Woj: Knicks trade for Alec Burks and Bojan Bogdanovich

[Chanel Bomber]

Yet MJ > LeBron

Make it make sense

[Iron Mantis]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

[cgf]

Bogs is going to pay big dividends. Burks, it depends on if Thibs has him pretending to be Kobe or doing what he's actually good at as an OFF THE BALL shooter who can attack close outs. I'm not sure Thibs has it in him to limit Burks though

Burks would be more effective off the ball, but he is one of our top 4 creators…and with our 2nd best creator still injured, that makes MJ one of our top 3 creators atm. So I’m not sure Thibs had the option of limiting Burks, especially in that last game when Bojan joined Julius in streetclothes.

When we’re healthy, Burks role should be a lot more limited…playing off of Bojan or Julius when Brunson rest, and playing off of Brundle when he closes…but with our injuries we’ve needed Burks to fill a bigger role.

[JayTWill]

Bogs is going to pay big dividends. Burks, it depends on if Thibs has him pretending to be Kobe or doing what he's actually good at as an OFF THE BALL shooter who can attack close outs. I'm not sure Thibs has it in him to limit Burks though

Burks would be more effective off the ball, but he is one of our top 4 creators…and with our 2nd best creator still injured, that makes MJ one of our top 3 creators atm. So I’m not sure Thibs had the option of limiting Burks, especially in that last game when Bojan joined Julius in streetclothes.

When we’re healthy, Burks role should be a lot more limited…playing off of Bojan or Julius when Brunson rest, and playing off of Brundle when he closes…but with our injuries we’ve needed Burks to fill a bigger role.

Hopefully the new acquisitions will look better in smaller roles if the team is ever healthy but it does not solve the issue of the lack of point guard skills in the second unit. Burks and Bojan both provide options as guys who can create something out of nothing in Thibs limited offense but who on the team can we trust to initiate the offense under pressure besides Brunson? Can either of them handle a full court press? McBride and IQ struggled mightily just setting up the offense with Brunson off the floor in last year's playoffs.

Both Burks and Bojan are crafty scorers but my biggest issue with the bench was how long McBride took to get the team into it's offense forcing he or someone else to take difficult shots late in the shot clock. Even if Randle plays with the second unit he struggles as a primary offensive initiator and he needs as much time on the clock as possible when he is looking to score. It just seems like we have more options to throw up contested shots late in the shot clock now but no one to really organize the offense still. It may not matter since Thibs doesn't really have an offense.

[TrueWarrior]

We have to wait until the team gets their guys back before we really judge this trade, but the issue will still be that Burks was mainly brought in to play some backup PG.

Burks should never ever play PG. He should strictly be a backup scoring/shooting wing. In that role he can be okay.

The problem is Deuce, if he even ends up playing when we’re 100%, is also more of a SG than a PG. So even if our squad is healthy Burks will still be tasked with too much playmaking/PG duties.

When Burks played with Rose and Quickley he was solid. The bad memories come from when he started at PG to end 2022.

[dakomish23]

Because of the injuries.

The Knicks had a nice January, mostly, and got everyone's hopes up. Now it's over. Time to look forward to next year. The season is dead, yet not everyone realizes it yet.

Other than trolling, why? Everyone is supposedly coming back and we’re not at much risk of falling out of playoffs. Do you have some medical info the rest of us don’t or is this just schtick?

The medical info seemed to state for both Randle and OG at LEAST 5 weeks.

Knicks will be fighting for 8th place by the time these guys return, and they won't be 100% - well, they'll be healthy, but they'll need more time to get into game shape and the flow.

Knicks are getting bounced in the first round.

They had momentum, they had something going on, it's over.

I'm not trolling.

Everyone is running on hope. That's for suckers.

Buzz not having it

[cgf]

Bogs is going to pay big dividends. Burks, it depends on if Thibs has him pretending to be Kobe or doing what he's actually good at as an OFF THE BALL shooter who can attack close outs. I'm not sure Thibs has it in him to limit Burks though

Burks would be more effective off the ball, but he is one of our top 4 creators…and with our 2nd best creator still injured, that makes MJ one of our top 3 creators atm. So I’m not sure Thibs had the option of limiting Burks, especially in that last game when Bojan joined Julius in streetclothes.

When we’re healthy, Burks role should be a lot more limited…playing off of Bojan or Julius when Brunson rest, and playing off of Brundle when he closes…but with our injuries we’ve needed Burks to fill a bigger role.

Hopefully the new acquisitions will look better in smaller roles if the team is ever healthy but it does not solve the issue of the lack of point guard skills in the second unit. Burks and Bojan both provide options as guys who can create something out of nothing in Thibs limited offense but who on the team can we trust to initiate the offense under pressure besides Brunson? Can either of them handle a full court press? McBride and IQ struggled mightily just setting up the offense with Brunson off the floor in last year's playoffs.

Both Burks and Bojan are crafty scorers but my biggest issue with the bench was how long McBride took to get the team into it's offense forcing he or someone else to take difficult shots late in the shot clock. Even if Randle plays with the second unit he struggles as a primary offensive initiator and he needs as much time on the clock as possible when he is looking to score. It just seems like we have more options to throw up contested shots late in the shot clock now but no one to really organize the offense still. It may not matter since Thibs doesn't really have an offense.

I hear you, part of why I was trying to talk a Caruso trade into happening was exactly that he does have the PG skills to get us up the court & into our offense, even under pressure.

What I think minimizes some of this concern is just how many minutes we're really talking about. Last season Brunson averaged 35.0mpg in the regular season and 40.3mpg in the playoffs, for a 5.3mpg increase. This season Brunson is at 35.9mpg in the regular season, so a 5.3mpg increase would bring him up to 41.2mpg.

That would leave us with just 6.8mpg non-Brunson minutes, for McBride, Burks, & Randle to carry us through.

[KnixinSix]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

Nah they are not at all disappointing. They were brought in as role players yet they were carrying more than they were supposed to due to all the injuries. When guys come back the effectiveness of their fit will be much more evident.

[Iron Mantis]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

Nah they are not at all disappointing. They were brought in as role players yet they were carrying more than they were supposed to due to all the injuries. When guys come back the effectiveness of their fit will be much more evident.

Hope so.

Pre-trade deadline Knicks looked like east favorites. If a non-star trade was made, going for an impactful 2-way player was the way to go.

The roster had a strong identity, great chemistry, and seemed more balanced ...simply needed to get healthy again.

The rotation is now worse defensively, much older, slower, less athletic.

Don't like the idea of having to play OG for 45 a night to cover for Boj and Burks inability to defend. He will quickly be injured again.

[WargamesX]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

I think Bojan is worth a 1st in a vacuum and is the asset they are looking to trade. Burks is probably going to be allowed to walk this summer for cap reason. I thought he was go to try and help out as people recover but so far not so good.

Losing Grimes was but if they can take Bojan and draft picks and trade for a better pieces it might eventually be worth it.

[KnixinSix]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

Nah they are not at all disappointing. They were brought in as role players yet they were carrying more than they were supposed to due to all the injuries. When guys come back the effectiveness of their fit will be much more evident.

Hope so.

Pre-trade deadline Knicks looked like east favorites. If a non-star trade was made, going for an impactful 2-way player was the way to go.

The roster had a strong identity, great chemistry, and seemed more balanced ...simply needed to get healthy again.

The rotation is now worse defensively, much older, slower, less athletic.

Don't like the idea of having to play OG for 45 a night to cover for Boj and Burks inability to defend. He will quickly be injured again.

OG as we know is arguably the best most versatile defender in the entire NBA.

Achiuwa is quickly developing into a 2 way PF and backup Center type here. His defense is excellent. This is a BIG X factor now as we have an additional player who can play lock down defense in the front court.

Yes Grimes was a bit of a loss but only defensively. With the emergence of DDV his utility is greatly diminished anyways (though I acknowledge he was the better defender). Also lets not forget if our backcourt is not playing well enough defensively vs certain matchups we still have McBride to come in to play back there when necessary for longer minutes.

Our main issue after the OG trade was 2 things. Bench scoring depth and better ball handling. We got both.

Burks in a more back up role as a ball handler should be fine and is a no doubt more dynamic offensive player than Grimes.

Bogs can play 2 to 4 in different lineups when counterbalanced with Defenders around him and brings spacing and amazing 3 ball and dynamic complementary scoring to the lineup.

The big key is getting healthy because (in theory at least) this is a BETTER team than the 14-2 one after the OG trade.

[KnixinSix]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

I think Bojan is worth a 1st in a vacuum and is the asset they are looking to trade. Burks is probably going to be allowed to walk this summer for cap reason. I thought he was go to try and help out as people recover but so far not so good.

Losing Grimes was but if they can take Bojan and draft picks and trade for a better pieces it might eventually be worth it.

Right or wrong, our FO obviously prioritized not losing too many first round picks. Atlanta probably held their ground about insisting for a 2nd FRP if they were to trade DJM and obviously they didn't change their mind. I wonder if they offered anything more than EF Grimes and a single FRP. Did we offer the 2 2nds we gave Detroit too?

We know that LA will now have 3 tradeable FRPs to offer in the offseason. And they will likely get DJM if they want him (or maybe go after Mitchell).

[KnixinSix]

We have to wait until the team gets their guys back before we really judge this trade, but the issue will still be that Burks was mainly brought in to play some backup PG.

Burks should never ever play PG. He should strictly be a backup scoring/shooting wing. In that role he can be okay.

The problem is Deuce, if he even ends up playing when we’re 100%, is also more of a SG than a PG. So even if our squad is healthy Burks will still be tasked with too much playmaking/PG duties.

When Burks played with Rose and Quickley he was solid. The bad memories come from when he started at PG to end 2022.

Is he an ideal back up ballhandler? No. However as a backup ballhandler (not primary) he is still better than anyone on the roster not named Brunson. He will allow also for Brunson in spots to play off-ball saving some wear and tear on him too.

[3toheadmelo]

Getting bojan was fine. Bringing Burks back seemed unnecessary

[Iron Mantis]

Nah they are not at all disappointing. They were brought in as role players yet they were carrying more than they were supposed to due to all the injuries. When guys come back the effectiveness of their fit will be much more evident.

Hope so.

Pre-trade deadline Knicks looked like east favorites. If a non-star trade was made, going for an impactful 2-way player was the way to go.

The roster had a strong identity, great chemistry, and seemed more balanced ...simply needed to get healthy again.

The rotation is now worse defensively, much older, slower, less athletic.

Don't like the idea of having to play OG for 45 a night to cover for Boj and Burks inability to defend. He will quickly be injured again.

OG as we know is arguably the best most versatile defender in the entire NBA.

Achiuwa is quickly developing into a 2 way PF and backup Center type here. His defense is excellent. This is a BIG X factor now as we have an additional player who can play lock down defense in the front court.

Yes Grimes was a bit of a loss but only defensively. With the emergence of DDV his utility is greatly diminished anyways (though I acknowledge he was the better defender). Also lets not forget if our backcourt is not playing well enough defensively vs certain matchups we still have McBride to come in to play back there when necessary for longer minutes.

Our main issue after the OG trade was 2 things. Bench scoring depth and better ball handling. We got both.

Burks in a more back up role as a ball handler should be fine and is a no doubt more dynamic offensive player than Grimes.

Bogs can play 2 to 4 in different lineups when counterbalanced with Defenders around him and brings spacing and amazing 3 ball and dynamic complementary scoring to the lineup.

The big key is getting healthy because (in theory at least) this is a BETTER team than the 14-2 one after the OG trade.

Politics may force Precious out of the rotation for Bojan Fournier.

There's not many minutes behind Randle and OG. If it's as you say, then Precious has earned his spot in the rotation....And Josh HAS to get his 30 minutes.

Where's Bojs minutes coming from?

Boj at the 2 is worse than Fournier.

This reeks of a Thibs' pet trade: Grimes for Burks. Burks will back up the SG and PG positions and get heavy minutes.

And if Boj gets Fournied by Thibs, it just makes this trade an utter disaster.

[KnixinSix]

Hope so.

Pre-trade deadline Knicks looked like east favorites. If a non-star trade was made, going for an impactful 2-way player was the way to go.

The roster had a strong identity, great chemistry, and seemed more balanced ...simply needed to get healthy again.

The rotation is now worse defensively, much older, slower, less athletic.

Don't like the idea of having to play OG for 45 a night to cover for Boj and Burks inability to defend. He will quickly be injured again.

OG as we know is arguably the best most versatile defender in the entire NBA.

Achiuwa is quickly developing into a 2 way PF and backup Center type here. His defense is excellent. This is a BIG X factor now as we have an additional player who can play lock down defense in the front court.

Yes Grimes was a bit of a loss but only defensively. With the emergence of DDV his utility is greatly diminished anyways (though I acknowledge he was the better defender). Also lets not forget if our backcourt is not playing well enough defensively vs certain matchups we still have McBride to come in to play back there when necessary for longer minutes.

Our main issue after the OG trade was 2 things. Bench scoring depth and better ball handling. We got both.

Burks in a more back up role as a ball handler should be fine and is a no doubt more dynamic offensive player than Grimes.

Bogs can play 2 to 4 in different lineups when counterbalanced with Defenders around him and brings spacing and amazing 3 ball and dynamic complementary scoring to the lineup.

The big key is getting healthy because (in theory at least) this is a BETTER team than the 14-2 one after the OG trade.

Politics may force Precious out of the rotation for Bojan Fournier.

There's not many minutes behind Randle and OG. If it's as you say, then Precious has earned his spot in the rotation....And Josh HAS to get his 30 minutes.

Where's Bojs minutes coming from?

Boj at the 2 is worse than Fournier.

This reeks of a Thibs' pet trade: Grimes for Burks. Burks will back up the SG and PG positions and get heavy minutes.

And if Boj gets Fournied by Thibs, it just makes this trade an utter disaster.

Utter disaster is way too strong a take bro.

We essentially gave up a guy whos offensive development curve was simply not looking very good. Could he develop more an offensive game? Possibly. But the guy was starting to look like the NBA version of Kaapo Kakko for the Rangers.

Truthfully I don't think Grimes ever becomes more than a Bruce Brown type. I don't think we gave up the next Latrell Spreewell here.

Boj and Burks are not going to get major minutes but will play complementary scoring roles for us....

Regular season approx minutes before Mitch returns....

I-Hart (27), Achiwa (21)
Randle (30), Bojan (8), Hart(10)
OG(30), Bojan(10), Hart (8)
DDV(30), Burks (10) , Hart(5), Bojan(3)
Brunson(32), Burks (8), McBride(8)

This is Brunson's team and the Nova Boys are kind of its identity. Hart has been pretty bad offensively though. I think 4 guys are considered our greatest core. Brunson, Randle, OG, and then DDV who has been amazing since getting more minutes. These 4 get 30 minutes. Hart with all the additions and DDVs emergence becomes more a 23-25 minute guy. Bojan between 3 spots gets like 20-22 minutes and Burks like 18-20.

[Juco24]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

Nah they are not at all disappointing. They were brought in as role players yet they were carrying more than they were supposed to due to all the injuries. When guys come back the effectiveness of their fit will be much more evident.

It's amazing to me that more don't see this... I don't know of any team that could be without their entire starting fc. One in which is an all-star. Then be without their backup C, who was balling!! Then have the starting bc miss time as well! I honestly can't see us winning the games we lost WITH Grimes and Fournier.

Brendan Brown said it best... the fans don't realize yet what we have and it's up to Thibs to get the best out of the rotation. Until the guys come back, just impossible to say it's a failure.

I can't think of ANY team that wouldn't struggle without their starting fc.

[stuporman]

It has nothing to do with the Knicks missing Randle, OG, iHart and Mitch....it's that they now don't have Grimes, that's the problem...

[JayTWill]

Early returns are very disappointing.

Went after so-so players who can't defend and whose offensive capabilities could dive off of a cliff at any moment because of their age.

At least the Knicks still have all their first rounders. Nevertheless now they don't have any intriguing young talent that could make their offer better than the next teams' offer.

I think Bojan is worth a 1st in a vacuum and is the asset they are looking to trade. Burks is probably going to be allowed to walk this summer for cap reason. I thought he was go to try and help out as people recover but so far not so good.

Losing Grimes was but if they can take Bojan and draft picks and trade for a better pieces it might eventually be worth it.

I can see a scenario where the Knicks made this trade to bring in more depth, add more win now players and Bogey is used as valuable trade filler for a bigger piece but I just feel like they miscalculated trying to do too many things at once.

The added depth was negated by Thibs essentially replacing McBride with Burks in the first game and still playing DDV 40+ minutes until he was hurt.

The win now part is negated by all the injuries the Knicks have making it difficult for the team to actually win now. The Knicks would somehow have to get healthy, stay healthy and develop chemistry and rhythm with 2 players that don't exactly fit what was making the team so successful after the OG trade.

As far as Bojan being a valuable trade filler for next season I just don't see it. He would have to play extremely well in New York with a new team in a constantly adjusting role as guys get healthy and the lineup changes. And even if he did play well I just can't see a team giving real value for a declining 35 year old expiring who has missed a lot of time over the last year with calf and achilles injuries and is a poor defensive player. I think he will just be another empty expiring similar to Fournier.

I wish they had chosen to do 1 or 2 things really well instead of 3 or 4 things with limited impact especially if they were sending away Grimes.

[stuporman]

Can we blame Deuce for the Knicks back court problems because he actually looked really good for a short time and fooled the knicks FO into thinking they can live without Grimes then as soon as he was traded Deuce looked like a....deuce.