[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[Knicks_Fan2]

Not to mention nobody is buying tickets in the next couple hours...tickets for tonight's game are sold

[ibraheim718]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

basically, that's a no to me, you don't want to trade for him. what i've found is that people who are against trading for him, despite the overwhelming evidence that we'll end up with him, find every excuse why a trade can't be worked out. now i agree that we may have to take harrington or increase our offer slightly if a better rental offer pops up soon. you'd have to admit though, the most likely scenario is that melo becomes a knick no ? this has been going on all season, all signs point to the same conclusion.

I've got a question for you shammgod.... if the choice is between taking back Harrington or giving up Fields what would you choose?

[moocow007]

wow melo missed practice.. thats great

Ok...so here goes...if you're waived/banned...it's for good. It doesn't mean you can just create a new account and come back. Whatever the reason you were banned, banned is banned.

[ibraheim718]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

Carmelo Anthony in his prime AND on a long term contract (i.e. without leverage like he has now) would be more flexibility to improve this team not less. Had the playing field for Melo be fair (i.e. Melo didn't have the threat of caboshing any deal with not signing an extension) the Knicks would not have enough assets to trade for him even if they included everyone. IF things don't work out and the Knicks need to do something Carmelo Anthony woudl be a HUGE trade asset. You think the Magic or Jazz or Hornets wouldn't be interested in a Carmelo Anthony swap for any of those 3 guys if those guys want out? Do you actually believe that Gallinari and Mozgov and Fields are more enticing assets to land a different big fish?

Hey moo read my question to Shammgod... what would you do? Including fields in the deal or taking back Harrington's contract?

[tangotai]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

Carmelo Anthony in his prime AND on a long term contract (i.e. without leverage like he has now) would be more flexibility to improve this team not less. Had the playing field for Melo be fair (i.e. Melo didn't have the threat of caboshing any deal with not signing an extension) the Knicks would not have enough assets to trade for him even if they included everyone. IF things don't work out and the Knicks need to do something Carmelo Anthony woudl be a HUGE trade asset. You think the Magic or Jazz or Hornets wouldn't be interested in a Carmelo Anthony swap for any of those 3 guys if those guys want out? Do you actually believe that Gallinari and Mozgov and Fields are more enticing assets to land a different big fish?

Mooooo... I want it all. Melo locked in (trade asset or Knick hero) AND young talent on the roster (trade bait for 2012)... hey the only way to get better is to keep stockpiling talent and look for opportunities to change what you have into what will make you better.

Fact is that like you said Melo locked in is a huge trade asset if for some reason we don't jell as a team with him and Ray and Amare...
and
the 3 young core guys; Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed, give us tremendous leverage next year in the trade market.

[Gregory151]

I got a hunch that today's missed shootaround is directly related to a discussion of Melo's future.

Yup, too much coincidence. Plus we don't play til wednesday. Hmmm.

(Throwing more onto the pile)

BT mentioned that the Nuggets only have 3 home games before the trade deadline. 1 of those 3 is tonight. 2 home games isn't too bad to not have Melo, if he even plays today. -Jitpal

Man if i see that for whatever "reason" he misses the game tonight i'll be hype.. i can not lie

[god shammgod]

I've got a question for you shammgod.... if the choice is between taking back Harrington or giving up Fields what would you choose?

i would take harrington. i don't believe we'll be under the cap again to sign anyone even if we wait to the summer to get melo. felton, fields, gallo, turiaf, all of them expire in 2012. we're not going to let everyone go. adding his contract is inconsequential. keeping assets/players is more important to me.

[Jitpal]

Man if i see that for whatever "reason" he misses the game tonight i'll be hype.. i can not lie

T-Wolves have a game tonight too. If Brewer, Telfair or Ridnour don't play, it could be something as well. -Jitpal

[NBA Fan 1234]

I'd rather take back Harrington than trade Fields.

If we are forced to take Harrington, we could try to trade him to the Mavs (they were very interested in him in the summer).

[tangotai]

I've got a question for you shammgod.... if the choice is between taking back Harrington or giving up Fields what would you choose?

i would take harrington. i don't believe we'll be under the cap again to sign anyone even if we wait to the summer to get melo. felton, fields, gallo, turiaf, all of them expire in 2012. we're not going to let everyone go. adding his contract is inconsequential. keeping assets/players is more important to me.

+1

and I apologize to Ibraheim for mis spelling your name. No disrespect meant.

[ibraheim718]

I've got a question for you shammgod.... if the choice is between taking back Harrington or giving up Fields what would you choose?

i would take harrington. i don't believe we'll be under the cap again to sign anyone even if we wait to the summer to get melo. felton, fields, gallo, turiaf, all of them expire in 2012. we're not going to let everyone go. adding his contract is inconsequential. keeping assets/players is more important to me.

+1

and I apologize to Ibraheim for mis spelling your name. No disrespect meant.

You didn't disrespect me. You disrespected yourself.

And I would rather trade fields.

[moocow007]

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

Carmelo Anthony in his prime AND on a long term contract (i.e. without leverage like he has now) would be more flexibility to improve this team not less. Had the playing field for Melo be fair (i.e. Melo didn't have the threat of caboshing any deal with not signing an extension) the Knicks would not have enough assets to trade for him even if they included everyone. IF things don't work out and the Knicks need to do something Carmelo Anthony woudl be a HUGE trade asset. You think the Magic or Jazz or Hornets wouldn't be interested in a Carmelo Anthony swap for any of those 3 guys if those guys want out? Do you actually believe that Gallinari and Mozgov and Fields are more enticing assets to land a different big fish?

Hey moo read my question to Shammgod... what would you do? Including fields in the deal or taking back Harrington's contract?

On top of Chandler, AR and Turiaf? Can I choose neither? Tough one...I'd probably look to buy a draft pick in the upcoming draft and offer it and the 2013 pick to Denver. I think from a big picture standpoint, you take Harrington instead of dealing Fields. Harrington can be moved (though not easy) for someone that might fit a greater need even if it's the same position.

[Context]

I've got a question for you shammgod.... if the choice is between taking back Harrington or giving up Fields what would you choose?

i would take harrington. i don't believe we'll be under the cap again to sign anyone even if we wait to the summer to get melo. felton, fields, gallo, turiaf, all of them expire in 2012. we're not going to let everyone go. adding his contract is inconsequential. keeping assets/players is more important to me.

+1

and I apologize to Ibraheim for mis spelling your name. No disrespect meant.

If forced to choose- HELLO I 'll take Harrington back and keep Fields all day...

[moocow007]

I'd rather take back Harrington than trade Fields.

If we are forced to take Harrington, we could try to trade him to the Mavs (they were very interested in him in the summer).

Yeah I think that's why I would do the same. I think Harrington can be moved. Obviously not for an expiring but for someone on a long term deal that might be a better fit.

[moocow007]

But in any case I think it's a bit premature to assume that the Knicks must either include Fields or take Harrington. It may be a compromise where NY ends up with Birdman (long term deal but better fit).

[johnnywishbone]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

basically, that's a no to me, you don't want to trade for him. what i've found is that people who are against trading for him, despite the overwhelming evidence that we'll end up with him, find every excuse why a trade can't be worked out. now i agree that we may have to take harrington or increase our offer slightly if a better rental offer pops up soon. you'd have to admit though, the most likely scenario is that melo becomes a knick no ? this has been going on all season, all signs point to the same conclusion.

No on no. I see what you are getting at but really I'm trying to understand the process and that runs a 100% contrary to the psychological phenomena you are assigning to me.

To reiterate I said if were the Knicks GM I'd trade for Melo because you don't have any other choice. If it means giving up Chandler/Fields/AR or Gallo/Fields/AR I think Donnie has to do it and I think that's what it will take to get it done before the trade deadline. But I'd prefer (as I'm sure the Knicks would too) to sign Melo as a free agent under the new CBA. My guess is we'd get a contract that would be a better deal for us because I believe whole point of the new CBA is to give team owners a more level playing field in negotiations with players.

[ibraheim718]

I'd rather take back Harrington than trade Fields.

If we are forced to take Harrington, we could try to trade him to the Mavs (they were very interested in him in the summer).

Yeah... but you don't know at what price Cuban was interested. I don't like his contract. I would rather purchase a 1st rounder.

Have any of you guys heard of the rookie Wall? Well it's coming. I like Fields as a 3 off the bench (on a championship team) but not a 2 that is asked to guard the likes of Wade. He can't cover 2 guards with a quick first step or a crafty point guard like Ray Allen or Kobe Bryant. There is no way around it you need to at the very least build a team that can compete with Miami. I like him at the three but he is not the ideal two guard.

[Im Coming Home]

So whats the trade looking like now?

NYK Out: Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Andy Rautins, Kelena Azubuike, Wilson Chandler, Picks.
NYK In: Carmelo Anthony, Al Harrington (UGHHH)

Den In: Wilson Chandler, Corey Brewer, Kelena Azubuike, 1st Round Pick
Den Out: Carmelo Anthony, Al Harrington

Min In: Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry, Andy Rautins, Picks.
Min Out: 1st Round Pick, Corey Brewer.

Is that the deal or am I missing something? Can someone do it in the trade checker?

[johnnywishbone]

mr wishbone, i'm curious, are you not in favor of the knicks trading for melo ?

Look it's not about what I want. Part of coming to this site is rooting for the Knicks and part of it is in an exercise in playing GM. I believe to be a successful GM you have to understand other team's motives and that's why I'm trying to understand what Denver is thinking and what Melo's value is to other teams.

But since you asked I'll answer your question. Melo is a super star but I like who is available in 2012 a lot more. Dwight Howard is my favorite non-Knick player and Deron WIlliams is right there too. Both guys would be a much bigger improvement to our team than Melo. But I think we are trapped in that if Melo wants to come here there is no way to say no. But I feel it would be way better for the Knicks for Melo to come here as a free agent. If we have Amar'e's huge max old CBA contract with Melo's that could hurt our long term flexibility. So, it is a really tough position for Donnie because his job may be contingent on landing Melo but it really might not be in the team's best interest to get it done now.

That might not be much in a way of an answer but that's all I got for you.

Carmelo Anthony in his prime AND on a long term contract (i.e. without leverage like he has now) would be more flexibility to improve this team not less. Had the playing field for Melo be fair (i.e. Melo didn't have the threat of caboshing any deal with not signing an extension) the Knicks would not have enough assets to trade for him even if they included everyone. IF things don't work out and the Knicks need to do something Carmelo Anthony woudl be a HUGE trade asset. You think the Magic or Jazz or Hornets wouldn't be interested in a Carmelo Anthony swap for any of those 3 guys if those guys want out? Do you actually believe that Gallinari and Mozgov and Fields are more enticing assets to land a different big fish?

I just think once he is here he'll be here for the long haul. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of too many instances where super stars were swapped? Especially, if we are winning which I'm sure we will be doing. We just won't be as good as a team with DWIll running the team or a front court of Amar'e & D12.

re: trading for a third super star down the line. I don't know how it's possible - maybe it is. But I thought the whole deal with Miami being able to pull it off was they all got less than max deals. Boston pulled it off I guess.

[Jitpal]

So whats the trade looking like now?

NYK Out: Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Andy Rautins, Kelena Azubuike, Wilson Chandler, Picks.
NYK In: Carmelo Anthony, Al Harrington (UGHHH)

Den In: Wilson Chandler, Corey Brewer, Kelena Azubuike, 1st Round Pick
Den Out: Carmelo Anthony, Al Harrington

Min In: Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry, Andy Rautins, Picks.
Min Out: 1st Round Pick, Corey Brewer.

Is that the deal or am I missing something? Can someone do it in the trader checker?

Minny may or may not want to include Brewer. Guys like Rautins, Walker etc. could be added to make up the difference. Al Harrington is all just speculation with guys debating (well mostly agreeing) that they would rather take back Al than include Fields. -Jitpal