Around the NBA: Hezi vs Melo

[cgmw]

Since the Knicks really didn't hit, at all, on 3 top 10 picks within 4 years, they need to be in the lottery again. Hopefully top 5, but that'll come down to luck. Would be great if one pick is top 5 and then the Mavs picks falls in the lotto, even if it's 15.
Knicks need a LOT more talent. They NEED to actually hit on a high draft pick, for once. Hopefully their cap space will help, either in FA or a trade, next year.

I hear what you're saying in a narrow sense, but this is the frustrating part about the last 5 years--IT'S NOT LUCK that we keep A) signing/playing journeymen to play over youth; therefore B) sink to the back half of the lotto; then C) bench our own drafted players behind even moar journeymen vets; therefore D) never develop our own top 10 picks.

It's either by design or by sheer incompetence, but don't call it luck.

[SelbyCobra]

Turns out the KP trade was the rare lose-lose trade.

I'm pretty sure one side wants to undo it way more than the other right now.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[thebuzzardman]

Since the Knicks really didn't hit, at all, on 3 top 10 picks within 4 years, they need to be in the lottery again. Hopefully top 5, but that'll come down to luck. Would be great if one pick is top 5 and then the Mavs picks falls in the lotto, even if it's 15.
Knicks need a LOT more talent. They NEED to actually hit on a high draft pick, for once. Hopefully their cap space will help, either in FA or a trade, next year.

I hear what you're saying in a narrow sense, but this is the frustrating part about the last 5 years--IT'S NOT LUCK that we keep A) signing/playing journeymen to play over youth; therefore B) sink to the back half of the lotto; then C) bench our own drafted players behind even moar journeymen vets; therefore D) never develop our own top 10 picks.

It's either by design or by sheer incompetence, but don't call it luck.

The luck part was acknowledging the new lottery format and that luck is involved in moving up...or down.

Sure, they've been dumb in overplaying vets, especially before Thibs & Co, where it appeared particularly directionless.

I'd like to think there's a little more logic to this approach THIS year, in trying to raise the level of how the team is perceived, but w'll probably be looking at it as yet another year of some crap vet PG or SG playing big minutes, yet AGAIN - Jack, Mudiay, Jennings, Rose, Aflolo, CLee, Payton, Bullocks, Rivers ...and so on. (even though CLee was "ok")

My guess is it's sheer incompetence. A smarter org has a plan. They don't mind being in the "play youth/lose/raise draft capital" mode for X number of years and then at X year point, start to insert some more vets for stability/reputation.

More than anything, up until now (and possibly/probably including now) the Knicks have had bad FO's without good short/medium/long term plans and also the continual change hurts that continuity of planning, thought the planning was never good anyway.

The hope is that Rose & Co will be better, but I think that hope is only based on them being new, so of course there a CHANCE they are the ones to "get it right"

The fact that Randle/Payton/Bullocks/Burks/Rivers in heavy playing rotation indicates probably not.

[Reign23]

Turns out the KP trade was the rare lose-lose trade.

depends on the picks we got.

[3toheadmelo]

@ worst to first

Ayton vs Wiseman tonight

[sol537]

Turns out the KP trade was the rare lose-lose trade.

I'm pretty sure one side wants to undo it way more than the other right now.

Didn't we get Randle (net positive contract now), Morris (flipped to IQ who could contend for ROY), and now a potential lotto pick this draft and another 1st rounder in 2023? On top of all that... we don't have that franchise-crippling contract on the books. Looking pretty one-sided to me

[DOT]

Turns out the KP trade was the rare lose-lose trade.

I'm pretty sure one side wants to undo it way more than the other right now.

Didn't we get Randle (net positive contract now), Morris (flipped to IQ who could contend for ROY), and now a potential lotto pick this draft and another 1st rounder in 2023? On top of all that... we don't have that franchise-crippling contract on the books. Looking pretty one-sided to me

We could've still gotten both Randle and Morris even keeping KP

Just don't have the room to sign Portis, Taj, Bullock, or Payton (who alone makes it worth it) and we keep Tim, who's turned into a solid starter

Really depends on how the picks do, but people are strutting around like we're guaranteed top 10 picks when it's entirely possible their pick this year is late teens, early 20s, and in 2 years it's top 10 protected so won't be better than a late lotto pick

If those picks turn into another Frank and Knox, it won't have been worth it.

[3toheadmelo]

I'm pretty sure one side wants to undo it way more than the other right now.

Didn't we get Randle (net positive contract now), Morris (flipped to IQ who could contend for ROY), and now a potential lotto pick this draft and another 1st rounder in 2023? On top of all that... we don't have that franchise-crippling contract on the books. Looking pretty one-sided to me

We could've still gotten both Randle and Morris even keeping KP

Just don't have the room to sign Portis, Taj, Bullock, or Payton (who alone makes it worth it) and we keep Tim, who's turned into a solid starter

Really depends on how the picks do, but people are strutting around like we're guaranteed top 10 picks when it's entirely possible their pick this year is late teens, early 20s, and in 2 years it's top 10 protected so won't be better than a late lotto pick

If those picks turn into another Frank and Knox, it won't have been worth it.

Knicks wouldn’t have signed both Morris and Randle with KP here

[tony22]

Turns out the KP trade was the rare lose-lose trade.

[DOT]

Didn't we get Randle (net positive contract now), Morris (flipped to IQ who could contend for ROY), and now a potential lotto pick this draft and another 1st rounder in 2023? On top of all that... we don't have that franchise-crippling contract on the books. Looking pretty one-sided to me

We could've still gotten both Randle and Morris even keeping KP

Just don't have the room to sign Portis, Taj, Bullock, or Payton (who alone makes it worth it) and we keep Tim, who's turned into a solid starter

Really depends on how the picks do, but people are strutting around like we're guaranteed top 10 picks when it's entirely possible their pick this year is late teens, early 20s, and in 2 years it's top 10 protected so won't be better than a late lotto pick

If those picks turn into another Frank and Knox, it won't have been worth it.

Knicks wouldn’t have signed both Morris and Randle with KP here

I know you need to believe that, so you're free to do so.

[3toheadmelo]

We could've still gotten both Randle and Morris even keeping KP

Just don't have the room to sign Portis, Taj, Bullock, or Payton (who alone makes it worth it) and we keep Tim, who's turned into a solid starter

Really depends on how the picks do, but people are strutting around like we're guaranteed top 10 picks when it's entirely possible their pick this year is late teens, early 20s, and in 2 years it's top 10 protected so won't be better than a late lotto pick

If those picks turn into another Frank and Knox, it won't have been worth it.

Knicks wouldn’t have signed both Morris and Randle with KP here

I know you need to believe that, so you're free to do so.

Ok well you believe what you want then

[DOT]

Knicks wouldn’t have signed both Morris and Randle with KP here

I know you need to believe that, so you're free to do so.

Ok well you believe what you want then

I never said we would or wouldn't have signed them

Just that we could have

The irony of the whole thing being, KP would be a great fit next to current Randle. Which is, of course, why you have to believe we wouldn't have signed him if we traded KP, cause then trading KP was a mistake. So you only talk about them by comparing them 1:1 instead of saying we could have had both.

[3toheadmelo]

I know you need to believe that, so you're free to do so.

Ok well you believe what you want then

I never said we would or wouldn't have signed them

Just that we could have

The irony of the whole thing being, KP would be a great fit next to current Randle. Which is, of course, why you have to believe we wouldn't have signed him if we traded KP, cause then trading KP was a mistake. So you only talk about them by comparing them 1:1 instead of saying we could have had both.

Im just saying I think we wouldn’t have signed both of them if we had KP. Only one of them would’ve been a Knick imo. I find it hard seeing KP, Randle, Morris and Mitch fitting together.

Signing both of them turned out well for us cause we got Randle who’s better and we flipped Morris for IQ. In my eyes only one of those events would’ve happened with KP. So I think it worked out for us. That’s all that matters to me. And now we may have gotten a lottery pick in addition. I think we did well.

[robillionaire]

I know you need to believe that, so you're free to do so.

Ok well you believe what you want then

I never said we would or wouldn't have signed them

Just that we could have

The irony of the whole thing being, KP would be a great fit next to current Randle. Which is, of course, why you have to believe we wouldn't have signed him if we traded KP, cause then trading KP was a mistake. So you only talk about them by comparing them 1:1 instead of saying we could have had both.

I don't think we would have got Morris. Morris was late signing after he backed out with the Spurs and we were lucky we had a little space left. Actually we didn't, we had to take back Bullock's deal in order to make room for him. No way we still have that last bit of Room for Morris without that trade. And he is the reason we got IQ and the 2nd rounder we haven't used yet.

Also it wasn't a lose-lose trade just based on the fact that they had to max out a bad player and we didn't

[Kampuchea]

Mavs fans seem to love KP.

From Mavs vs Jazz thread:

And don’t even get me started on Pussingis. This guy and every single fanboy of his scrub ass is delusional if they think he’s anything more than a servicable big. He’s worth exactly what Christian Wood is getting paid and not a cent more. If he would be able to stay on the court consistently that is. This pussy getting a max is a joke. I’d rather have Gobert on 50 mil a year than this pussy on 20 mil. At least you would have the defensive side of the ball fixed with him on the team.

[god shammgod]

I know you need to believe that, so you're free to do so.

Ok well you believe what you want then

I never said we would or wouldn't have signed them

Just that we could have

The irony of the whole thing being, KP would be a great fit next to current Randle. Which is, of course, why you have to believe we wouldn't have signed him if we traded KP, cause then trading KP was a mistake. So you only talk about them by comparing them 1:1 instead of saying we could have had both.

i'm not as angry at kp as most, probably because he's not healthy enough for me to feel any real regret. and that's really the thing about him for me. looking at the games he shoots bad or not, how much he's actually progressed, or he is really worthy of a max (probably not) is a secondary thought. so even saying he would fit well with randle doesn't really matter if he's not available a lot to do so. if he never left i would have wanted to max him, because lord knows we don't draft guys who are any good too often, but would it have been a mistake ? probably it seems. which is why when they did it i understood.

[DOT]

Im just saying I think we wouldn’t have signed both of them if we had KP. Only one of them would’ve been a Knick imo. I find it hard seeing KP, Randle, Morris and Mitch fitting together.

Signing both of them turned out well for us cause we got Randle who’s better and we flipped Morris for IQ. In my eyes only one of those events would’ve happened with KP. So I think it worked out for us. That’s all that matters to me. And now we may have gotten a lottery pick in addition. I think we did well.

Eh, I think we just relegate Mitch to the bench for like 20 mpg, start him when KP gets injured

Knowing Perry, he'd definitely rather get Randle than Morris, which means no LA trade, so no late first, but arguably we could have gotten a 2nd round pick and still gotten Quick, though there's no way to really know for sure if he's still there in the 2nd, but given the pick was seen as a reach by us, it's arguable

Then we likely still pick in the lottery again, but later and we wouldn't get Obi regardless, so probably a decent chance we could've gotten Haliburton, but more likely we win enough to be out of his range and get like Cole or something

At the end of the day, really what it's gonna come down to is how those picks end up. If we're being realistic, unless Luka gets hurt, there's a good chance the pick this year will be in the teens, and the 2023 pick is top 10 protected, so it's gonna be up to Rose to find good players in the mid first. If he can, we'll have won, but if not, we won't have. As of right now, declaring one side the winner is still premature when so much is still up in the air.

[god shammgod]

@ worst to first

Ayton vs Wiseman tonight

finally a game where the sham curse can not affect the outcome

[DOT]

Ok well you believe what you want then

I never said we would or wouldn't have signed them

Just that we could have

The irony of the whole thing being, KP would be a great fit next to current Randle. Which is, of course, why you have to believe we wouldn't have signed him if we traded KP, cause then trading KP was a mistake. So you only talk about them by comparing them 1:1 instead of saying we could have had both.

i'm not as angry at kp as most, probably because he's not healthy enough for me to feel any real regret. and that's really the thing about him for me. looking at the games he shoots bad or not, how much he's actually progressed, or he is really worthy of a max (probably not) is a secondary thought. so even saying he would fit well with randle doesn't really matter if he's not available a lot to do so. if he never left i would have wanted to max him because lord knows we don't draft guys who are any good too often but would it have been a mistake ? probably it seems. which is why when they did it i understood.

I think it was a mistake to trade him without really shopping him around

Again, entirely dependent on how the Mavs picks turn out, but it feels like we could have gotten a better package for him

Probably was the right move to trade him, I just don't know if trading him for what we did was the right move.