Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Barcs]

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Except the bench still sucks.

[HarthorneWingo]

Did we? I haven't seen them play yet. Hmmm.

We had able bodies who were good enough to play and we didn't play them, That's what I am talking about. Most of the time when he did play them they played well and he would bench them anyway. You do realize he got fired for this right? We had a bench.


If you think Clarkson is an upgrade over Shamet ok. I disagree. Yabu over Precious? Is that a tough decision to make? Our bench consisted of:
Deuce/Payne/Shamet/Wright/Precious/Mitch/Kolek/Huk/Pac etc.

All were healthy the second half of the season except for Huk.

We played:
Deuce/Mitch

Anyone else was fighting to get 5-10 minutes and maybe 30 minutes combined.

It cost him his job according to reports.

We had a bench. We still have almost the same exact bench with two different players. Thibs would have still played them just as few minutes.

Look, when Hart came off the bench, Thibs played him. Same for IQ. Same for Mitch once he was cleared to play more minutes. He knew who was ready and who wasn’t. I hope if these youngsters develop that people give Thibs the proper respect. There’s no coach who is more prepared than him. Here’s iHart discussing Thibs:

Watch on YouTube

You people who dogged him gonna get FAFO’d.

Maybe he was prepared in a technical way, but certainly not in a holistic way.

It was clear from january on that the starting line-up is not working anymore and Thibs didn't even attempt some different look. He had at one point all 5 starters in the league's top 20 in minutes played. In November people were saying a 7,5 man rotation is not going to succeed in May but Thibs kept at it. In the end really all legitimate criticism of hmi came true and cost us the Pacers series and a legit shot at a title against OKC. On top it seems at least part of the players were not buying into him anymore.

We needed to go a different direction, there is no question about that.

We need a more Zen-like coach!

[HarthorneWingo]

We had a bench. Thibs is no longer here. Do the math. He sucked at utilizing his bench. Game over.

The bench sucked. Do the math. He didn't use em because they were liabilities.

Thibs was the libility.

Which is why he got canned.

Decent FA bench players wouldn't sign with us knowing Thibs wouldn't play them. The only paths to upgrading the bench were: trade a core player or dump the orc so FA's will sign with us.

They dumped the orc and now we suddenly have a deeper bench.

He sucked because he got us to ECF with no bench?

[Iron Mantis]

The bench sucked. Do the math. He didn't use em because they were liabilities.

Thibs was the libility.

Which is why he got canned.

Decent FA bench players wouldn't sign with us knowing Thibs wouldn't play them. The only paths to upgrading the bench were: trade a core player or dump the orc so FA's will sign with us.

They dumped the orc and now we suddenly have a deeper bench.

He sucked because he got us to ECF with no bench?

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

[HarthorneWingo]

Thibs was the libility.

Which is why he got canned.

Decent FA bench players wouldn't sign with us knowing Thibs wouldn't play them. The only paths to upgrading the bench were: trade a core player or dump the orc so FA's will sign with us.

They dumped the orc and now we suddenly have a deeper bench.

He sucked because he got us to ECF with no bench?

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

[Iron Mantis]

He sucked because he got us to ECF with no bench?

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

What part about what happened don't you Thibs apologists understand?

Thibs was supposed to use the bench, PERIOD. He refused to, and his monkey azz got canned.. the team would not have imploded if Thibs used and developed the bench during the season and had them ready for the playoffs.

Neither the players, or the FO are convinced they were in the ECF cuz Thibs is a great coach. They do, however, believe in the team's talent level.

Thibs is buns.. it's why he got fired...the players and FO wanted it. He's trash and thankfully he's gone forever.

Feast with me... we're eating good:

[HarthorneWingo]

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

What part about what happened don't you Thibs apologists understand?

Thibs was supposed to use the bench, PERIOD. He refused to, and his monkey azz got canned.. the team would not have imploded if Thibs used and developed the bench during the season and had them ready for the playoffs.

Neither the players, or the FO are convinced they were in the ECF cuz Thibs is a great coach. They do, however, believe in the team's talent level.

Thibs is buns.. it's why he got fired...the players and FO wanted it. He's trash and thankfully he's gone forever.

Feast with me... we're eating good:

I guess “YOU PEOPLE” don’t enjoy success.

[Iron Mantis]

Read on Twitter

What part about what happened don't you Thibs apologists understand?

Thibs was supposed to use the bench, PERIOD. He refused to, and his monkey azz got canned.. the team would not have imploded if Thibs used and developed the bench during the season and had them ready for the playoffs.

Neither the players, or the FO are convinced they were in the ECF cuz Thibs is a great coach. They do, however, believe in the team's talent level.

Thibs is buns.. it's why he got fired...the players and FO wanted it. He's trash and thankfully he's gone forever.

Feast with me... we're eating good:

I guess “YOU PEOPLE” don’t enjoy success.

Thibs is wack...his firing was well-deserved.

This team got by on talent alone...not on coaching.

[HarthorneWingo]

What part about what happened don't you Thibs apologists understand?

Thibs was supposed to use the bench, PERIOD. He refused to, and his monkey azz got canned.. the team would not have imploded if Thibs used and developed the bench during the season and had them ready for the playoffs.

Neither the players, or the FO are convinced they were in the ECF cuz Thibs is a great coach. They do, however, believe in the team's talent level.

Thibs is buns.. it's why he got fired...the players and FO wanted it. He's trash and thankfully he's gone forever.

Feast with me... we're eating good:

I guess “YOU PEOPLE” don’t enjoy success.

Thibs is wack...his firing was well-deserved.

This team got by on talent alone...not on coaching.

Noooo?????? You mean to say that a team’s talent level impacts how well they do? That’s unbelievable! I had no clue. Gee thanks, Mantis.

So if the Knicks do better this coming season, will it be due to the take talent level, the lack of competition in the EC, or the new head coach?

You’re “argument” and is basically “but this goes to 11”

Just admit defeat.

Watch on YouTube

[Iron Mantis]

I guess “YOU PEOPLE” don’t enjoy success.

Thibs is wack...his firing was well-deserved.

This team got by on talent alone...not on coaching.

Noooo?????? You mean to say that a team’s talent level impacts how well they do? That’s unbelievable! I had no clue. Gee thanks, Mantis.

So if the Knicks do better this coming season, will it be due to the take talent level, the lack of competition in the EC, or the new head coach?

You’re “argument” and is basically “but this goes to 11”

Watch on YouTube

Sorry man, but I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore.

Thibs got canned because the FO and players, including the bench, are all in agreement that we needed a coaching change. The orc is gone, but the talent is the same.

Although you think you know better than the Knicks' players and FO about what the team needs, and you think without Thibs the team will somehow implode and be in the lottery....you can rest assured that you're dead wrong and your tears over Thibs are a waste.

Real question is: You eating this canned orc with us or do you think crying will bring Thibs back?? He's gone forever....rejoice and feast with us, brethren.

[Adelheid]

I guess “YOU PEOPLE” don’t enjoy success.

Thibs is wack...his firing was well-deserved.

This team got by on talent alone...not on coaching.

Noooo?????? You mean to say that a team’s talent level impacts how well they do? That’s unbelievable! I had no clue. Gee thanks, Mantis.

So if the Knicks do better this coming season, will it be due to the take talent level, the lack of competition in the EC, or the new head coach?

You’re “argument” and is basically “but this goes to 11”

Just admit defeat.

Watch on YouTube

wingo, when thibs got here, the 1st season still was a losing record (11-14)....until FO traded for derrick rose, then they went on a magical cinderella run that led to playoffs for the 1st time since 8 years ago

the FO has been building from strength to strength since the rj barrett draft season and is the major reason we have guys like brunson kat and og. Thibs wasnt a magical git gud pill like everyone is romanticizing. Remove the derrick rose trade and all the personnel improvements and everyone would think its the same ol' losing knicks

[HarthorneWingo]

Thibs is wack...his firing was well-deserved.

This team got by on talent alone...not on coaching.

Noooo?????? You mean to say that a team’s talent level impacts how well they do? That’s unbelievable! I had no clue. Gee thanks, Mantis.

So if the Knicks do better this coming season, will it be due to the take talent level, the lack of competition in the EC, or the new head coach?

You’re “argument” and is basically “but this goes to 11”

Just admit defeat.

Watch on YouTube

wingo, when thibs got here, the 1st season still was a losing record (11-14)....until FO traded for derrick rose, then they went on a magical cinderella run that led to playoffs for the 1st time since 8 years ago

the FO has been building from strength to strength since the rj barrett draft season and is the major reason we have guys like brunson kat and og. Thibs wasnt a magical git gud pill like everyone is romanticizing. Remove the derrick rose trade and all the personnel improvements and everyone would think its the same ol' losing knicks

Right so as the quality of the roster increased, the better the results were. I have no issue with that statement of fact. The issue is why was Thibs fired? For what reason(s)? I firmly believe, as others do, that the main reason why Thibs was fired was because he “wasn’t cooperative with management.” CP The Franchise said the same thing on his podcast.

Here’s a good question, “Did you like the the Knicks’ trade of 2 second round draft picks for Cam Reddish?” I would say with great confidence that Thibs was right on that one. How about giving IQ a lot of responsibility even in his rookie season.

You people are creating your own reason for why you wanted this out and when they’re countered by the facts, then claim, “Well Thibs sucked and he had to go!”

So what happened after that? Oopsy, there were no clear choices better than Thibs. In fact, we passed on another HC consideration in and NBA champ Mike Malone who is widely considered as a Thibs clone. So who do we eventually hire after scouring the NBA and NCAA? The guy referred to as “Black Thibs”. A couch who is no better than Thibs. The reason why he was hired was because he’ll be a good “Yes” man. He won’t “whine” when Leon makes another “Cam Reddish” trade. Maybe now that Thibs turned us into winners, Dolan and Leon think “Yeah, we got this now. Fuq Thibs”?

I think it’s the later.

[Adelheid]

You can have all the sentimental feelings for thibs; everyone has the right to do so

But can thibs bring the knicks to the finals the way he is acting recently? would the players even continue to support and listen to him?

copy pasted from my own post previous page - I quoted this all from alan hahn direct from the yt video

"if they dont make the conference finals, something horrible happens. lets start there, right? like something really bad happen for everybody on that team. you are both right, because its going to be both stars. its the whole team. its OG anunoby. its mikal bridges. its everybody on that team. here's why...because the players, in their exit interviews, are what motivated the decision by the upper management to fire tom thibodeau. thats what we were told. the players had a list of complaints. they did not have the full support of the coach. the things they said in these meetings motivated the move to fire the coach now rather than if we go into the next season and the problems continue, now we have to fire a coach mid-season. we dont want to do that, so just do it now. so that's to me why it leaves it all on the players now to prove that, with a new coach and a new voice and a new system, whatever it is, that they can now reach potential that some people thought they did not reach this past season."

Thibs did lose the locker room. When that happens, there is no reason for the coach to remain, as they will not listen to the hc anymore.

improving the roster isnt an exact science; No FO out there could claim 100 percent of their moves would be correct. The coach is supposed to help them validate; FO provides the pieces to help the coach, the coach evaluates and uses pieces as he sees fit to help the team long-term. That is what collaboration means. The 2 sides, the FO and the coaching staff - they are supposed to be helping each other out, not trying to 1-up on the other. No stand-offs. That is why, on knicksfantv, CP fanchise emphasized the next coach has to be collaborative with the front office, which could infer that thibs was no longer cooperative.

[Iron Mantis]

What they were adamant about the next HC being able to accomplish, is what Thibs could not/refused to do....so he got fired. When Dolan has to come into the locker room and basically tell the coach to play Huk....that's a problem..

“In interviews with Brown & others Knicks concentrated on how coaches could change substitution patterns, league sources said…balance competitiveness with development of younger non-rotation players at edge of bench. Candidates presented strategies on how to handle”.....

These things are important to the team's immediate and long-term success. If Thibs did those things all season....the team would have been in much better position to adapt, stay fresh, beat Indy, and our youth would be on their next step of development instead of being completely shelved.

Well-deserved firing. Knicks deserve better.

[spree2kawhi]

Found this Stan Van Gundy quote on Hoopshype:

“So, next up on the list: the Knicks made a mistake by getting rid of Tom Thibodeau.” Stan Van Gundy “Yeah, they totally did. That was a big mistake. Tom Thibodeau—one of the best coaches in this league—did an unbelievable job with that team this year. Maximized virtually everyone on their roster. I mean, OG Anunoby—best year of his career. Karl-Anthony Towns—probably the best year of his career. Jalen Brunson, a guy who was what, a 15–16 point-a-game scorer in Dallas, has become a star. Josh Hart went from a backup to a triple-double-type of guy in New York. I mean, he just maximized this roster and took them places they hadn’t been in a quarter of a century. And they make a coaching change? Made absolutely no sense to me.”

I think that’s actually fair.

[Barcs]

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

What part about what happened don't you Thibs apologists understand?

Thibs was supposed to use the bench, PERIOD. He refused to, and his monkey azz got canned.. the team would not have imploded if Thibs used and developed the bench during the season and had them ready for the playoffs.

Neither the players, or the FO are convinced they were in the ECF cuz Thibs is a great coach. They do, however, believe in the team's talent level.

Thibs is buns.. it's why he got fired...the players and FO wanted it. He's trash and thankfully he's gone forever.

Feast with me... we're eating good:

If Thibs used our full bench we'd have 7-8 less wins and likely don't beat Boston.

[Jalen Bluntson]

He sucked because he got us to ECF with no bench?

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

We replaced Payne/Shamet/Wright with Jordan Clarkson. We replaced Precious with Yabusele. We aren't deeper at all. We still have two spots to fill just to get to the minimum 14 players(unless I missed something this weekend).

Thibs had a bench. This narrative that he didn't is absolute nonsense. The fact that someone thinks we're deeper with only 12 players shows how ridiculous it is.

[spree2kawhi]

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

We replaced Payne/Shamet/Wright with Jordan Clarkson. We replaced Precious with Yabusele. We aren't deeper at all. We still have two spots to fill just to get to the minimum 14 players(unless I missed something this weekend).

Thibs had a bench. This narrative that he didn't is absolute nonsense. The fact that someone thinks we're deeper with only 12 players shows how ridiculous it is.

To be fair, this offseason isn’t over yet. I agree to some extent though and I also cannot understand that Thibs was fired without a clear choice for the job already in place.

[Fat Kat]

No bench.

Right...I forgot the Knicks waived 8 players and only had 7 players on the entire roster all season and for the playoffs.

Impossible to play guys if they don't exist.

Read on Twitter

We replaced Payne/Shamet/Wright with Jordan Clarkson. We replaced Precious with Yabusele. We aren't deeper at all. We still have two spots to fill just to get to the minimum 14 players(unless I missed something this weekend).

Thibs had a bench. This narrative that he didn't is absolute nonsense. The fact that someone thinks we're deeper with only 12 players shows how ridiculous it is.

I’m of the opinion that scouts like Walt Perrin and Frank Zanin were as instrumental in Thibs’ firing as Wes was. It’s a kick in the nuts when you scout college and pro players, only for them to rot on the bench. Our depth really depends on what the sophomore players can bring to the table, and I don’t think we’ve seen enough of them to really know one way or the other

[Iron Mantis]

Read on Twitter

What part about what happened don't you Thibs apologists understand?

Thibs was supposed to use the bench, PERIOD. He refused to, and his monkey azz got canned.. the team would not have imploded if Thibs used and developed the bench during the season and had them ready for the playoffs.

Neither the players, or the FO are convinced they were in the ECF cuz Thibs is a great coach. They do, however, believe in the team's talent level.

Thibs is buns.. it's why he got fired...the players and FO wanted it. He's trash and thankfully he's gone forever.

Feast with me... we're eating good:

If Thibs used our full bench we'd have 7-8 less wins and likely don't beat Boston.

Right

Well I say that if Thibs played the bench we would have 7-8 more wins, likely swept Boston, had enough energy to beat Indiana, and had the depth to beat the Thunder.

Thibs got fired, so looks like I'm right and you're wrong.