[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[johnnywishbone]

Melo missed practice, page 82!

RT @nuggetsnews: Melo a no-show at Nuggets shootaround as trade rumors heat back up http://dpo.st/gLWsWV #nuggets

Catch this part?

Adding spice to the situation is the presence today of the Houston Rockets, a franchise that remains open to ‘renting’ Anthony for the final two months of the season to help its team. The Rockets want Anthony to boost their fortunes this season and maybe, if he likes it, stay there beyond just this year.

I'm not buying it. Sounds like DEN is trying to make NYK think they have more leverage than they really do.

Dolan wants to do a trade now to lock in Melo from changing his mind, not to lock in DEN.

When I was looking the Dallas rental trade scenarios I also spent some time on looking at what Houston could offer. None of it looked real appealing for Denver - that's why I never brought it up.

But Houston did fleece Donnie in the T-Mac deal maybe their GM has some special voodoo he can use on the Nuggets too.

[god shammgod]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

[towelie]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

I have no idea. I think he's trying to employ scare tactics on NY fans so that we'd be willing to gut the farm, take on Harrington, do whatever it takes to get Melo -- ie. much like Pharmcat, but not as irritating.

[shrink]

OK - I don't put much stock in HOU, but since I'm trying to give you the MIN angle, let me mention a couple things:

MIN and HOU would work well together in a potential deal too, and we should be able to get a good personal return in addition to sneaky internal benefits.

1. MIN can escort HOU under the cap.

2. If Melo gets HOU in the play-offs. This helps MIN, because they own the MEM pick, lotto protected. If HOU pushes MEM into the lottery and MEM keeps the pick, MIN might be able to collect their pick in the deeper 2012 lottery.

3. Apparently there has been some internal discussions with HOU and MIN over the disgruntled Brooks, that have been going on for a few weeks, but nobody in MIN could put any pieces together.

In any event, I don't think there's much to this. I suspect DEN asked a favor of HOU's front office. "Could you show up so it looks like we have more leverage and can ask for more out of NYK?"

It doesn't matter a bit though, if Melo is stuck on NYK. We can only help finance a deal to the place where he wants to go.

[johnnywishbone]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

[kosmovitelli]

Hahn had a story the other day about Denver potentially using a franchise tag on Anthony, if the new CBA includes one. But then he shot down that angle from a big-market franchise / NBAPA angle. Still, he thought that Denver might hold out until at least the league meetings.

The current CBA will expire on june 30 at midnight. It's also the deadline for Melo if he wants to opt out. If Melo opts out then he will become an unrestricted free agent on july 1. I'm not an expert when it comes to Labor laws but I doubt you can insert a franchise tag for a player who is already a free agent. If a franchise tag is included in the next CBA then it will impact only future free agents (Howard, Paul, etc.).

Putting more thoughts into this as I write, I'm not even sure it will impact Howard, Paul, Deron, etc. In order to introduce a franchise tag in the CBA you will need to change current player contracts and I don't think the players will agree on that. So it will probably only impact new contracts (or extensions). When a player will sign his new contract or extension then he will agree that his team may exercise its franchise tag right on his contract and there will be a paragraph about that in the UPC (Uniform Player Contract).

A franchise tag is like a qualifying offer to make rookies restricted free agents. In 1999, after Shaq left Orlando as an unrestricted free agent, owners wanted restricted free agency for rookies. Although the CBA started in january 1999 (after the lockout), T-Mac (and others players) left his team as an unrestricted free agent in 2000 because he signed his rookie contract under the previous CBA. Restricted free agency started only with rookies signed after july 1998 (and the lockout).

There could be a franchise tag in the next CBA but if it happens then it will probably be only for contracts (or extensions) signed after the CBA took place. I doubt the players would allow a retroactive implementation.

[K_ick_God]

I got a hunch that today's missed shootaround is directly related to a discussion of Melo's future.

[god shammgod]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

basically, that's a no to me, you don't want to trade for him. what i've found is that people who are against trading for him, despite the overwhelming evidence that we'll end up with him, find every excuse why a trade can't be worked out. now i agree that we may have to take harrington or increase our offer slightly if a better rental offer pops up soon. you'd have to admit though, the most likely scenario is that melo becomes a knick no ? this has been going on all season, all signs point to the same conclusion.

[knicks742]

I got a hunch that today's missed shootaround is directly related to a discussion of Melo's future.

Yup, too much coincidence. Plus we don't play til wednesday. Hmmm.

[Jitpal]

I got a hunch that today's missed shootaround is directly related to a discussion of Melo's future.

Yup, too much coincidence. Plus we don't play til wednesday. Hmmm.

(Throwing more onto the pile)

BT mentioned that the Nuggets only have 3 home games before the trade deadline. 1 of those 3 is tonight. 2 home games isn't too bad to not have Melo, if he even plays today. -Jitpal

[tangotai]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

but wishbone... what about the possibility of trading for one of those guys next year?

I don't see anyway we have the cap room after signing Melo (trade or FA) to max out a third guy.... especially with the CBA changes looming.... but it seems very realistic that no matter what the new CBA is, if Howard or CPaul or DWill let their teams know ALA the precedent that Melo is setting right now...
that they will opt for FA .... then we need to be in a position to trade. We need assets.

Come on into the room with me and kneega --- Mr. wishbone... haha... we all want the same thing!
And we won't truly have a big 3 without one of those 2012 FA joining us....
didn't CPaul make that toast?

How else is it going to happen.... if we get Melo.... we need to have big time trade assets to be ready if the opportunity presents itself..... and what team is going to be as lame as Denver after this Melo drama plays out?

I think there is a decent chance that we trade for an elite 3rd player next year before FA.... if we have the right assets....

[Fury]

Another thing:

Chandler got his sweater stolen yesterday. Stolen? Or shipped off to Denver. You decide.

[K_ick_God]

I got a hunch that today's missed shootaround is directly related to a discussion of Melo's future.

Yup, too much coincidence. Plus we don't play til wednesday. Hmmm.

(Throwing more onto the pile)

BT mentioned that the Nuggets only have 3 home games before the trade deadline. 1 of those 3 is tonight. 2 home games isn't too bad to not have Melo, if he even plays today. -Jitpal

It also gives them fewer times to sit down with him while the team is in Denver and resolve this. It's more hectic on the road and Melo will be away for All-Star Weekend.

Maybe Denver wants one more chance to see if Melo will either sign with them or the Nyets.

[tangotai]

Another thing:

Chandler got his sweater stolen yesterday. Stolen? Or shipped off to Denver. You decide.

LOL

[SOBY]

wow melo missed practice.. thats great

[knicks742]

Another thing:

Chandler got his sweater stolen yesterday. Stolen? Or shipped off to Denver. You decide.

I hear his apartment got "robbed." However, police is following a tip that somehow his stuff is ending up west.

[ibraheim718]

ibrahim wrote:
"So are you the grand old wise one now? Are you our new leader?

Get real.... DW may in theory be running the knicks but the owner in reality has the last say and it just so happens he has a job extension hanging over DW's head. And if he wants DW who works for him to trade away Fields and Chandler Walsh is going to do it. Right now he is buying time and giving lowballing the nuggets a try. He's got a couple of weeks to do so. But the deal is going to get done and Fields or Gallo or even Mozgov isn't going to get in the way of what the owner wants.You also act as if those that would prefer to do the deal now or at the trade deadline would not want to try and give as little as possible or sign him outright in the summer IF...... Wait for it..... They knew it was a sure thing!!!! And nothing in sports is a sure thing. Now unless you know Anthony personally or his wife or are Leon rose's nephew which we can all assume you aren't you can't speak as some all seeing overlord of what Carmelo wants regardless of reports. So interject your opinion and don't try and come off as some evil wizard "sitting back reading what other posters write" and laughing to yourself....bwaaahhaaaahahaa."

-------------------------------
Well well well ... I certainly have no family connections... but it seems you are privy to what Dolan is thinking and telling Walsh. Hats off to you for knowing that Dolan is telling Walsh to trade Fields or Gallo if he has to to get Melo at the trade deadling....

As for "grand old wise one " and "leader".... look I'm just a life long Knick fan who really enjoys reading and getting educated on this board.

Time will tell who is the fool and who is wise... and hey old do I have to be to be "old" in your eyes anyway?

Time will tell .... keep on postin Ibrahim.... you make me laugh and for that I am very grateful.

I never said it was Dolan that IS telling Walsh to include Fields or Gallinari I said IF Dolan is telling him to do that Walsh WILL do it. I also don't think I as a lifelong Knicks fan would jump off a bridge if Fields or Gallinari were included in the deal. We have three draft picks next year and have significantly upgraded our player personnel department which can do some major work in the draft if their aims are targeted. We could conceivably trump the fields pick. Heck we could even replace Gallinari ( I even have a player in mind). BUT.... And here's the big BUT.... there isn't a chance in hell we find a player close to the caliber of Melo.

Wrong: We have 2 draft picks in the upcoming draft... currently #17 in the 1st round and #37 in the second round. We traded our 2nd rounder to LA to get TD on draft day remember...

The draft is by all accounts one of the weaker ones in recent memory... but you suggest that at #17 or even in the second round we might even do better than the Fields pick.

And you think we might even replace Gallo....

Ibrahim... why aren't you telling Dolan this directly... or better yet, get in touch with Isiah T..
They need this info ASAP...
LMFAO

How old are you? 16? Go back to school, get an education, learn how to think rationally and then come back and make some sensible arguments.....P L E A S E!

Read my screen name.... It's i-b-r-a-h-e-i-m.... Spell it correctly and then maybe I'll take your insult of what you think is my education seriously.

Last year's second round was considered weak and we managed to find a player. So if the work is done the same success can be had.

Walsh can easily purchase a 2nd rounder in the 2011 draft just as he did last year. The point is nobody can say we can't draft quality role players to fill roster spots in the future. You can get all excited and nitpick but it doesn't change the basis of my theory. Fields=replaceable, Gallinari=replaceable and Chandler=replaceable.... Carmelo=hard to find.

[Fury]

Another thing:

Chandler got his sweater stolen yesterday. Stolen? Or shipped off to Denver. You decide.

I hear his apartment got "robbed." However, police is following a tip that somehow his stuff is ending up west.

Funny enough we got a picture of the guy taking his stuff to Colorado.

[moocow007]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

Carmelo Anthony in his prime AND on a long term contract (i.e. without leverage like he has now) would be more flexibility to improve this team not less. Had the playing field for Melo be fair (i.e. Melo didn't have the threat of caboshing any deal with not signing an extension) the Knicks would not have enough assets to trade for him even if they included everyone. IF things don't work out and the Knicks need to do something Carmelo Anthony woudl be a HUGE trade asset. You think the Magic or Jazz or Hornets wouldn't be interested in a Carmelo Anthony swap for any of those 3 guys if those guys want out? Do you actually believe that Gallinari and Mozgov and Fields are more enticing assets to land a different big fish?

[NBA Fan 1234]

wow melo missed practice.. thats great

You made another account?

Hopefully this gets done soon...if it doesn't, it's gonna be on the Knicks and Nuggets minds when they are playing.