Around the nba part 7

[Quick Kick]

Melo at 23 vs Harden at 23

was there really THAT much of a difference to "lol" @ it?? Both were volume shooters, both scored alot of points, both had bad shooting %'s, but the most important thing is they BOTH led their teams to the playoffs and were considered elite players. That's all I'm saying. you want instant gratification at this point for a 23 year old player? You know good and well for the next 5-10 years, Harden is going to be in the MVP discussion and if they get Howard in the offseason, hell, he could win it next year.

[Quick Kick]

Harden is not a superstar.

And he's selfish. Where's his passing?

who is he going to pass to?? Lin blows, Parsons is a 4th option kind of guy, Asik couldn't catch a pass if his manhood depended on it. This is is crazy. KG you're better than this.

I dare you....no, I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU to start a thread on the GB declaring Harden aint a superstar. Let's see how many people agree with that sentiment.

[Bravery]

Just how bad is the Spurs injury report? To be honest, I haven't checked out their team for nearly a month.

[K_ick_God]

Harden looks like the guy who was a varsity bench player, then one day he scrimmages with the junior varsity, proceeds to hog all the shots and thinks he's cool throwing up wild junk, all the while missing a ton and not that impressive.

[Bravery]

Harden looks like the guy who was a varsity bench player, then one day he scrimmages with the junior varsity, proceeds to hog all the shots and thinks he's cool throwing up wild junk, all the while missing a ton and not that impressive.

He's a very eccentric scorer, but when he drives to the rim he's damn near unstoppable + FTs which typically make up 7-9 pts of his overall PPG. Throw in his PER at 23.55, 2nd only to Wade and that why he is who he is. Problem is the majority of his shots on the perimeter are usually near the center area without much variation and ISO, meaning he gets too comfortable with his shot, despite how awful those looks are. Also he gives it up in the most inopportune times and that gives his teammates very few seconds to get a shot off effectively.

Month of March he's shot .389, yet the month before he was averaging .529 in FG%. His 3 pt shooting is exactly just as bewildering: .272 in Jan but .422 in Mar. Very eccentric, but if he landed on my team one day, I wouldn't give him the boot just because he's young and already has a great PER. You just need an additional facilitator next to him (Lin or anyone else), a F/C who can set good picks and a better coach (and let's be honest, McHale's play variety is terrible.)

[GettinitDone]

At this point, Harden is not a superstar YET. He's a legitimate All Star which is a great improvement from his 6th man role last year. He can be a superstar. But not yet, simply because he dominates the ball too much and aside of his ability to go to the line, he is simply a low percentage, inefficient shooter. When his shot is falling, he can put up 45 pts without sweat, but the key word here is "when", which frequency is less often than frequency of his cold shooting nights.

His ball dominance and passes at the last seconds of a shot clock really disrupt his teammates' rhythm (Lin, Parsons). He's pretty much the ONLY reason the Rockets' ball movement is stagnant. Much of this Lakers game, he demands the ball as soon as the Rockets got a defensive rebound, as if he was a point guard. This pretty much rendered Lin into a corner spot up shooter.

Much of Rockets' wins and success this season came when the ball movement/ flow was smooth, not stopped at the hands of Harden. He should remember he was one of the most efficient/ feared players when he was still playing for Thunder for his ability to be very effective/ explosive in the Thunder's ball movement offense. He didn't hog the ball anywhere near like this. He received kickout passes from Westbrook and KD and was so effective, he should continue doing that/ receiving passes instead of hogging the ball. Basically let Lin be the main distributor and promote ball flow. Smh.

Also, last point is Asik can catch passes. Anyone who says he has stone hands just doesn't observe his game properly. He just is not a high flyer who catches lobs, just a normal pick and roll passes and he can finish around the rim with dunks or even reverse layups.


That Parsons' 3 that sent the game into OT was so flat, I thought he was passing it, or gonna be an airball for sure. Lin's shot, in contrast, is Dirk's rainbow shot which arc is so high. lol

[spre8well]

If you follow the Rockets at all this season, you'll know what happen in the HOU vs LAL game has been going on all season. Harden plays PG 50% of the time (he demands it, yet he's terrible at it). Lin plays well and get benched; coach put him back when he's cold (ever heard of momentum?) offense becomes stagnant and opponents take lead as soon as Lin leaves the floor (80% of the time). Rockets regain the lead when Lin is back in the game (when he's allowed to play the PG position lol). Don't think this team would have made the playoff without Lin constantly cleaning off the mess by mcFail & Harden. Lin is starting to get more minutes as of late, but what's the point if he's not allowed to play the point (where he excel at?) It's amazing Lin is averaging 18&7 in April playing under these condition; he is easily a 20&10 player with a competent coach.

If you follow the Rockets you'll also know that Harden is no superstar lol. He's stats are padded mostly in garbage time, low FG%, lazy doesn't play D, no clutch gene, 0% leadership traits, selfish hero-baller..the list goes on. Harden can't lead this team to win against some of the worst teams in the league..SUNS (last game), and Kobe-less Lakers this time.. wtf, even LIn lead the NYK bench squad to win against Kobe&Lakers (+38pts).

[Leaguepass]

Lin : 13points/6assists/3rebounds on 44% from the field, 34% from 3 and 79% FT
Felton : 14points/6assits/3rebounds on 43% from the field 36% from 3 and 79% FT

Funny how much these two got compaired and discussed but at the end of the day their production is almost identical.

Lin PER:14.7
Felton PER: 13.8

[Rasho Brezec]

what is wrong with yall? Harden is 23! You guys give 100,00 concessions and put up charts and graphs to prove Lin will become the Asian Steve Nash at the age of 25, but here is Harden, a proven MVP candidate who has off nights sometimes, and now he's "overrated"? Come on, son.

Look at what y'all brought me to. I have to agree with GoodAssGame.

[Rasho Brezec]

I dont care about his game log...yall are lobbing the same exact criticisms Melo received early in his career, and look at him now. Melo used to shoot horribly his first couple years but was still as impactful of a player he could be. Harden is a great, elite player, and will only get better. We dont have to worry about "upside" and "potential" with him...he IS a superstar, point blank. The only question is how great will he be.

Melo was a much better scorer, IMO, in that he didn't rely on the whistle, but actually drove the ball to score. Harden gets bailed out a lot, but as you can see in playoff like games where the game slows down and defenses get more stingy, he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt nearly as much. Thus, all of those no-calls when he barreled towards the rim.

Getting to the FT line is a skill, not something that should count against the player. This is ridiculous.

[GettinitDone]

Lin : 13points/6assists/3rebounds on 44% from the field, 34% from 3 and 79% FT
Felton : 14points/6assits/3rebounds on 43% from the field 36% from 3 and 79% FT

Funny how much these two got compaired and discussed but at the end of the day their production is almost identical.

Lin PER:14.7
Felton PER: 13.8

How are they identical?

Lin: 107 games started
Felton: 547 games started

Big difference

[Rasho Brezec]

lol at even putting harden in the same breath as melo offensively.

no.. just.. no

Harden vs Melo at age 23: Harden more efficient, smaller usage rate, better all-around numbers, bigger winshare.

Harden vs Melo in their 4th season: Harden more efficient, smaller usage rate, better all-around numbers, bigger winshare.

Let's not do revisionist history just because one player is on the Knicks and the other one isn't.

[Pharmcat]

LAL is gonna get smashed in the POs

[j4remi]

lol at even putting harden in the same breath as melo offensively.

no.. just.. no

Harden vs Melo at age 23: Harden more efficient, smaller usage rate, better all-around numbers, bigger winshare.

Harden vs Melo in their 4th season: Harden more efficient, smaller usage rate, better all-around numbers, bigger winshare.

Let's not do revisionist history just because one player is on the Knicks and the other one isn't.

Melo's numbers at 23
FG% 49, 3pFG% 35, 25.7 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 3.4 APG 3.2 TO

Harden numbers
FG% 44, 3pFG% 37, 24.4 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 5.5 APG 3.8 TO

Tyson Chandler had more WS than Melo most of this season (not sure if that changed after Tyson left with injury) so I wouldn't put much weight in that. They were comparably effective, but I'd certainly give Melo the edge as a scorer (even eFG% he has a slight edge). There's no revision in saying that Melo was better at 23.

To be fair, at 24 Melo had his least efficient season.

[Rasho Brezec]

He said Harden shouldn't be put in the same breath as Melo offensively. Seeing as how, at age 23, Harden scored 0.2 points more on 2.1 FGA less and at the meantime used up 1.2% less team plays and produced 7 more points per 100 possesions, I'd say Harden more than deserves to be put ahead or at the very least, be compared to Melo.

[Tron Carter]

He said Harden shouldn't be put in the same breath as Melo offensively. Seeing as how, at age 23, Harden scored 0.2 points more on 2.1 FGA less and at the meantime used up 1.2% less team plays and produced 7 more points per 100 possesions, I'd say Harden more than deserves to be put ahead or at the very least, be compared to Melo.

at this point in their careers absolutely not

[Rasho Brezec]

Which is completely irrelevant because they were talking about their performances at the same point in their careers.

[Tron Carter]

Which is completely irrelevant because they were talking about their performances at the same point in their careers.

they as in who?

i'm talking about the people that want to crown harden as a superstar, say he's a top 5 player, and put him above melo TODAY.

[j4remi]

He said Harden shouldn't be put in the same breath as Melo offensively. Seeing as how, at age 23, Harden scored 0.2 points more on 2.1 FGA less and at the meantime used up 1.2% less team plays and produced 7 more points per 100 possesions, I'd say Harden more than deserves to be put ahead or at the very least, be compared to Melo.

Comparable, sure, I don't think there's a definite edge for either.

My case for Melo getting the edge:

From age 19 to 23 Melo put up
24.4 pts on 19 attempts at a 46% FG

With Harden, you literally have to single this season out in a high octane offense just to get comparable production. Even singling out the years, Melo did more offensively imo when you include his offensive boards and fewer TO's (at age 23)...and he has a minor edge in eFG%. I put a lot of weight on that 44% from the field which is pretty much the norm for Harden. Majority of people penalize Melo for his FG% which hung around 45 for the most part, but he was absolutely killing it from 21-23 (which not unexpectedly were some of his healthiest). Harden makes his case at the line and from three, but I don't think it's a case where he's clearly ahead...they're comparable and I give a slight edge to Melo. Harden and Melo are definitely in the same breath though.

[knicks94]

I see the Brookln Nets winning the NBA championship next season once they sign Phil Jackson.