Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

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As a rookie, Frank was a top 30 defender in the NBA, regardless of position, according to 538's new DRAYMOND defensive ranking.

If Fiz ever gives the kid a consistent role, we would potentially have two of the top defenders in the NBA (Mitch top 5 in DRAYMOND) on our team.

I think I'd need to dig into Nate's figures more than I will actually get around to in order to understand what that ranking is really evaluating.

From the sound-bites it appears as if it is mostly centers being given the highest rankings. I would want to see how the team defense plays into the figures - and how the ranking copes with combos - particularly 1-5 combos.

(I don't care what anyone thinks about was/is KP a 4 or a 5 - it's a meaningless distinction overall - for this purpose he's mainly a rim protecting 5 on defense - and his numbers are probably depressed by him defending 4s on the perimeter whilst KoQ/Kanter/Willi played "C").

One thing is for sure: KP comes out spectacularly in the DRAYMOND ("take that for stats" - oh wait, no, "off with his head", said the Perry queen) and, of course, units with Frank and KP come out highly ranked by other metrics. On the other hand, Kanter and Frank units come out pretty meh (well below Mitch-Frank units, although sample size is a problem, particularly for the latter). And you know what? That's not so amazing.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

As a rookie, Frank was a top 30 defender in the NBA, regardless of position, according to 538's new DRAYMOND defensive ranking.

If Fiz ever gives the kid a consistent role, we would potentially have two of the top defenders in the NBA (Mitch top 5 in DRAYMOND) on our team.

I think I'd need to dig into Nate's figures more than I will actually get around to in order to understand what that ranking is really evaluating.

From the sound-bites it appears as if it is mostly centers being given the highest rankings. I would want to see how the team defense plays into the figures - and how the ranking copes with combos - particularly 1-5 combos.

(I don't care what anyone thinks about was/is KP a 4 or a 5 - it's a meaningless distinction overall - for this purpose he's mainly a rim protecting 5 on defense - and his numbers are probably depressed by him defending 4s on the perimeter whilst KoQ/Kanter/Willi played "C").

One thing is for sure: KP comes out spectacularly in the DRAYMOND ("take that for stats" - oh wait, no, "off with his head", said the Perry queen) and, of course, units with Frank and KP come out highly ranked by other metrics. On the other hand, Kanter and Frank units come out pretty meh (well below Mitch-Frank units, although sample size is a problem, particularly for the latter). And you know what? That's not so amazing.

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Read on Twitter

As a rookie, Frank was a top 30 defender in the NBA, regardless of position, according to 538's new DRAYMOND defensive ranking.

If Fiz ever gives the kid a consistent role, we would potentially have two of the top defenders in the NBA (Mitch top 5 in DRAYMOND) on our team.

I think I'd need to dig into Nate's figures more than I will actually get around to in order to understand what that ranking is really evaluating.

From the sound-bites it appears as if it is mostly centers being given the highest rankings. I would want to see how the team defense plays into the figures - and how the ranking copes with combos - particularly 1-5 combos.

(I don't care what anyone thinks about was/is KP a 4 or a 5 - it's a meaningless distinction overall - for this purpose he's mainly a rim protecting 5 on defense - and his numbers are probably depressed by him defending 4s on the perimeter whilst KoQ/Kanter/Willi played "C").

One thing is for sure: KP comes out spectacularly in the DRAYMOND ("take that for stats" - oh wait, no, "off with his head", said the Perry queen) and, of course, units with Frank and KP come out highly ranked by other metrics. On the other hand, Kanter and Frank units come out pretty meh (well below Mitch-Frank units, although sample size is a problem, particularly for the latter). And you know what? That's not so amazing.

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

The funny thing is that we actually all know that - since we watched the games - (at least amongst bigs) that's true. He altered sooooo many shots. People are in denial about all of this.

[Polk377]

I think I'd need to dig into Nate's figures more than I will actually get around to in order to understand what that ranking is really evaluating.

From the sound-bites it appears as if it is mostly centers being given the highest rankings. I would want to see how the team defense plays into the figures - and how the ranking copes with combos - particularly 1-5 combos.

(I don't care what anyone thinks about was/is KP a 4 or a 5 - it's a meaningless distinction overall - for this purpose he's mainly a rim protecting 5 on defense - and his numbers are probably depressed by him defending 4s on the perimeter whilst KoQ/Kanter/Willi played "C").

One thing is for sure: KP comes out spectacularly in the DRAYMOND ("take that for stats" - oh wait, no, "off with his head", said the Perry queen) and, of course, units with Frank and KP come out highly ranked by other metrics. On the other hand, Kanter and Frank units come out pretty meh (well below Mitch-Frank units, although sample size is a problem, particularly for the latter). And you know what? That's not so amazing.

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

The funny thing is that we actually all know that - since we watched the games - (at least amongst bigs) that's true. He altered sooooo many shots. People are in denial about all of this.

Where Porzingis mainly struggled was getting out to shooters. He could stop everything at the paint and off the dribble but contesting his man at the 3 point line he was a nightmare.

[F N 11]

Frank plays defense and impacts the game this is nothing new....

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

The funny thing is that we actually all know that - since we watched the games - (at least amongst bigs) that's true. He altered sooooo many shots. People are in denial about all of this.

Where Porzingis mainly struggled was getting out to shooters. He could stop everything at the paint and off the dribble but contesting his man at the 3 point line he was a nightmare.

That's not a terrible take. "nightmare" is far too strong .. but for sure that wasn't his strong point, particularly for more mobile PFs and on switches. But that's precisely illustrates why he was so underrated - it was a small downside in comparison to the massive upsides - over which I agree with your comment fully - of adjusting shots in the paint.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Frank plays defense and impacts the game this is nothing new....

Right. And if you guard the point of attack youthe whole team really benefit(s) from having a "5" who can defend as well.

[GONYK]

Frank plays defense and impacts the game this is nothing new....

Right. And if you guard the point of attack youthe whole team really benefit(s) from having a "5" who can defend as well.

Which basically means a 1-5 of Frank and Mitch could recreate the league best defense that Frank and KP produced

[Infinitimind]

Frank plays defense and impacts the game this is nothing new....

Right. And if you guard the point of attack youthe whole team really benefit(s) from having a "5" who can defend as well.

Which basically means a 1-5 of Frank and Mitch could recreate the league best defense that Frank and KP produced

I think he will be important to our team, there are to many players that need the ball to be affective. If RJ and Randel are going start than frank, Robinson and Knox should be in the starting line up. It’s clear he understand he needs to hit the open shot, seems to be the focus of the summer workouts.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Frank plays defense and impacts the game this is nothing new....

Right. And if you guard the point of attack youthe whole team really benefit(s) from having a "5" who can defend as well.

Which basically means a 1-5 of Frank and Mitch could recreate the league best defense that Frank and KP produced

Yes, I actually believe that they can get close to it. Of course Mitch is a little trigger prone still, but in principle I do believe Frank+Mitch can be almost as good as Frank+KP. Either of those should be really league-leading.

tl;dr. I give the nod to Frank+KP because whilst Mitch defends the 3 better, and so switches better, I still give KP an edge because of altering shots anywhere from 15' in - whereas I feel Mitch mainly alters the shots he personally defends. But, it's pretty damn close, imo, and I wouldn't really want to contest too much with someone who leant the other way.

[nedleeds]

I think I'd need to dig into Nate's figures more than I will actually get around to in order to understand what that ranking is really evaluating.

From the sound-bites it appears as if it is mostly centers being given the highest rankings. I would want to see how the team defense plays into the figures - and how the ranking copes with combos - particularly 1-5 combos.

(I don't care what anyone thinks about was/is KP a 4 or a 5 - it's a meaningless distinction overall - for this purpose he's mainly a rim protecting 5 on defense - and his numbers are probably depressed by him defending 4s on the perimeter whilst KoQ/Kanter/Willi played "C").

One thing is for sure: KP comes out spectacularly in the DRAYMOND ("take that for stats" - oh wait, no, "off with his head", said the Perry queen) and, of course, units with Frank and KP come out highly ranked by other metrics. On the other hand, Kanter and Frank units come out pretty meh (well below Mitch-Frank units, although sample size is a problem, particularly for the latter). And you know what? That's not so amazing.

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

The funny thing is that we actually all know that - since we watched the games - (at least amongst bigs) that's true. He altered sooooo many shots. People are in denial about all of this.

KP was the 2nd best rim protector / paint protector in the league before he got hurt. His impact was nuts. He was also playing behind a joke back court of Timmy and Rose / Jack that couldn't stop anyone. Crap on KP for being a diva but he's an elite defender.

[blanko]

He is a point foward now, ala scottie. He doesnt have the burst to get in the lane against other point guards. He aint penny.

This is good for us! A versitle defensive wing that can initiate the offense is immensely valuable and easy to fit into any lineup.

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If he can't show that he can actually either shoot or drive (he hasn't shown either) it'll be kinda difficult for him to initiate any working offense. Teams will sag off of him and make it harder for the other 4 guys to get open. Considering that Frank hasn't exactly shown he's a natural passer, don't see how it'll work. At the end of the day, he's got to show the ability to do something on the offensive end. As of right now, he can't shoot, he can't create shots off the dribble and he doesn't seem to be an instinctive passer. Would be like asking Lance Thomas to initiate offenses.

really? i feel like that's one of the few things frank has shown -- court vision and even flashy passing.

Frank doesnt drive with his head down and kick it out like d rose. Apparently thats good passing. Frank is a great passer.

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[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

The funny thing is that we actually all know that - since we watched the games - (at least amongst bigs) that's true. He altered sooooo many shots. People are in denial about all of this.

KP was the 2nd best rim protector / paint protector in the league before he got hurt. His impact was nuts. He was also playing behind a joke back court of Timmy and Rose / Jack that couldn't stop anyone. Crap on KP for being a diva but he's an elite defender.

Yep. We'll see how he plays when coming back next year, but the FO bailed on trying to get in sync with an elite talent on both ends, for me. But we'll see.

[Meat]

Frank needs to be groomed into a 3-and-D. But whatever I no faith in our coaching staff

Yep, it falls on the coaching staff and not the sackless player

[Polk377]

I think a lot of people are really overlooking how good Frank is as a playmaker. The kid was constantly setting guys up in great positions to score. The way he is training this season seems to be mostly focused on reading the pick and setting up his own shot when his man goes under the screen. His shot looks a lot smoother using more legs than arms. Frank P&R with Randle will look really nice.

[blanko]

I think a lot of people are really overlooking how good Frank is as a playmaker. The kid was constantly setting guys up in great positions to score. The way he is training this season seems to be mostly focused on reading the pick and setting up his own shot when his man goes under the screen. His shot looks a lot smoother using more legs than arms. Frank P&R with Randle will look really nice.

The problem is when frank isnt a threat to shoot from outside the play off him and know he is only going to pass. That hurts his ability to playmake.

Off of us frank supporters love frank, but its year 3 for him, he knows what he needs to do. Lets see if he does it.

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[KnicksGadfly]

In general, I like guys like Frank who play defense and pass well but when your teammates have to carry your ass cause you suck on offense, you better get better. He's still young though.

[Nazrmohamed]

I agree that DRAYMOND favors bigs, because they tend to not give up space when defending shots at the rim.

The rating not only says that KP was a top 5 defender in the NBA before his injury, but also that he's the most underrated defender in the NBA

The funny thing is that we actually all know that - since we watched the games - (at least amongst bigs) that's true. He altered sooooo many shots. People are in denial about all of this.

Where Porzingis mainly struggled was getting out to shooters. He could stop everything at the paint and off the dribble but contesting his man at the 3 point line he was a nightmare.

But my thing was twofold
1- he did this with Kanter as his C at the time. A guy who couldn't defend the paint or anything for that matter. When watching games I felt like because KP always had to cover the paint in Kanters absence it caused that 3pt breakdown. Had his C been Robinson for example its probable that while his paint reputation might've dropped a bit but hed have an easier time out on the perimeter.

2- seeing as PFs seemingly take the least 3s at lower percentages I just think this idea that KP had been letting us down when in reality a great 3pt shooting 4 might convert on 2 attempts is overstating its impact.

In other words KP was so good all around that you should forgive a couple makes that didn't really change the outcome.

At least that was my view while he was here. Let's see if I'm that fair watching him on Dallas

[Polk377]

In general, I like guys like Frank who play defense and pass well but when your teammates have to carry your ass cause you suck on offense, you better get better. He's still young though.

Let's face it Frank hasn't exactly been playing with all-stars the last couple of seasons. If you have 3 or 4 scorers on the floor next to him the impact wouldn't have been as drastic. Lets not forget the more than handful of games Frank was absolutely clutch at the end either. He steps up late in games and hits big shots and makes winning plays.

[KnicksGadfly]

In general, I like guys like Frank who play defense and pass well but when your teammates have to carry your ass cause you suck on offense, you better get better. He's still young though.

Let's face it Frank hasn't exactly been playing with all-stars the last couple of seasons. If you have 3 or 4 scorers on the floor next to him the impact wouldn't have been as drastic. Lets not forget the more than handful of games Frank was absolutely clutch at the end either. He steps up late in games and hits big shots and makes winning plays.

He hasn't play with 3 or 4 scorers, but we can almost say the same for many others. DSJ hasn't played with shooters, for example. I feel like I can confidently say that for Frank, if he played with 3 or 4 scorers, he wouldn't be helping them, because he lets people clog the paint. In addition 3 or 4 scorers is a very high benchmark to set. It's very hard for me to picture a championship contending team (which is where all the scorers are anyway) that can cover for a offensive zero. The Golden State Warriors, maybe? They are able to play good defensive players who can't shoot, but they had Klay, Steph, KD, etc. Not exactly an endorsement of Frank. Rockets need shooters. Toronto had shooters. Bucks want shooters. Philadelphia needs shooters.

I like Frank and I think he has a potential to be a starter on a championship level team. However, the blame for his suck-it-tude lies with Frank right now, and not anyone else. I don't think we can expect Frank to be DSJ. He doesn't have that mentality and ability. But at the very least, to make it in this league, he needs a shot. He cannot blame his teammates much if he can't hit an open three. That's basically it. Learn to hit the three, or get off the team.