Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 268 in MSG Usman vs Colby 2, Rose vs Zhang 2

Post #1281 » by **j4remi** » Mon Nov 2, 2020 2:00 am

It sucks watching the greats age out of the sport. The wild thing with Anderson is he probably took two rounds and was ahead in the third before he got clipped. This is WAAAAAY past prime Silva; the precision has slipped, the speed and the snap are diminished and the chin has been gone a while now...but he's still giving a UFC top 10 fighter problems.

Silva was like a Roy Jones type elusive striker. Dude at peak was my absolute GOAT until Jon Jones' early title run through a gang of all-timers. I feel like the post-Weidman crash and tainted test after his gruesome leg injury will forever taint his place on all-time lists, but he was freaking special. Mighty Mouse has the record for title defenses, but Silva won just as many fights while he was the champion and held his belt for the longest span of time.

It's bittersweet to watch the guy's career come to a close like this, but I consider myself blessed to have ridden through the era where he was Jordan or Tyson.

Israel Adesanya moving up to 205 is the right move. I don't think we need a Whitaker rematch, the division doesn't have a real challenger for Izzy unless Chimaev moves at lightspeed through the top ten. He can move up and test the waters with a high caliber opponent in Blacohwicz and that would set up a potential fight with Jones or at least another series of fights to clear out the division.

bringbackhoffa · Post #1282 » by **bringbackhoffa** » Mon Nov 2, 2020 2:29 am

I dont get why the ufc is risking the Jones vs Addesanya match up unless they know Jones is committed to heavyweight and cannot make 205 anytime soon. I feel addesanya beating Jan really does nothing for his legacy, sure he wins a second belt, but he beats someone who has never defended his belt yet. I'm actually starting to buy into the narrative that Isreal is hand picking his opponents.

HarthorneWingo · Post #1283 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Mon Nov 2, 2020 6:05 am

j4remi wrote:It sucks watching the greats age out of the sport. The wild thing with Anderson is he probably took two rounds and was ahead in the third before he got clipped. This is WAAAAAY past prime Silva; the precision has slipped, the speed and the snap are diminished and the chin has been gone a while now...but he's still giving a UFC top 10 fighter problems.

Silva was like a Roy Jones type elusive striker. Dude at peak was my absolute GOAT until Jon Jones' early title run through a gang of all-timers. I feel like the post-Weidman crash and tainted test after his gruesome leg injury will forever taint his place on all-time lists, but he was freaking special. Mighty Mouse has the record for title defenses, but Silva won just as many fights while he was the champion and held his belt for the longest span of time.

It's bittersweet to watch the guy's career come to a close like this, but I consider myself blessed to have ridden through the era where he was Jordan or Tyson.

Israel Adesanya moving up to 205 is the right move. I don't think we need a Whitaker rematch, the division doesn't have a real challenger for Izzy unless Chimaev moves at lightspeed through the top ten. He can move up and test the waters with a high caliber opponent in Blacohwicz and that would set up a potential fight with Jones or at least another series of fights to clear out the division.

ESPN replayed Silva vs Rich Franklin this past week. I almost had to stop watching it seeing the look of horror in Franklin's eyes. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Post #1284 » by **j4remi** » Mon Nov 2, 2020 3:00 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
ESPN replayed Silva vs Rich Franklin this past week. I almost had to stop watching it seeing the look of horror in Franklin's eyes. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Complete and utter confusion is how I've always recalled it. Franklin was powerless and had no clue how to respond to the double collar tie. You see that deer in headlights moment when a striker gets taken to the ground by a grappler. Maia and Khabib have guys looking like they're drowning. Silva would do that to strikers and it started from his UFC debut with Leben rolling around confused.

HarthorneWingo · Post #1285 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 3, 2020 11:31 am

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
ESPN replayed Silva vs Rich Franklin this past week. I almost had to stop watching it seeing the look of horror in Franklin's eyes. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Complete and utter confusion is how I've always recalled it. Franklin was powerless and had no clue how to respond to the double collar tie. You see that deer in headlights moment when a striker gets taken to the ground by a grappler. Maia and Khabib have guys looking like they're drowning. Silva would do that to strikers and it started from his UFC debut with Leben rolling around confused.

Was that a standard Muay Thai clinch Silva had on him? I was confounded by Franklin’s inability to maneuver his way out of it. He seemed to try to resist it but that only served to keep himself right where Silva wanted him. My very novice thought was that it’s better to use that force from the clinch against Silva by simply bringing my head downward and then trying to roll or spin out of it. You’d have to protect your head against a knee of course which makes it risky.

Does that make any sense?

Post #1286 » by **j4remi** » Tue Nov 3, 2020 3:35 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Was that a standard Muay Thai clinch Silva had on him? I was confounded by Franklin’s inability to maneuver his way out of it. He seemed to try to resist it but that only served to keep himself right where Silva wanted him. My very novice thought was that it’s better to use that force from the clinch against Silva by simply bringing my head downward and then trying to roll or spin out of it. You’d have to protect your head against a knee of course which makes it risky.

Does that make any sense?

The double collar is kinda crazy when you let someone that's a pro show you just how much control they can have from that grip. Basically, the best defense of a a Thai clinch is to stay out of it. That's because they have all the leverage on your upperbody and there's a response for every potential escape motion. So what you mention are good ideas to try to escape, but each comes with a set of counters for the guy with the grip to try.

Coming forward probably feels the most natural, but a dude with experience will hit you with a short elbow that uses your own momentum against you. Or he'll step slightly off line and pull you into a trip. Or he'll give way and pull your head down into a knee. So you need to be thinking about defense while you try to avoid all that. So a lot guys who bring their weight forward will drive a hand or forearm (or two) into the other guys face while they do it. Dudes that are nice might try to throw you with that momentum too though...no easy outs :lol:

Rolling is a good idea but also at constant threat of being pulled into a knee, elbow or uppercut. Pommeling to break a collar tie is pretty natural, Thai cats just have the most counters. If the guy's already knee'ing or punching your body, it makes that roll a lot more difficult.

That first Franklin fight, he started off trying to move forward and strike his way out. But that got him chewed up, so he switched to pulling away...that just got him hit with more torque. The second fight is dope to me because he avoids the the Thai clinch by any means necessary. He gets an overhook or tries to grab a leg or force any other clinch he can. Silva still chews him up through it all but you can see an adjustment which was the golden rule "stay out of the Thai clinch for the love of God!"

HarthorneWingo · Post #1287 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 3, 2020 8:19 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Was that a standard Muay Thai clinch Silva had on him? I was confounded by Franklin’s inability to maneuver his way out of it. He seemed to try to resist it but that only served to keep himself right where Silva wanted him. My very novice thought was that it’s better to use that force from the clinch against Silva by simply bringing my head downward and then trying to roll or spin out of it. You’d have to protect your head against a knee of course which makes it risky.

Does that make any sense?

The double collar is kinda crazy when you let someone that's a pro show you just how much control they can have from that grip. Basically, the best defense of a a Thai clinch is to stay out of it. That's because they have all the leverage on your upperbody and there's a response for every potential escape motion. So what you mention are good ideas to try to escape, but each comes with a set of counters for the guy with the grip to try.

Coming forward probably feels the most natural, but a dude with experience will hit you with a short elbow that uses your own momentum against you. Or he'll step slightly off line and pull you into a trip. Or he'll give way and pull your head down into a knee. So you need to be thinking about defense while you try to avoid all that. So a lot guys who bring their weight forward will drive a hand or forearm (or two) into the other guys face while they do it. Dudes that are nice might try to throw you with that momentum too though...no easy outs

Rolling is a good idea but also at constant threat of being pulled into a knee, elbow or uppercut. Pommeling to break a collar tie is pretty natural, Thai cats just have the most counters. If the guy's already knee'ing or punching your body, it makes that roll a lot more difficult.

That first Franklin fight, he started off trying to move forward and is strike his way out. But that got him chewed up, so he switched to pulling away...that just got him hit with more torque. The second fight is dope to me because he avoids the the Thai clinch by any means necessary. He gets an overhook or tries to grab a leg or force any other clinch he can. Silva still chews him up through it all but you can see an adjustment which was the golden rule "stay out of the Thai clinch for the love of God!"

That was excellent, masterful. I’m gonna watch Silva/Franklin II.

Thank you, Sensai

Post #1288 » by **j4remi** » Sat Nov 7, 2020 3:26 pm

I overslept and I'm running late, but I wanted to do a quick drop in and mention that one of my personal favorite fighters is making a comeback tonight. Thiago Santos almost upset Jon Jones despite tearing everything in one knee and partial tears in the other. Dude has always been extremely exciting to watch fight and he got his title shot with Jones by being the last person to beat current champ Jan Blachowicz (by KO in a great fight).

Santos is back against Glover Texeira. Yall don't need an intro to him. Glover's been a mainstay of the division and chasing one more chance at gold. He's won recent fights on veteran experience and great grappling. If he takes Thiago down, he could pull off another big dub. This one's all about seeing if Thiago is back to what he was prior to surgery though. If it's old Thiago, he should KO Glover and be in line for the winner of Jan vs Izzy. His takedown defense was damned good prior to the knees blowing out and I'm even more concerned about his kicks...Thiago throws epic leg kicks that set off everything, I've seen people comeback from knee injuries and just not kick anymore.

The rest of the card is a big time prospect watch. Boser is a HW fast riser, Barcelos is a buzzsaw vs another exciting striker and Xiaonan is a really fun striker to watch work. Don't sleep fam! Giga Chikadze is on the prelims too...he's legit!

ellobo · Post #1289 » by **ellobo** » Sat Nov 7, 2020 11:34 pm

j4remi wrote: Giga Chikadze is on the prelims too...he's legit!

Wait, the dude who plays for the Pacers is also a fighter?

Clyde_Style · Post #1290 » by **Clyde_Style** » Sat Nov 7, 2020 11:36 pm

j4remi wrote:I overslept and I'm running late, but I wanted to do a quick drop in and mention that one of my personal favorite fighters is making a comeback tonight. Thiago Santos almost upset Jon Jones despite tearing everything in one knee and partial tears in the other. Dude has always been extremely exciting to watch fight and he got his title shot with Jones by being the last person to beat current champ Jan Blachowicz (by KO in a great fight).

Santos is back against Glover Texeira. Yall don't need an intro to him. Glover's been a mainstay of the division and chasing one more chance at gold. He's won recent fights on veteran experience and great grappling. If he takes Thiago down, he could pull off another big dub. This one's all about seeing if Thiago is back to what he was prior to surgery though. If it's old Thiago, he should KO Glover and be in line for the winner of Jan vs Izzy. His takedown defense was damned good prior to the knees blowing out and I'm even more concerned about his kicks...Thiago throws epic leg kicks that set off everything, I've seen people comeback from knee injuries and just not kick anymore.

The rest of the card is a big time prospect watch. Boser is a HW fast riser, Barcelos is a buzzsaw vs another exciting striker and Xiaonan is a really fun striker to watch work. Don't sleep fam! Giga Chikadze is on the prelims too...he's legit!

Oh before you run off to watch the fights, just wanted to let you know: Biden won

HarthorneWingo · Post #1291 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sun Nov 8, 2020 1:29 am

Ramiz's ear if falling off his head. Ew.

HarthorneWingo · Post #1292 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sun Nov 8, 2020 2:17 am

Brittney Palmer :droop:

HarthorneWingo · Post #1293 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sun Nov 8, 2020 2:27 am

Alexander Rominov. Nice.

HarthorneWingo · Post #1294 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sun Nov 8, 2020 4:19 am

What a round! Barcelos vs Taha

HarthorneWingo · Post #1295 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sun Nov 8, 2020 5:47 am

Glover is unbelievable the way he takes all that damage and still get the take downs.

Old man power wins tonight!

HarthorneWingo · Post #1296 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:17 am

Glover Texiera should get the LHW title fight against Jan instead of Izzy. Thoughts?

bringbackhoffa · Post #1297 » by **bringbackhoffa** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:48 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:Glover Texiera should get the LHW title fight against Jan instead of Izzy. Thoughts?

He should and Whitaker should get his rematch vs izzy. Jan has done nothing to deserve a super fight, he hasn't even defended his title once yet. Given how long Whitaker held onto the belt he deserves a rematch.

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HarthorneWingo · Post #1298 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:14 am

bringbackhoffa wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Glover Texiera should get the LHW title fight against Jan instead of Izzy. Thoughts?
He should and Whitaker should get his rematch vs izzy. Jan has done nothing to deserve a super fight, he hasn't even defended his title once yet. Given how long Whitaker held onto the belt he deserves a rematch.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Agreed. DC and Halwani were discussing it. From what I can gather, Jan wants to fight in March 2021 but Izzy wants February, which is a problem for Jan. So, yeah, it makes much better sense for Izzy v. Whitaker and Glover v. Jan. It makes too much sense. Izzy can get the winner if he moves up in weight after the Whitaker rematch.

bringbackhoffa · Post #1299 » by **bringbackhoffa** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:26 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
bringbackhoffa wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Glover Texiera should get the LHW title fight against Jan instead of Izzy. Thoughts?
He should and Whitaker should get his rematch vs izzy. Jan has done nothing to deserve a super fight, he hasn't even defended his title once yet. Given how long Whitaker held onto the belt he deserves a rematch.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Agreed. DC and Halwani were discussing it. From what I can gather, Jan wants to fight in March 2021 but Izzy wants February, which is a problem for Jan. So, yeah, it makes much better sense for Izzy v. Whitaker and Glover v. Jan. It makes too much sense. Izzy can get the winner if he moves up in weight after the Whitaker rematch.

I wouldnt be so sure izzy beats Whitaker in a rematch. Izzy has looked really good in his past 2 since defeat to izzy. He pretty much admitted his heart wasn't really into it when be fought izzy, was tired of the promotional requirements that the belt carries, and remember it was done in Australia where even more pressure on media requirements for him.

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HarthorneWingo · Post #1300 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:34 am

bringbackhoffa wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
bringbackhoffa wrote:He should and Whitaker should get his rematch vs izzy. Jan has done nothing to deserve a super fight, he hasn't even defended his title once yet. Given how long Whitaker held onto the belt he deserves a rematch.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Agreed. DC and Halwani were discussing it. From what I can gather, Jan wants to fight in March 2021 but Izzy wants February, which is a problem for Jan. So, yeah, it makes much better sense for Izzy v. Whitaker and Glover v. Jan. It makes too much sense. Izzy can get the winner if he moves up in weight after the Whitaker rematch.

I wouldnt be so sure izzy beats Whitaker in a rematch. Izzy has looked really good in his past 2 since defeat to izzy. He pretty much admitted his heart wasn't really into it when be fought izzy, was tired of the promotional requirements that the belt carries, and remember it was done in Australia where even more pressure on media requirements for him.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Oh, you're right about Whitaker v. Izzy. I'm really looking forward to that one. Whitaker seems really focused and using all of his weapons.