All Lin talk here

[21shumpshumpst]

In the month of March he had a 1.65 assist to turnover ratio. You know who else had it that bad. Mr ballhog Tyreke Evans.

His shooting percent was 41%.

Here was his shooting percentage vs good teams in March:
Bos - .375
Dal - .308
SA - .467
Philly - .278 (I don't think Philly is all that good but all of you keep thinking they are so I added them)
Chicago - .364
Pacers - .429 (again dont think they are that good but whatever)
Pacers - .600
Philly - .235

Other than the game vs the Pacers and SA he was abysmal.

For a guy that gets to the line 5 times a game and hits 85%, I can live with those shooting numbers.

Oh so you are ok with him going routinely 3/10 as long as he hits 4 free throws out of 5 and with a horrible A/TO ratio?

Oh ok. Got it.

[knicksnyk]

OMG I can post numbers to prove whatever point i want to too good or bad omg.

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

if you isolate point guards who create a lot of the “best” shots, namely layups and threes, and not long two-pointers — in theory, the worst shot in the game Andre Miller and Lawson ranked among the half-dozen “best” point guards in the league by this standard, with 67 percent of Miller’s potential assists and 56 percent of Lawson’s leading either to threes or shots at the rim [instead of long 2-pointers]. Only Jeremy Lin (68 percent) had a higher percentage of potential assists fall in those areas.

Nash,Kidd,Rondo,Rubio,Lin,Chalmers,Felton,Wall,G.Dragic,Lowry,Sessions,Nelson,B.Knight,Calderon,S.Curry,Augustin,D.Williams,D.Collison,K.Irving,D.Harris,J.Teague,Lawson,Westbrook,Conley,J.Jack,I.Thomas,J.Holiday,T.Parker,D.Rose,K.Walker,CP3,Jennings

Among these 32 starting PGs above, in the last reg. season,
Lin ranks 6th in AST%...elite level
Lin ranks 28th in TOV%...bottom level (Nash, Kidd, Rondo and Rubio were worse.)
Lin ranks 5th in USG%...dominating role
Lin ranks 11th in TS%...above average
Lin ranks 13th in TRB%...average
Lin ranks 5th in STL%...elite level
Lin ranks 5th in BLK%...elite level
Lin ranks 2nd in DRtg...elite level (Rondo ranks 1st)
Lin ranks 5th in MP when he was a starter...mass loading
Lin ranks 9th in PER...above average
Lin ranks 8th in AST per 36 mins...above average
Lin ranks 32th in TOV per 36 mins...worst
Lin ranks 1st in FTA per 36 mins...best

Overall? I would say Lin was playing like an above average to borderline elite level PG in those 35 games.

Positive side:
Lin is the only one that ranks TOP 5 in both STL% and BLK% among PGs at this point.
Lin had almost as many FTA per 36 mins as Durant had in the last reg. season. (Lin: 7.0 Durant: 7.1)

Nagative side:
Lin is the only another one that turned the ball over at a rate of over 20%(21.4%) in TOV% with a USG% of over 20%(28.1%) among these guys besides Rondo, who turned the ball over at a rate of 22.8% in TOV% with a USG% of 20.7%.

4th quarter second highest PER behind CP3 at 33

clutch within 5 minutes of the end within 5 points--avgs 46 points per 48 minutes

6th highest FG% in ISO

Of 102 players who attempted 90+ jumpers off the dribble last season, only Steph Curry & Steve Nash shot better than Jeremy Lin (47.9 pct).

Jeremy Lin had more isolation plays (and hit them at an elite level) in his abbreviated season than Jason Kidd had in the last 3 seasons combined

[Phish Tank]

In the month of March he had a 1.65 assist to turnover ratio. You know who else had it that bad. Mr ballhog Tyreke Evans.

His shooting percent was 41%.

Here was his shooting percentage vs good teams in March:
Bos - .375
Dal - .308
SA - .467
Philly - .278 (I don't think Philly is all that good but all of you keep thinking they are so I added them)
Chicago - .364
Pacers - .429 (again dont think they are that good but whatever)
Pacers - .600
Philly - .235

Other than the game vs the Pacers and SA he was abysmal.

For a guy that gets to the line 5 times a game and hits 85%, I can live with those shooting numbers.

ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

[Fury]

Well, in the games he had a really bad FG%, he was 21-24 (Chicago, Dallas, Philly Game). That's good.

And 19 assists with 7 turnovers. So the ratio is better in those games. The first Philly game he didn't do well protecting the ball while scoring inefficiently, but he improved on that.

[knicksnyk]

ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

my prediction was that Lin & shump develop into our back court of the future & extend our win now period further than 3 years. Melos game lasts & ideally tysons game as well. so you hve 4 guys with insane chemistry going forward a really nice core. not just lin by himself but Lin & shump.

Well, in the games he had a really bad FG%, he was 21-24 (Chicago, Dallas, Philly Game). That's good.

And 19 assists with 7 turnovers. So the ratio is better in those games. The first Philly game he didn't do well protecting the ball while scoring inefficiently, but he improved on that.

it is easy to manipulate statistics to prove whatever f*cking point you want. 21shump is particularly good at that i just return the favour.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

[
For a guy that gets to the line 5 times a game and hits 85%, I can live with those shooting numbers.

Oh so you are ok with him going routinely 3/10 as long as he hits 4 free throws out of 5 and with a horrible A/TO ratio?

Oh ok. Got it.

3/10 and 4/5 are not the numbers he put up in March.

41% fg and 85% ft on 5 attempts is fine. I'm assuming he'll cut down on the TO's as he gets more experienced.

[Phish Tank]

ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

my prediction was that Lin & shump develop into our back court of the future & extend our win now period further than 3 years. Melos game lasts & ideally tysons game as well. so you hve 4 guys with insane chemistry going forward a really nice core. not just lin by himself but Lin & shump.

ok, i'll buy that. Now the other question is: Do you think Lin is/will be worth max cat dollars? Think about post-year 3, where common knowledge, unless he severely injures himself, will probably tell me that Lin will be asking for max dollars, especially since he'd be like 26 at the time and coming off a year where he just made 15 mill. I doubt he'll be asking for less money.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

He might become good enough to be the difference between a team that loses to Miami every year and a championship team.

Don't you remember how most of this board excused our embarrassing performance against Miami by pointing out that we didn't have Lin?

[21shumpshumpst]

OMG I can post numbers to prove whatever point i want to too good or bad omg.

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

if you isolate point guards who create a lot of the “best” shots, namely layups and threes, and not long two-pointers — in theory, the worst shot in the game Andre Miller and Lawson ranked among the half-dozen “best” point guards in the league by this standard, with 67 percent of Miller’s potential assists and 56 percent of Lawson’s leading either to threes or shots at the rim [instead of long 2-pointers]. Only Jeremy Lin (68 percent) had a higher percentage of potential assists fall in those areas.

Nash,Kidd,Rondo,Rubio,Lin,Chalmers,Felton,Wall,G.Dragic,Lowry,Sessions,Nelson,B.Knight,Calderon,S.Curry,Augustin,D.Williams,D.Collison,K.Irving,D.Harris,J.Teague,Lawson,Westbrook,Conley,J.Jack,I.Thomas,J.Holiday,T.Parker,D.Rose,K.Walker,CP3,Jennings

Among these 32 starting PGs above, in the last reg. season,
Lin ranks 6th in AST%...elite level
Lin ranks 28th in TOV%...bottom level (Nash, Kidd, Rondo and Rubio were worse.)
Lin ranks 5th in USG%...dominating role
Lin ranks 11th in TS%...above average
Lin ranks 13th in TRB%...average
Lin ranks 5th in STL%...elite level
Lin ranks 5th in BLK%...elite level
Lin ranks 2nd in DRtg...elite level (Rondo ranks 1st)
Lin ranks 5th in MP when he was a starter...mass loading
Lin ranks 9th in PER...above average
Lin ranks 8th in AST per 36 mins...above average
Lin ranks 32th in TOV per 36 mins...worst
Lin ranks 1st in FTA per 36 mins...best

Overall? I would say Lin was playing like an above average to borderline elite level PG in those 35 games.

Positive side:
Lin is the only one that ranks TOP 5 in both STL% and BLK% among PGs at this point.
Lin had almost as many FTA per 36 mins as Durant had in the last reg. season. (Lin: 7.0 Durant: 7.1)

Nagative side:
Lin is the only another one that turned the ball over at a rate of over 20%(21.4%) in TOV% with a USG% of over 20%(28.1%) among these guys besides Rondo, who turned the ball over at a rate of 22.8% in TOV% with a USG% of 20.7%.

4th quarter second highest PER behind CP3 at 33

clutch within 5 minutes of the end within 5 points--avgs 46 points per 48 minutes

6th highest FG% in ISO

Of 102 players who attempted 90+ jumpers off the dribble last season, only Steph Curry & Steve Nash shot better than Jeremy Lin (47.9 pct).

Jeremy Lin had more isolation plays (and hit them at an elite level) in his abbreviated season than Jason Kidd had in the last 3 seasons combined

Thanks for proving my point.

Vs .500 competition his A/TO 1.48. Which is even worse than his whole month of march. That is worse than Mario Chalmers.

His points were high by shooting an inefficient was 42.3%.

The funny thing is you use all this stupid "advanced stats like per36" which are the most idiotic things ever.

So a guy who averages 7pts/4ast in 12 minutes is going to average 21/12 in 36 minutes?

The idiocy of these stats is that it doesn't take into account the fatigue of the player. The way the defenses play him differently because he is a bigger part of the team. A guy who plays 12 minutes will not be gameplaned against. A guy playing 36 will be. Then it doesn't take into account the chemistry he has with his team. How his role differs from a guy playing 12 minutes to a guy playing 36.

All these stupid, yes stupid, "advanced stats" are just idiotic ways to try to make players, ALL PLAYERS not just Lin look better than they really are.

I don't care about per 36 or whatever. All I care about is the ACTUAL ppg/asts/tos/rbs they had in each game. And given those numbers Lin is not very good vs good teams. Thanks for making my point.

[Fury]

Why does that matter? We'll cross that bridge when he's a FA. You reassess. If he's worth the max give it to him, if not, don't. Problem solved. But paying him max for one year isn't terrible.

[Fury]

But Jeremy Lin is not a 12 minute player, not even close. So your argument falls short because teams DID gameplan against him and he did play a lot of minutes.

[knicksnyk]

ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

my prediction was that Lin & shump develop into our back court of the future & extend our win now period further than 3 years. Melos game lasts & ideally tysons game as well. so you hve 4 guys with insane chemistry going forward a really nice core. not just lin by himself but Lin & shump.

ok, i'll buy that. Now the other question is: Do you think Lin is/will be worth max cat dollars? Think about post-year 3, where common knowledge, unless he severely injures himself, will probably tell me that Lin will be asking for max dollars, especially since he'd be like 26 at the time and coming off a year where he just made 15 mill. I doubt he'll be asking for less money.

depends on how he develops. I am not just thinking about just Lin. It isn't just about jeremy. I liked the tandem of Lin & shump. Lin I doubt will ever be a crazy defensive player he will improve but won't be like elite on that score & shump i think wont b the greatest offensive player either but his defense will be nice. so the two of them compliment each other perfectly. so if the two of them develop like i think they could have to the point where they are a contending caliber backcourt then yes they would b getting paid a lot more. I don't know about max cat $$ (what do you mean by it like dwill 100million dollars money??)

[Phish Tank]

ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

He might become good enough to be the difference between a team that loses to Miami every year and a championship team.

Don't you remember how most of this board excused our embarrassing performance against Miami by pointing out that we didn't have Lin?

I do remember that and I was tempted to believe the same way too, but realistically I knew that we may have only squeezed out one more win with Lin in the lineup. I thought Lin would still get destroyed this year... well maybe not destroyed, but severely neutralized. Now this is also assuming Shump hadn't torn his ACL. I think Shump's injury was a major killer, even though he didn't shoot particularly well in Game 1.

[Fury]

How is 42% against good defensive teams bad? Especially when you get to the line.

[Phish Tank]

I don't know about max cat $$ (what do you mean by it like dwill 100million dollars money??)

yup, basically

[21shumpshumpst]

Well, in the games he had a really bad FG%, he was 21-24 (Chicago, Dallas, Philly Game). That's good.

And 19 assists with 7 turnovers. So the ratio is better in those games. The first Philly game he didn't do well protecting the ball while scoring inefficiently, but he improved on that.

No one is saying he is a bad free throw shooter.

He averaged 6.3 assits in those 3 games with 2.3 turnovers. He also had abysmal shooting.

Now is that a superstar pg that we are missing out?

My point with all my stats are that nothing screams 'WE MISSED OUT ON A SURE THING OMG WE ARE SCREWED"

Linsanity was well above the mean for Lin. It was his Tebow moment. He came back down to earth.

Is he an awful pg? No. But he is not this sure fire hall of famer we missed out on either.

[bklynstoops]

[
ok, that's fine. Now let me ask you this question. Given the current roster right now and the rosters in 2013 and 2014, is Jeremy Lin the difference between us winning a championship or not? AKA take whoever's on our roster right now/in the future with Raymond Felton and replace him with Lin. Is/Would Lin the difference between us being a 1st/2nd round playoff team and a team that reaches the NBA finals?

i think over the next 3 years, he possibly could've been that player that makes a difference. I can tell you confidently Felton is not. The kid has the skills, the right mind set, the physical gifts, and the work ethic to make him a low risk/high reward gamble in my mind. And it fell into our laps. How often does that happen?

[knicksnyk]

Thanks for proving my point.

Vs .500 competition his A/TO 1.48. Which is even worse than his whole month of march. That is worse than Mario Chalmers.

His points were high by shooting an inefficient was 42.3%.

The funny thing is you use all this stupid "advanced stats like per36" which are the most idiotic things ever.

So a guy who averages 7pts/4ast in 12 minutes is going to average 21/12 in 36 minutes?

The idiocy of these stats is that it doesn't take into account the fatigue of the player. The way the defenses play him differently because he is a bigger part of the team. A guy who plays 12 minutes will not be gameplaned against. A guy playing 36 will be. Then it doesn't take into account the chemistry he has with his team. How his role differs from a guy playing 12 minutes to a guy playing 36.

All these stupid, yes stupid, "advanced stats" are just idiotic ways to try to make players, ALL PLAYERS not just Lin look better than they really are.

I don't care about per 36 or whatever. All I care about is the ACTUAL ppg/asts/tos/rbs they had in each game. And given those numbers Lin is not very good vs good teams. Thanks for making my point.

lmao your foolish. nobody says that statistics or advanced statistics are the be all and end all of the nba but to completely discount them makes you totally dumb. you use both statistics & watch the game. and your entire gripe is assist to turnover ratio. you realize that more turnovers in a younger pg indicates a higher upside?? this was proven by the sloan analytics sports conference. so i would take turnovers all day if it meant that the player would have a higher upside. mario chalmers isn't even a f*cking pg for christ sake. & you know whats even more hilarious despite lins turnovers the knicks turnover problems never really changed once he started playing. we were still turnover prone before lin & after he got injured. adding lin's turnovers really didn't affect the team in the long run but teh big difference was we were winning with him. please just stop talking you have no point.

[21shumpshumpst]

But Jeremy Lin is not a 12 minute player, not even close. So your argument falls short because teams DID gameplan against him and he did play a lot of minutes.

They gameplanned against him after linsanity. Hence the month of March. And he put up anemic shooting numbers.

He had the element of surprise during linsanity. And those statistics are skewed because of that.

That is why if you put his February vs March numbers there is a huge drop off.

[Fury]

Well, in the games he had a really bad FG%, he was 21-24 (Chicago, Dallas, Philly Game). That's good.

And 19 assists with 7 turnovers. So the ratio is better in those games. The first Philly game he didn't do well protecting the ball while scoring inefficiently, but he improved on that.

No one is saying he is a bad free throw shooter.

He averaged 6.3 assits in those 3 games with 2.3 turnovers. He also had abysmal shooting.

Now is that a superstar pg that we are missing out?

My point with all my stats are that nothing screams 'WE MISSED OUT ON A SURE THING OMG WE ARE SCREWED"

Linsanity was well above the mean for Lin. It was his Tebow moment. He came back down to earth.

Is he an awful pg? No. But he is not this sure fire hall of famer we missed out on either.

That's not the point. But what he MIGHT be, is the only way we have a chance against the Heat compared to what Felton IS. We should have taken the risk.

But Jeremy Lin is not a 12 minute player, not even close. So your argument falls short because teams DID gameplan against him and he did play a lot of minutes.

They gameplanned against him after linsanity. Hence the month of March. And he put up anemic shooting numbers.

He had the element of surprise during linsanity. And those statistics are skewed because of that.

That is why if you put his February vs March numbers there is a huge drop off.

And yet he still had some good games sprinkled in. You can't expect all-star numbers against good teams anyway, but he fought hard and put up decent numbers in some games.