do anything for a while" that all the analysts seem to be pushing, would be playing this verry veryy close... I mean, what happens if they don't like what they see out there, making this deal with your franchise player will be one of the biggest decisions theyll have to make, I can't imagine them leaving a chance for it not to happen were something to fall through or w/e..

3 weeks is a long time in the day to day melo drama, but in reality, and in the scope / magnitude of this thing, that is cutting it real close... and considering there were talks of teams being interested in players other than Melo once the whole melo situation is solved, they gota leave some room for that to take place as well..

[mugzi]

Bottom line is we dont offer a deal thats any more assets then we would be losing if we were signing him as a FA in the offseason. Meaning once fatso's contract is off our books- thats 11 mil, plus if we trade AR for an expiring and a 1st rounder thats another 3 mil we clear and if Turiaf options out thats another 4 mil off, so theres Melo's max deal starting at 18 mil per yr.

Id bet dollars to donuts that Donnies deal to Denver is basically Chandler/Turiaf/1st rounder or AR and thats it.

And thats why I love Donnie because thats all we should be offering.

You guys that are saying Fields, Gallo and Chandler have no business sense or idea of negotiation, you dont offer all your assets when you're dealing from a position of strength, you make a firm fair offer which is what the above offer is and you stick with that.

[god shammgod]

I just want you guys to personally promise me that Gallo stays a Knick. You can't give him up!!!

Need about 50.000 or so of you NY'ers to get together and threaten a boycott, at the team headquarters, if they send Gallo...m'kay

you'd be lucky if 3 people show up.

[K_ick_God]

Stern already said no to franchise player possibility: http://bit.ly/ay3Cma

[vallen]

Bottom line is we dont offer a deal thats any more assets then we would be losing if we were signing him as a FA in the offseason. Meaning once fatso's contract is off our books- thats 11 mil, plus if we trade AR for an expiring and a 1st rounder thats another 3 mil we clear and if Turiaf options out thats another 4 mil off, so theres Melo's max deal starting at 18 mil per yr.

Id bet dollars to donuts that Donnies deal to Denver is basically Chandler/Turiaf/1st rounder or AR and thats it.

And thats why I love Donnie because thats all we should be offering.

You guys that are saying Fields, Gallo and Chandler have no business sense or idea of negotiation, you dont offer all your assets when you're dealing from a position of strength, you make a firm fair offer which is what the above offer is and you stick with that.

1. Players will be making more money next year. Amare almost 2mill more, Gallo a Mill More, ect. Clearing 18 Mill in salary only gives about 15 mill in Cap Space. And thats after losing Williams, Chandler, Turiaf, Randolph, and Buike. I think Walker has to go to.

2. Clearin Turiafs Contract isnt going to come cheap. It might cost us any pick we gain with Randolph. Everyone knows how much we need to get rid of that contract. So they would be "Dealing from a position of strength." Funny how that can work for other teams to right ??

[Knicker23]

Bottom line is we dont offer a deal thats any more assets then we would be losing if we were signing him as a FA in the offseason. Meaning once fatso's contract is off our books- thats 11 mil, plus if we trade AR for an expiring and a 1st rounder thats another 3 mil we clear and if Turiaf options out thats another 4 mil off, so theres Melo's max deal starting at 18 mil per yr.

Id bet dollars to donuts that Donnies deal to Denver is basically Chandler/Turiaf/1st rounder or AR and thats it.

And thats why I love Donnie because thats all we should be offering.

You guys that are saying Fields, Gallo and Chandler have no business sense or idea of negotiation, you dont offer all your assets when you're dealing from a position of strength, you make a firm fair offer which is what the above offer is and you stick with that.

I like playing hardball, but that is basically saying 'take these scraps or go away' - and to me, that comes across as a team that doesn't really realistically want Melo all that badly.... a team that isn't really taking it upon themselves to get him on their roster...a team that values it's current assets soo much that theyd be willing to sit back and let other teams possibly come in and do something or for something to go wrong between now and what i'd imagine theyd hope for in him going to free agency....you really think we're in a position to do that?. there's a difference between using leverage and being stupid...we're at an advantage right now clearly, but lets not push a good thing even further and risk losing it all....our current squad ain't that good......