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2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1201 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:57 pm

dakomish23 wrote:From the GB.

According to the contract, which was reviewed by The Athletic, the final three years of the deal are no longer guaranteed after Williamson was able to only play in 29 games last season. By missing more than 22 games last season, Williamson triggered a clause that turned the salary he is owed for the 2025-26, 2026-27 and 2027-28 seasons from guaranteed to non-guaranteed.

That means the Pelicans have the contractual power to waive Williamson after the 2024-25 season with no financial ramifications — though rival team executives believe that would only happen in extreme circumstances. And if Williamson misses significant time this season, it could cut into his guaranteed salary for 2024-25.

Four executives from other NBA teams, who spoke on condition of anonymity so they could discuss Williamson’s arrangement, said it was unlikely that the Pelicans would waive him unless the situation grew significantly worse. The contract terms give the team flexibility and a safety net, however, and could make it easier to trade Williamson because potential partners would have escape hatches that could lower the risk of adding his salary to their ledger.

Source: Mike Vorkunov @ The Athletic


https://theathletic.com/4913537/2023/12/21/zion-williamson-contract-pelicans-nba/


Pretty wild that his agent agree to a deal like this. Or that the players association didn’t step in. I feel like this slightly opens the door to what the nfl has with their contracts.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1202 » by dakomish23 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:From the GB.

According to the contract, which was reviewed by The Athletic, the final three years of the deal are no longer guaranteed after Williamson was able to only play in 29 games last season. By missing more than 22 games last season, Williamson triggered a clause that turned the salary he is owed for the 2025-26, 2026-27 and 2027-28 seasons from guaranteed to non-guaranteed.

That means the Pelicans have the contractual power to waive Williamson after the 2024-25 season with no financial ramifications — though rival team executives believe that would only happen in extreme circumstances. And if Williamson misses significant time this season, it could cut into his guaranteed salary for 2024-25.

Four executives from other NBA teams, who spoke on condition of anonymity so they could discuss Williamson’s arrangement, said it was unlikely that the Pelicans would waive him unless the situation grew significantly worse. The contract terms give the team flexibility and a safety net, however, and could make it easier to trade Williamson because potential partners would have escape hatches that could lower the risk of adding his salary to their ledger.

Source: Mike Vorkunov @ The Athletic


https://theathletic.com/4913537/2023/12/21/zion-williamson-contract-pelicans-nba/


Pretty wild that his agent agree to a deal like this. Or that the players association didn’t step in. I feel like this slightly opens the door to what the nfl has with their contracts.


Did Embiid have a similar clause in his first contract?
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1203 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:09 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:


Pretty wild that his agent agree to a deal like this. Or that the players association didn’t step in. I feel like this slightly opens the door to what the nfl has with their contracts.


Did Embiid have a similar clause in his first contract?


Looking at Woj’s article at the time, it says they’d need to waive him for Embiid to not get the full amount of his contract. Which makes me think that his contract wasn’t fully guaranteed either.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1204 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:20 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Pretty wild that his agent agree to a deal like this. Or that the players association didn’t step in. I feel like this slightly opens the door to what the nfl has with their contracts.


Did Embiid have a similar clause in his first contract?


Looking at Woj’s article at the time, it says they’d need to waive him for Embiid to not get the full amount of his contract. Which makes me think that his contract wasn’t fully guaranteed either.

Pay wall. Can one of quote/post the relevant passage?
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1205 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:24 pm

Lauri, Olynyk, THT for RJ, IQ, Evan’s contract and all the protect picks we have. In my mind it seems fair but dealing with Ainge you never know. Probably takes us out of a star trade, unless you build that one around Lauri or Randle.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1206 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:49 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Did Embiid have a similar clause in his first contract?


Looking at Woj’s article at the time, it says they’d need to waive him for Embiid to not get the full amount of his contract. Which makes me think that his contract wasn’t fully guaranteed either.

Pay wall. Can one of quote/post the relevant passage?



Spoiler:
When the New Orleans Pelicans extended the contract of Zion Williamson in July 2022, it was a jubilant moment for the franchise. New Orleans had managed to lock up Williamson for five additional years for $197 million, ensuring the star selected No. 1 overall in 2019 would remain in town.

The deal itself was significant, with Williamson seen not only as key to turning the Pelicans into a contender, but also as an example of a young All-Star willing to reach a long-term deal with a small-market team. It was not without risk, however — Williamson had missed significant chunks of his first three years in the NBA, including the entire 2021-22 season. As a result, the team negotiated major hedges tied to Williamson’s health and conditioning in case he had problems staying on the court.

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According to the contract, which was reviewed by The Athletic, the final three years of the deal are no longer guaranteed after Williamson was able to only play in 29 games last season. By missing more than 22 games last season, Williamson triggered a clause that turned the salary he is owed for the 2025-26, 2026-27 and 2027-28 seasons from guaranteed to non-guaranteed. That means the Pelicans have the contractual power to waive Williamson after the 2024-25 season with no financial ramifications — though rival team executives believe that would only happen in extreme circumstances. And if Williamson misses significant time this season, it could cut into his guaranteed salary for 2024-25.

The contract also has ways for Williamson to earn back the guarantees by playing in enough games and hitting specific weigh-in checkpoints.

When approached by The Athletic, the Pelicans several times declined to comment, answer questions about the contract or make Williamson available to speak. Williamson’s agent, Austin Brown, did not return messages seeking comment.


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Hollinger: Would the Pels ever really waive Zion? Probably not. Here's why


Williamson, 23, is in the first year of his five-year extension, and his health and his availability have quickly become major themes yet again. He has stayed on the court so far, playing in 23 of 28 games while averaging an efficient 22 points in 30.5 minutes per contest, but his conditioning has been sharply questioned. He looked lethargic in an ugly In-Season Tournament loss to the Lakers, prompting TNT’s Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal to heap criticism on him, saying he was out of shape. The New Orleans Times Picayune reported that the team has long questioned Williamson’s work ethic.

The Pelicans had guarded themselves against such uncertainty when reaching the extension last year. The complex deal, key details of which were confirmed by six league sources on condition of anonymity, contained unusual measures taken by the Pelicans to directly connect guaranteed salary with games played.

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Beyond the shift for the final three years of the deal, Williamson is at risk of losing even more in guarantees if he doesn’t hit certain marks during regular checks of his weight and body fat. Under the contract, the sum of Williamson’s weight in pounds and his body fat percentage must be less than 295. He was listed as weighing 285 pounds last season, meaning his body fat could not be higher than 10 percent.

The Pelicans also have protected themselves in case Williamson has any further significant issues with the fifth metatarsal in his right foot. If he suffers a fracture or a stress injury to that bone or the healed callus, or has what the contract calls a “hardware failure” related to the previous injury there, then half of his base salary for 2024-25 would no longer be guaranteed if the team released him.

While the complexity of Williamson’s contract is highly unusual, the NBA has seen contracts before that offer teams injury and playing time protections. Joel Embiid’s rookie extension with the Philadelphia 76ers was a max deal that also gave the franchise financial cover if he got hurt again after Embiid missed his first two NBA seasons with foot injuries. Jonathan Isaac signed a four-year extension with the Magic that runs through the 2024-25 season but is only partially guaranteed for this season and non-guaranteed for next season after he dealt with a slew of injuries during his first three years.

Williamson’s deal, by comparison, is much more layered.

Williamson has said that he spent this offseason working on his body after building a plan with the Pelicans. He had realized, he said, that he needed to change his routine. Williamson said this summer on a podcast co-hosted by former NBA star Gilbert Arenas that he was focusing on flexibility and band work, and on ways to stay on the court longer. LeBron James, he said, serves as a blueprint; James is known to spend large sums on his health and conditioning each year and remains dominant at 38.

Play: Video

Before this season began, David Griffin, the Pelicans’ head of basketball operations, who declined to be interviewed for this story, said the franchise had finally seen Williamson commit wholeheartedly to his health.

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“This was the first summer where we’ve seen Zion really take his profession seriously like that and invest it off the court on his own in a way that I think is meaningful,” Griffin said in October. He added: “He found a level of commitment that was important.”

Four executives from other NBA teams, who spoke on condition of anonymity so they could discuss Williamson’s arrangement, said it was unlikely that the Pelicans would waive him unless the situation grew significantly worse. The contract terms give the team flexibility and a safety net, however, and could make it easier to trade Williamson because potential partners would have escape hatches that could lower the risk of adding his salary to their ledger.

There are also avenues for Williamson to have portions of, or even his entire salary, become guaranteed again. Twenty percent of his salary for the 2025-26 season will become guaranteed if he passes all six of his weigh-in checkpoints during the 2024-25 season, another 40 percent if he plays in at least 41 games in 2024-25 and an additional 20 percent if he plays in at least 51. The final 20 percent gets re-guaranteed if he plays in at least 61 games. He can re-guarantee portions of his salary for the 2026-27 and 2027-28 seasons as well by hitting those same milestones in the seasons before.

There are also a number of vesting dates in the deal that tie the team and the player together.

Williamson’s contract for the 2024-25 season becomes completely guaranteed as long as the Pelicans don’t waive him on or before Jan. 7 of that season. His 2025-26 salary is 100 percent protected as long as he’s not waived on or before July 15, 2025. His 2026-27 compensation is 100 percent protected as long as he’s not waived on or before July 15, 2026. And the final season’s salary becomes 100 percent guaranteed as long as Williamson is not waived on or before July 15, 2027.

For the Pelicans, the contract terms protect against the worst possibilities. But both sides, clearly, would prefer to see Williamson play out his contract and dominate — and be paid handsomely. Williamson, too, is invested.

“Whether people believe it or not, when I’m on the sideline, man, that hurt me more than anything,” Williamson said of missing playing time, speaking on the podcast co-hosted by Arenas. “I just want to hoop.”
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1207 » by HopelessKnick » Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:45 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:Marknanen would be a great fit to this team but I am not sure what would be the role of Randle in that case because it'd be evident that benching Randle would help the team in playoffs. As a man-child, can Randle take this? Or will he punch a fire extinguisher in the locker room?


Randle has been at worst at the same level as Markkanen if you get passed the bias. Lauri is a more efficient scorer, but Randle is a much better playmaker, rebounder and they are probably the same level of defender.


Markannen plays the 3 a lot. I think we’d be able to get away with lauri, Randle, Hartenstein front court.


Does he still? He played the 3 a lot in Cleveland but is he really suited for it?
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1208 » by cgf » Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:47 pm

CHI: Houstan + Fournier + ORL/DEN FRP
NYK: W.Carter + P.Williams + Craig
ORL: Quickley + Sims + cap filler from Chicago


Brunson | DDV | McBride
Barrett | Grimes
P.Williams | Hart | Craig
Randle
(Robinson) | W.Carter/Hartenstein | Gibson
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1209 » by Knicks218 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:15 pm

Knicks - Trade RJ, Fournier, Sims, McBride.
for
Bulls - DeRozan, Caruso, Drummond, Craig.

PG-Brunson/Quickley/Ryan
SG-DiVincenzo/Caruso/Jeffries
SF-DeRozan/Grimes/Craig
PF-Randle/Hart/Gibson
C-Drummond/Hartenstein

*Out Mitchell Robinson
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We should trade RJ for DeRozan. 

Post#1210 » by Knicks218 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:20 pm

DeRozan is the player we hope RJ can turn into, we mind as well trade RJ for DeRozan now and add Drummond to play center. Plus DeRozan contract is expiring. DeRozan is already set in what we know we can expect from him every night. Instead of RJ's continued up and down nights.

Knicks - Trade RJ, Fournier, Sims, McBride.
for
Bulls - DeRozan, Caruso, Drummond, Craig.

PG-Brunson/Quickley/Ryan
SG-DiVincenzo/Caruso/Jeffries
SF-DeRozan/Grimes/Craig
PF-Randle/Hart/Gibson
C-Drummond/Hartenstein

*Out Mitchell Robinson
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1211 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:40 pm

Bring Dwight Howard back from China
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1212 » by Buttah304 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:23 pm

Lauri is just a really intriguing player and an absolute nightmare to go up against positionally.

In 20-21 he played 47% of his minutes at the 4 and 53% at the 5. The following year in Cleveland he played 65% of his minutes at the 3. Last year for Utah he spent 60% at the 4, and 20% respectively at the 3 & 5.

If we had a brilliant offensive mind for a coach I can see them utilizing Lauri in various lineups like a damn unstoppable weapon. You would have to get really creative. I’m just sitting here wondering if Thibs can realistically do that.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1213 » by aggo » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:24 pm

this type of stuff only leaks because pelicans are thinking about it.

zion probably on the block this summer
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1214 » by aggo » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:30 pm

Buttah304 wrote:Lauri is just a really intriguing player and an absolute nightmare to go up against positionally.

In 20-21 he played 47% of his minutes at the 4 and 53% at the 5. The following year in Cleveland he played 65% of his minutes at the 3. Last year for Utah he spent 60% at the 4, and 20% respectively at the 3 & 5.

If we had a brilliant offensive mind for a coach I can see them utilizing Lauri in various lineups like a damn unstoppable weapon. You would have to get really creative. I’m just sitting here wondering if Thibs can realistically do that.


Lauri needs a guard who can pass to get the most out of him.


Brunson isn't the best fit because he's not the greatest playmaker. I would rather put Lauri next to LaMelo or Trae than Brunson.



the best fit for our team is a PNR big 5 that can space and take the defender out of the dunker position and completely out of the paint. this works because brunson wont need to do g-c pnr and we can hunt mismatches (like reaves LAL) with greater effect since the big can camp the 3pt line, forcing an open paint.

with mitch we cannot do this. with ihart we can SOMEtimes do this if its dribble handoff, or he is running the offense from the top but we dont really run a lot of those plays.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1215 » by moocow007 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:40 pm

Knicks218 wrote:Knicks - Trade RJ, Fournier, Sims, McBride.
for
Bulls - DeRozan, Caruso, Drummond, Craig.

PG-Brunson/Quickley/Ryan
SG-DiVincenzo/Caruso/Jeffries
SF-DeRozan/Grimes/Craig
PF-Randle/Hart/Gibson
C-Drummond/Hartenstein

*Out Mitchell Robinson


I would do this if the Bulls are willing. Derozan is a better version of RJ in almost every way. Caruso is the perfect Thibs type player and would give the Knicks another versatile defender that can also handle the ball. Drummond can give them minutes at C. Craig can add some toughness.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1216 » by rajajackal » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:49 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Bring Dwight Howard back from China

i'm guilty of having watched his taiwanese highlight reel last night
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1217 » by KnixinSix » Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:04 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:Lauri's a highly efficient scorer but he doesn't really pass the ball and he's not a playmaker at all.

Randle might be a better fit with Brunson because he helps compensate for Brunson's lack of playmaking and his tendencies as a scorer.

This offense without a secondary playmaker might just collapse. I don't know if Brunson can carry that burden on his own like a Chris Paul.


I think we could find a highly effective role for him as he would likely take minutes at the 5, 4 and 3.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1218 » by KnixinSix » Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:07 am

Buttah304 wrote:Lauri is just a really intriguing player and an absolute nightmare to go up against positionally.

In 20-21 he played 47% of his minutes at the 4 and 53% at the 5. The following year in Cleveland he played 65% of his minutes at the 3. Last year for Utah he spent 60% at the 4, and 20% respectively at the 3 & 5.

If we had a brilliant offensive mind for a coach I can see them utilizing Lauri in various lineups like a damn unstoppable weapon. You would have to get really creative. I’m just sitting here wondering if Thibs can realistically do that.


My take is Thibs is listening more to his assistant coaches and that is why we are seeing some offensive diversity. I think we would find an absolute great role for Markenen in this offense.
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1219 » by robillionaire » Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:35 am

Lauri has never played in a playoff game, he doesn’t contribute to winning basketball. Very overrated. Anybody who gives 5 picks for him is mental
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Re: 2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas 

Post#1220 » by RHODEY » Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:55 am

aggo wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:Lauri is just a really intriguing player and an absolute nightmare to go up against positionally.

In 20-21 he played 47% of his minutes at the 4 and 53% at the 5. The following year in Cleveland he played 65% of his minutes at the 3. Last year for Utah he spent 60% at the 4, and 20% respectively at the 3 & 5.

If we had a brilliant offensive mind for a coach I can see them utilizing Lauri in various lineups like a damn unstoppable weapon. You would have to get really creative. I’m just sitting here wondering if Thibs can realistically do that.


Lauri needs a guard who can pass to get the most out of him.


Brunson isn't the best fit because he's not the greatest playmaker. I would rather put Lauri next to LaMelo or Trae than Brunson.



the best fit for our team is a PNR big 5 that can space and take the defender out of the dunker position and completely out of the paint. this works because brunson wont need to do g-c pnr and we can hunt mismatches (like reaves LAL) with greater effect since the big can camp the 3pt line, forcing an open paint.

with mitch we cannot do this. with ihart we can SOMEtimes do this if its dribble handoff, or he is running the offense from the top but we dont really run a lot of those plays.
Interesting....

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