All Lin talk here

[knicksnyk]

But Jeremy Lin is not a 12 minute player, not even close. So your argument falls short because teams DID gameplan against him and he did play a lot of minutes.

They gameplanned against him after linsanity. Hence the month of March. And he put up anemic shooting numbers.

He had the element of surprise during linsanity. And those statistics are skewed because of that.

That is why if you put his February vs March numbers there is a huge drop off.

element of surprise REALLY? so why is it that tyson chandler said that he talked to his maverick teammates before the dallas game and they admitted to have scouted him & planned on stopping him? stop lying christ. there was no element of surprise people caught on to him quick because of all of the hype. the lakers new about Lin they offered him a contract when he went undrafted they knew about him since harvard. please just stop it.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

He doesn't have to be a superstar, HOF'er, or even an all-star for fans to be pissed that we gave him up for free. Nor does he have to be that good in order to be the difference between beating and losing to Miami.

I think Jason Terry is a good comparison for how Lin will turn out. Jerry Terry, I believe, has never made an all-star team. But he's way too good to just let go for nothing, and he was CRUCIAL to the Mavs winning a ring.

[21shumpshumpst]

lmao your foolish. nobody says that statistics or advanced statistics are the be all and end all of the nba but to completely discount them makes you totally dumb. you use both statistics & watch the game. and your entire gripe is assist to turnover ratio. you realize that more turnovers in a younger pg indicates a higher upside?? this was proven by the sloan analytics sports conference. so i would take turnovers all day if it meant that the player would have a higher upside. mario chalmers isn't even a f*cking pg for christ sake. & you know whats even more hilarious despite lins turnovers the knicks turnover problems never really changed once he started playing. we were still turnover prone before lin & after he got injured. adding lin's turnovers really didn't affect the team in the long run but teh big difference was we were winning with him. please just stop talking you have no point.

So then Lin as a player didn't impact our turnovers either positively or negatively? His net effect was 0?

Then why on earth would I want him as my pg? Wouldn't I expect less turnovers since he is going to set up my people in spots where they can be successful?

[knicksnyk]

I don't know about max cat $$ (what do you mean by it like dwill 100million dollars money??)

yup, basically

that is impossible to predict. but lin & shump backcourt of the future would have been nice.

[21shumpshumpst]

But Jeremy Lin is not a 12 minute player, not even close. So your argument falls short because teams DID gameplan against him and he did play a lot of minutes.

They gameplanned against him after linsanity. Hence the month of March. And he put up anemic shooting numbers.

He had the element of surprise during linsanity. And those statistics are skewed because of that.

That is why if you put his February vs March numbers there is a huge drop off.

element of surprise REALLY? so why is it that tyson chandler said that he talked to his maverick teammates before the dallas game and they admitted to have scouted him & planned on stopping him? stop lying christ. there was no element of surprise people caught on to him quick because of all of the hype. the lakers new about Lin they offered him a contract when he went undrafted they knew about him since harvard. please just stop it.

Link please.

Also, this is what we call scouting.
Feb 19th Lin vs Mavs
28/13 .550

March 6 Lin vs Mavs
14/7 .308

Yeah I mean I am sure they scouted him just as well on Feb 19th as on March 6th.

[knicksnyk]

So then Lin as a player didn't impact our turnovers either positively or negatively? His net effect was 0?

Then why on earth would I want him as my pg? Wouldn't I expect less turnovers since he is going to set up my people in spots where they can be successful?

im done talking to you. if you have a problem with this thread stop clicking on very simple solution christ.

[Capn'O]

I think people are saying this to justify the move. I like Felton (and frankly, the other signings) but the single best player the Knicks had a reasonable chance of signing (never bought into Nash) was Lin. We know he worked well with Stat and Tyson and I think would have found a way with Melo. Melo plays just fine with Bron and Chris Paul. He would have handled Jeremy Lin.

I don't really get it from Houston's POV either. They might be scrappy and fun to watch but I think they're going to be a really bad team. A lot of duplication and not a lot of talent. Morey blew his big chance, imo. I don't think Dwight will bite. Maybe others will come to play with Lin? Who knows...

Actually I didn't think he really had a good chemistry with Amar'e. Maybe it was the struggles Amar'e had but the pick and roll was hardly there between the two. It was with Chandler that he had good chemistry with. While good, Chandler isn't an offensive player nor would I want him given the ball in crunch time to score points.

Lin would of given us another player who is a threat offensively but even he was with faults. He had the tendency to turn the ball over a lot and isn't really a good defender. He isn't afraid to take the big shot which is nice though. However, I notice that people like to bring up the Toronto game but we would of lost if Shumpert didn't guard Calderon at the end, he was killing us.

Not at first but look at Stat's stats in February.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... stoudemire

He didn't ever REALLY get rolling but he was very efficient during Linsanity. He ran the P'nFn'R with Chandler but got Stat the ball in other places that he could score efficiently from. Stat's numbers suffered a bit for team efficiency.

I agree with you on Lin's faults but just think he was the best player we'll realistically be able to acquire for awhile without completely gutting the team.

WTF? So now you are putting Lin in the same class as Chris Paul and Bron? The best players in the league and the best pg in the league?

ANYBODY would play just fine with those two.
Some of you are just delusional.

your overreacting. i think he is saying that if melo can play with these guys who need the ball in his hands why can't he play with lin.

Haha, Yeah exactly. Should have said Billups and AI... I was actually complimenting Melo. I think the notion that he doesn't play well with other ball dominant players is overblown. He, Stat, and Chandler aren't the best combo on offense though. Hopefully Stat's developing post game will help that.


I'm sure he will do well in Houston (stats wise) though but yeah, I doubt that team will win many games.[/quote]

[21shumpshumpst]

Well, in the games he had a really bad FG%, he was 21-24 (Chicago, Dallas, Philly Game). That's good.

And 19 assists with 7 turnovers. So the ratio is better in those games. The first Philly game he didn't do well protecting the ball while scoring inefficiently, but he improved on that.

No one is saying he is a bad free throw shooter.

He averaged 6.3 assits in those 3 games with 2.3 turnovers. He also had abysmal shooting.

Now is that a superstar pg that we are missing out?

My point with all my stats are that nothing screams 'WE MISSED OUT ON A SURE THING OMG WE ARE SCREWED"

Linsanity was well above the mean for Lin. It was his Tebow moment. He came back down to earth.

Is he an awful pg? No. But he is not this sure fire hall of famer we missed out on either.

That's not the point. But what he MIGHT be, is the only way we have a chance against the Heat compared to what Felton IS. We should have taken the risk.

But Jeremy Lin is not a 12 minute player, not even close. So your argument falls short because teams DID gameplan against him and he did play a lot of minutes.

They gameplanned against him after linsanity. Hence the month of March. And he put up anemic shooting numbers.

He had the element of surprise during linsanity. And those statistics are skewed because of that.

That is why if you put his February vs March numbers there is a huge drop off.

And yet he still had some good games sprinkled in. You can't expect all-star numbers against good teams anyway, but he fought hard and put up decent numbers in some games.

No the point is he had good games vs bad teams.

He was awful vs good teams.

I don't need him being good vs bad teams. I can get any monkey to do that. I need him to be good vs good teams which will be in the playoffs.
He has not proven he can do that at all. If he can't do it in the regular seaosn what makes you think he will do it in the playoffs.?

[knicksnyk]

Link please.

Also, this is what we call scouting.
Feb 19th Lin vs Mavs
28/13 .550

March 6 Lin vs Mavs
14/7 .308

Yeah I mean I am sure they scouted him just as well on Feb 19th as on March 6th.

google it your self...

here are some more numbers

Nets: 25 points 5 rebounds 7 assist 2 steal 1 TO
Nets: 21 points 7 rebounds 9 assist 4 steal 3 TO

Dallas: 28 points 4 rebounds 14 assist 5 steal 7 TO
Dallas: 14 points 3 rebounds 7 assist 2 steal 2 TO

Raptors: 27 points 2 rebounds 11 assist 1 steal 8 TO
Toronto: 18 points 3 rebounds 10 assists 1 steal 3 TO's

Pacers: 13 points 5 rebounds 5 assists 0 steals 3 TO's
Pacers: 19 points 7 rebounds 6 assits 1 steal 2 TO's

Sixers: 14 points 3 rebounds 7 assist 2 steal 6 TO
Philadelphia: 18 points 5 reboubnds 4 assists 1 steal 2 TO's

OMG more numbers omg

[GettinitDone]

Good God, you're going to bash a 2nd year player, a virtual rookie who really got a chance to finally play in his second year? How many games are that? 10 games? How many bad shooting games did our superstar Melo have before Linsanity? 23 games (when our record was 8-15 before Linsanity, remember the "PASS THE BALL" screams from fans??). And he's a 8th year pro!! How many bad shooting games did Melo have in his second year (2004-05)? A half season! (when he was embroiled with conflict with Larry Brown at USA Team, fight at a club, Stop Snitchin DVD, marijuana in backpack in one summer). My point is: even superstars have slumps, you're gonna get on a rapidly developing 2nd year player for having shooting slump but easily gave Melo a pass for shooting like crap in season's first 23 games, and other slumps in his career?

Nurture young players because they have a chance to improve. You're gonna get on young players who haven't even shown what he can improve?? It's unreasonable. Get on the lazy vets who are on their 5th-6th-7th year who never bother to improve, e.g. Rondo is a 6th year veteran to this day still has a shaky shot and opponents still dare him to shoot. Wanna get on someone? Get on Rondo for being a gym rat to improve all aspects of his game but his shot.

Lin's dedication and work ethic are much higher than most anyone else. I bet anything by this season he's going to be much improved with his left hand and turnovers.

You're acting like he's never gonna improve, you're acting like his weaknesses will be very hard to overcome, it's ridiculous. I bet you're the pessimist who thought Derrick Rose, Stackhouse, VC, Kobe, AI would never be a 3 point shooting threat, after you'd seen how terrible they were with their outside shooting in their rookie years. Weaknesses are easy to overcome and even turned into strength if you have smarts, dedication and work ethic. For example, give yourself a day and work extensively on your weak hand and I guarantee by the end of the day you're gonna feel a lot better about your weak hand (you're gonna have quicker reaction and stronger anticipation that you didn't have before with the weak hand). Lin not only worked on his left hand for 1 day, he did it every day for this off-season.

The bashing on Lin has been in a way contradictory. They're saying we shouldn't label him a star based on part of the 25 games, but they're saying Lin is a scrub also based on other part of those very same 25 games.

[Fury]

He was fine against Chicago.
He was solid against San Antonio.
He killed the Lakers (BUT THAT DONT COUNT)
Killed the Mavs, and had a mediocre game the 2nd time.
He had 2 good games against the Pacers.

Why the **** is last year his ceiling? ITS HIS 2ND SEASON IN THE LEAGUE AND THE FIRST HE'S HAD MAJOR MINUTES PLAYING PG. Why doesn't he get the same benefit of the doubt that Shump has to improve? Could Lin not improve? It's ridiculous.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Link please.

Also, this is what we call scouting.
Feb 19th Lin vs Mavs
28/13 .550

March 6 Lin vs Mavs
14/7 .308

Yeah I mean I am sure they scouted him just as well on Feb 19th as on March 6th.

What's your point? That because the league has 'figured Lin out,' he will never improve on the numbers he put up in March?

[Fury]

Lin can't adjust. It's over.

Holy **** Shump is dumb.

Look up rookie seasons for superstars, man.

[knicksnyk]

No the point is he had good games vs bad teams.

He was awful vs good teams.

I don't need him being good vs bad teams. I can get any monkey to do that. I need him to be good vs good teams which will be in the playoffs.
He has not proven he can do that at all. If he can't do it in the regular seaosn what makes you think he will do it in the playoffs.?

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

I would take this anyday from a 24 year old pg getting his first chance at starters minutes who was in his sophmore year

[21shumpshumpst]

So then Lin as a player didn't impact our turnovers either positively or negatively? His net effect was 0?

Then why on earth would I want him as my pg? Wouldn't I expect less turnovers since he is going to set up my people in spots where they can be successful?

im done talking to you. if you have a problem with this thread stop clicking on very simple solution christ.

You have brought nothing to the conversation other than yayy advanced stats and metrics.
The only ACTUAL stats you put up backed up my point.

You also keep making assumptions on what lin is and what lin will be with NOTHING to back you up other than your fancy per 36.

When I call you out on something now you are crying about it because you have no comeback. Don't blame me. I just post the ACTUAL stats. You might want to try that sometime.

[Fury]

No the point is he had good games vs bad teams.

He was awful vs good teams.

I don't need him being good vs bad teams. I can get any monkey to do that. I need him to be good vs good teams which will be in the playoffs.
He has not proven he can do that at all. If he can't do it in the regular seaosn what makes you think he will do it in the playoffs.?

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

I would take this anyday from a 24 year old pg getting his first chance at starters minutes who was in his sophmore year

lol insane that this isn't good enough for him. What kind of standards does shumpert have?

[21shumpshumpst]

No the point is he had good games vs bad teams.

He was awful vs good teams.

I don't need him being good vs bad teams. I can get any monkey to do that. I need him to be good vs good teams which will be in the playoffs.
He has not proven he can do that at all. If he can't do it in the regular seaosn what makes you think he will do it in the playoffs.?

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

I would take this anyday from a 24 year old pg getting his first chance at starters minutes who was in his sophmore year

He scored on bad percentages. He had a bad assist to TO ratio.

He did get 2 steals which is good and he had a good ft%. Plus those numbers are skewed by two games during linsanity. The one vs lakers and the one vs the mavs. Take those out and what do you get?

[knicksnyk]

He was fine against Chicago.
He was solid against San Antonio.
He killed the Lakers (BUT THAT DONT COUNT)
Killed the Mavs, and had a mediocre game the 2nd time.
He had 2 good games against the Pacers.

Why the **** is last year his ceiling? ITS HIS 2ND SEASON IN THE LEAGUE AND THE FIRST HE'S HAD MAJOR MINUTES PLAYING PG. Why doesn't he get the same benefit of the doubt that Shump has to improve? Could Lin not improve? It's ridiculous.

lmao i sware to god it has to come down to race. it has to. i have never seen something like this before. kyrie irving ricky rubio all get the benefit of the doubt.

[21shumpshumpst]

No the point is he had good games vs bad teams.

He was awful vs good teams.

I don't need him being good vs bad teams. I can get any monkey to do that. I need him to be good vs good teams which will be in the playoffs.
He has not proven he can do that at all. If he can't do it in the regular seaosn what makes you think he will do it in the playoffs.?

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

I would take this anyday from a 24 year old pg getting his first chance at starters minutes who was in his sophmore year

lol insane that this isn't good enough for him. What kind of standards does shumpert have?

The standards you guys have put on him. The OMG IF HE WAS HERE WE WOULD HAVE A SHOT AT WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP standard.

Those numbers are anything but that.

[Fury]

No the point is he had good games vs bad teams.

He was awful vs good teams.

I don't need him being good vs bad teams. I can get any monkey to do that. I need him to be good vs good teams which will be in the playoffs.
He has not proven he can do that at all. If he can't do it in the regular seaosn what makes you think he will do it in the playoffs.?

In 13 games against above-.500 teams last season (Jazz 36-30, Lakers 41-25, Mavs 36-30, Hawks 40-26, Miami 46-20, Celtics 39-27, Spurs 50-16, 76ers 35-31, Bulls 50-16, Pacers 42-24, combined record 415-245), Lin in 35 mpg averaged 18.9 points, 6.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 4.5 turnovers, on 42.3% fg, 35.1% 3pt, and 83.0% ft.

I would take this anyday from a 24 year old pg getting his first chance at starters minutes who was in his sophmore year

He scored on bad percentages. He had a bad assist to TO ratio.

He did get 2 steals which is good and he had a good ft%. Plus those numbers are skewed by two games during linsanity. The one vs lakers and the one vs the mavs. Take those out and what do you get?

If you take out his two best, you have to take out his two worst. Otherwise you're just being unfair.