Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond

[alphad0gz]

So, let's talk a bit about RJ, in terms of his projection and some perceived or real flaws.

I'm not going to go into every perceived flaw - that his shooting could be better or decision making or going right, but one specific area/s.

So, something of a knock on RJ is he's more straight line athleticism who lacks wiggle, which would keep him from being elite and the straight line athleticism would be more easily countered at the NBA level. I'd assume for now I THINK it could be added that if his jumper is inconsistent, teams would also play off him, so that's an extra step for the defender to counter that athleticism, plus the obvious that there are more tall, fast, strong guys in the NBA.

As an aside, while I see that lack of wiggle that Spencer and others have referred to, as well as being shot happy at times, one video pointed out that RJ has a really good, long 2nd stride he uses creatively, with explosion, with a euro step. I think that move alone bodes well he's not busting at the NBA level, along with being 6'7" and really athletic and a decent all around game. I get the arguments over how high his potential, ceiling vs floor etc, but not a bust. That's crazy talk.

Anyway, here's the question to those good amateur scouts on here and people with a better long term memory about player attributes:

"Have any low wiggle, straight line scoring wing ever had a very good NBA career? I guess we can narrow it to guards, as I figure RJ would play the 2 on the Knicks"

"Has any low wiggle player developed it after a few years? By the time a guy reaches the NBA, even if as young as 18/19, is that more good court vision - either you have it by now or you don't"

Just a little discussion around RJ, with the assumption the Knicks draft him and don't trade him away - which I have no idea what happens, and would be happy with the right kind of AD trade and happy without AD

I can’t think of any “low wiggle” players that have succeeded unless they added something to their game like a long range shot or some isolation dribble moves to create space. He will benefit from the increased pace + his reputation for going to rim will get him some whistles.

I really couldn't think of anyone who was kind of straight line without a 3.

Thunder Dan Marjerle (sp?) was kind of straight line. He also wasn't a star and was also a big 3 point shooter, at least for his era.

Melo, Lebron, Pierce, for starters. Wade didn't have "wiggle" but he had a good handle and crossover. Guy shot under30% percent for his career and seemed to do OK. There's been many over the years. BTW, he had no trouble getting to the rim (and finishing) even w/o "wiggle". There wasn't a single player that stopped him and he played against some of the best defenders. I really believe he helped Zion more than is talked about.

[Richard4444]

I’d love to know how we would trade for AD (after signing 2 max players) without the contract of Frank to throw in it.

Would we keep Lance as the salary trade bait?

If Franks out, we would save at least 2,2M besides Trier. It will increase the tradeble salary by eliminating a incomplete roster charge of 900K. We for example could bring back Jenkins for 2M and offer Trier and him to NO.

It only will be a problem if NO dont have a extra roster spot to accommodate the salary filler Jenkins 2M contract.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Lol just read an article Cavs would trade 5 and 26 for 3. Not nearly enough...

Yea, def not worth it. The only thing of interest from the cavs would be future picks and they probably dont want to give those up without heavy protection

[newyorker4ever]

I am curious. If we had won the 2pick, Ja would won the poll? Would be more chalenge to fit him along Dennis and Max PG and NO could value RJ more.

Maybe it was better picked the 3pick instead the 2pick. Same player for less salary.

I think it is almost indiferent. Ja looks a bit better. But RJ has better fit in the team.

That #2 pick and J.Morant is a much easier trade piece then #3 pick and RJ Barrett though because maybe not all but most look at J.Morant as a star in the NBA more then they look at Barrett because he's shown to be that at PG. I don't think it's ever better to get a lower pick. If you wanna keep the pick then it's an easy decision to take Morant and trade DSJ to whoever wants him with the bdest return. Not saying we can't trade the #3 pick and that getting Barrett isn't valuable but not like that #2 pick and Morant. I'd rather draft Morant and sign KD and J.Butler than draft RJ Barrett and sign KD and Kyrie.

[Clyde_Style]

I didn't sit through a god awful season to trade away the draft pick gained from such craptastic hoops.

Draft the BPA, whether that is RJ or someone else, and bet on them becoming a star. Enough of this BS.

[newyorker4ever]

Cam Reddish and Jaxson Hayes should be their targets.

I don’t think they should be the ones going for Bol Bol. Collins is not a Center and I think Hayes complement him better.

I don't think Cam is there at 8.

I think with the way the lottery played out Cam can be there at 8 if he is ranked last among fellow wings like Hunter and Culver and if the top 3 PGs all go in front of him.

I think with the way the lottery played out there is a chance Cam could fall to 8. It depends on how he stacks against his fellow wings like Hunter and Culver and if the 3 top PG’s in the draft go in front of him.

Reddish could easily end up being the steal of the lottery if he goes at 8 or later. There's a very good chance that at Duke he just took the backseat to Zion and Barrett and ended up losing his way because of it and could end up being the guy everyone thought he was gonna be in college when he gets to the NBA.

[newyorker4ever]

Earlier in the season I couldn’t bring myself to get enamored with Culver as I believe lower ranked guys like KPJr and Langford were the ones with abilities that could translate to the NBA.

Culver’s lack of burst on top of his inconsistent shooting worries me in terms of his potential to be a great player in the league.

Culver reminds me of Frank. I would not trade down for him. I’ll be pretty mad if we did.

How do you feel about RJ still? He is growing on me a little bit. He is still a very flawed player but I am starting to see some star potential in him. His FIBA tape makes him look like a god

Culver is more like SGA, who is a bit like Frank in that he is long, limited burst, heady beyond his years, and can make good reads on both ends but unlike Frank also knows how to get his own offense and doesn't turn into a pumpkin all the time. I'm VERY high on Culver but definitely don't see an elite ceiling. He's just very likely to hit a high outcome. If Little or Porter had his head for the game they'd be at the top of the draft.

If they just listened to me and drafted SGA over Knox things would be very different for us right now. SGA showed out in the playoffs to so he showed as a rookie that he can play when the pressure is on.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[newyorker4ever]

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the way it should be

Please be selling KD on carrying these kids.

KD isn't coming by himself. As a matter of fact i feel today that we're gonna strike out in free agency more then i've felt this way since all the KD to New York talk started. I hate feeling this way but i think players like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more then they're looking at us and Kawhi is going out west to most likely the Clippers and Jerry West will also pull off the AD trade and Middleton stays with the Bucks and Klay of course stays with GSW and i'm not signing Kemba without getting K.Durant and although i'm a big fan of his i'm not signing T.Harris to a max deal. As i've been saying all along, if we don't get one of KD, AD or Kawhi then i'm not signing any other max or near max players and just keeping on building which sucks because we're far far away from building anything great through the draft because of our misses with our first round picks the last couple of years with Knox and Frank. I think Knox could become a good offensive player but he showed no effort on the defensive end and to me that's a miss for a lottery pick. Should of drafted SGA.

[newyorker4ever]

Kemba / Smith / Allen
Frank / Dotson / Trier / Jenkins
Barrett / Knox / Vince
Durant / Melo / Vonleh
Cousins / Mitch / Pau / Kornet

I want this

Cousins for the MLE is a better assett than Jordan... with that core you have more than enough for another major trade in midseason or two minor ones

Yeah i'd want that to but why would Cousins take the mid level from us when he can get that and probably more to stay with the once again champions GSW's??

[Traveyknicks23]

the way it should be

Please be selling KD on carrying these kids.

KD isn't coming by himself. As a matter of fact i feel today that we're gonna strike out in free agency more then i've felt this way since all the KD to New York talk started. I hate feeling this way but i think players like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more then they're looking at us and Kawhi is going out west to most likely the Clippers and Jerry West will also pull off the AD trade and Middleton stays with the Bucks and Klay of course stays with GSW and i'm not signing Kemba without getting K.Durant and although i'm a big fan of his i'm not signing T.Harris to a max deal. As i've been saying all along, if we don't get one of KD, AD or Kawhi then i'm not signing any other max or near max players and just keeping on building which sucks because we're far far away from building anything great through the draft because of our misses with our first round picks the last couple of years with Knox and Frank. I think Knox could become a good offensive player but he showed no effort on the defensive end and to me that's a miss for a lottery pick. Should of drafted SGA.

Nothings changed so idk where these hottakes are coming from

[newyorker4ever]

Read on Twitter

KD talking about RJ

Someone posted this a couple days ago in i think this thread. It was one of these threads and cool to see but would be much cooler to see if it was done after we got the 3rd pick in the draft.

[F N 11]

Lol just read an article Cavs would trade 5 and 26 for 3. Not nearly enough...

Yea, def not worth it. The only thing of interest from the cavs would be future picks and they probably dont want to give those up without heavy protection

Please explain protection to me. It’s one thing I never bothered researching on lol.

[newyorker4ever]

Lol just read an article Cavs would trade 5 and 26 for 3. Not nearly enough...

I'll trade them DSJ, Frank and the #3 pick for C.Sexton, #5 and #26.

Maybe just one of DSJ or Frank but would probably do both.

Then i draft RJ Hunter at #5.

[2010]

The more I deep dive into RJ's video footage, the more I realize it wouldn't be the smart move to bet against him. Dude has the potential to be a triple-double threat on any given night.

If he was white and did some fancy dribbling we would be comparing him to Luka. Dude is going to be a all around player. He is in good hands with Barrett Sr and Steve Nash. I really want to draft him. Dude is a 6’7 slasher shot creator. It would be a mistake to trade this kid remember I said that.

The things he fuq up on his what most young players fuq up on. Decision making and consistency shooting. He has everything else tho.

Yeah they would go under picks against him but if anything I’ve seen from Barrett he would work to improve.

Let’s not act like teams not going to pack the paint against Zion. All these kids have to improve.

And also, think about it like this. Every criticism we have about Knox and Frank offensively, RJ is strong in those areas.

[newyorker4ever]

Please be selling KD on carrying these kids.

KD isn't coming by himself. As a matter of fact i feel today that we're gonna strike out in free agency more then i've felt this way since all the KD to New York talk started. I hate feeling this way but i think players like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more then they're looking at us and Kawhi is going out west to most likely the Clippers and Jerry West will also pull off the AD trade and Middleton stays with the Bucks and Klay of course stays with GSW and i'm not signing Kemba without getting K.Durant and although i'm a big fan of his i'm not signing T.Harris to a max deal. As i've been saying all along, if we don't get one of KD, AD or Kawhi then i'm not signing any other max or near max players and just keeping on building which sucks because we're far far away from building anything great through the draft because of our misses with our first round picks the last couple of years with Knox and Frank. I think Knox could become a good offensive player but he showed no effort on the defensive end and to me that's a miss for a lottery pick. Should of drafted SGA.

Nothings changed so idk where these hottakes are coming from

Sure things have changed. More rumors have come out and remember that KD and Kyrie coming to the Knicks are also rumors. I believe the rumors of guys like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more than they're looking at the Knicks and i think either just Butler could go there and they keep D.Russell or if he says he wants to come with Kyrie then they would let Russell leave to get both Kyrie and Butler. Don't forget that some of the earliest rumors were that Kyrie and Butler who are good friends wanted to team up and play for the Knicks next year so maybe now that they see the Knicks with most of their focus on getting KD and or AD that they've decided that for them to play together and do it in New York it would have to be Brooklyn who has a much better core then we have for sure. These are all rumors and me speculating but i don't think any of what i just said is too far fetched and if we can't get Kyrie or AD or another star to come with KD then i don't think he comes alone.

[whocares1]

Lol just read an article Cavs would trade 5 and 26 for 3. Not nearly enough...

Yea, def not worth it. The only thing of interest from the cavs would be future picks and they probably dont want to give those up without heavy protection

Please explain protection to me. It’s one thing I never bothered researching on lol.

If a pick is protected it means that if it falls under the parameters of the protection the team that traded for the pick won’t get it. They’ll be compensated in a different way.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Lol just read an article Cavs would trade 5 and 26 for 3. Not nearly enough...

Yea, def not worth it. The only thing of interest from the cavs would be future picks and they probably dont want to give those up without heavy protection

Please explain protection to me. It’s one thing I never bothered researching on lol.

A team could trade a future pick, and make it Top 5/10/15 etc protected in a specific year. So if it was top 10 protected in 2020 and the pick ended up being #9 the pick does not get traded that year. It usually gets rolled over to the following year if that is what is agreed upon or there could be additional protection

[Tron Carter]

The more I deep dive into RJ's video footage, the more I realize it wouldn't be the smart move to bet against him. Dude has the potential to be a triple-double threat on any given night.

If he was white and did some fancy dribbling we would be comparing him to Luka. Dude is going to be a all around player. He is in good hands with Barrett Sr and Steve Nash. I really want to draft him. Dude is a 6’7 slasher shot creator. It would be a mistake to trade this kid remember I said that.

The things he fuq up on his what most young players fuq up on. Decision making and consistency shooting. He has everything else tho.

Yeah they would go under picks against him but if anything I’ve seen from Barrett he would work to improve.

Let’s not act like teams not going to pack the paint against Zion. All these kids have to improve.

And also, think about it like this. Every criticism we have about Knox and Frank offensively, RJ is strong in those areas.

except efficiency for both and defense for knox. but he actually has dawg in him.

[whocares1]

The more I deep dive into RJ's video footage, the more I realize it wouldn't be the smart move to bet against him. Dude has the potential to be a triple-double threat on any given night.

If he was white and did some fancy dribbling we would be comparing him to Luka. Dude is going to be a all around player. He is in good hands with Barrett Sr and Steve Nash. I really want to draft him. Dude is a 6’7 slasher shot creator. It would be a mistake to trade this kid remember I said that.

The things he fuq up on his what most young players fuq up on. Decision making and consistency shooting. He has everything else tho.

Yeah they would go under picks against him but if anything I’ve seen from Barrett he would work to improve.

Let’s not act like teams not going to pack the paint against Zion. All these kids have to improve.

And also, think about it like this. Every criticism we have about Knox and Frank offensively, RJ is strong in those areas.

Luka is a way better prospect than RJ. Outside shooting ability(+off the dribble) and vision. RJ is however the right choice at three because he has the highest ceiling at 3 than seemingly anyone under him besides maybe Garland.