Jeremy Lin's Contract Saga: Part VII

[ORANGEandBLUE]

I think you're underestimating the level of anger and depression. And you're overestimating the solution that winning will provide. Fans in NY are sophisticated -- they know you're not going anywhere with Ray Felton at point. The wins will keep the boos at bay but they won't satisfy the fan base.

MSG will be a morgue or a hostile environment. I promise you.

Agree to disagree. Because I think you're overestimating Lin. Way more people than you believe are going to be understanding of not bringing him back for that kind of money if they do not.

People will be sad, reminiscent of a fun time. But winning will make them forget. And I think youre underestimating what the team will without Lin as well.

Forget about this season. Does this change your outlook on the team for the remaining 20 or so years that Dolan has control?

[K_ick_God]

Without Lin, the Knicks will turn into JR Smith Chucking for Dollars.

Like Bowling for Dollars. Someone should make a GIF of that. Chucking for Dollars.

[NYStateofMind]

I'm kind of down the middle right now anyway: The way this was handled, I think it's best for Lin to go. And if they show me that they're dumb enough to let him go while still pretending to be title contenders, then I'll be liberated from the hopes that drive continued fan interest.

I'll just know that they're all getting their comeuppance. But there will be nothing to see here and I'll just be able to walk away knowing that you can't invest in something that has nothing to give back.

Knicks would be proving that they don't have a clue. And Melo will be targeted and end his tenure in miserable fashion, rightly or wrongly.

Raymond Effin Felton. Unbelievable.

Right there with you. I almost want us to NOT match Lin so I can be freed from this rotten organization.

That really makes you seem quite fickle and disloyal. You're going to stop rooting for a team you've always rooted for just because a certain player isn't retained? Have some courage and stick with your team through and through like a real fan (short for "fanatic," I'll remind you).

The only reasons I would be OK with Lin not being retained is because I don't think it automatically equals no shot at contending by any stretch and I would be happy to trim the fat of "Knicks fans" who really only care about Jeremy Lin. I knew you wanted to keep him, but didn't think you were one of them.

That being said, I think the smart business and basketball move is to match the contract and bring Lin back. He still has a ton of potential, I think he will be a solid starter in this league for years if he can stay healthy, and his marketability alone makes him a trade chip even if he doesnt live up to his contract on the court.

The deifying of this guy and the crucifiction of anyone who isn't sold on him being the savior or be-all and end-all really needs to stop, though.

[H_20]

Kind of funny that this is one situation where fans DO want Dolan to meddle in basketball affairs and override management.

That's assuming SAS and the twitter insiders have a clue what decisions management may or may not have made.

It would make dolan look like the hero.

That's exactly what i was just thinking right now.

[mpharris36]

Stephen A Smith ‏@stephenasmith
Knicks' brass has already decided to let Jeremy Lin head to Houston. But that doesn't mean owner Dolan won't change his mind by 11:50 2nite.

Translation: I don't know, nor have I ever known, a f*cking thing about this situation.

bingo....i just tweeted him that

[Red Vines]

Kind of funny that this is one situation where fans DO want Dolan to meddle in basketball affairs and override management.

That's assuming SAS and the twitter insiders have a clue what decisions management may or may not have made.

I think acquiring Felton signaled their initial plans. There is room for Lin but I don't think the plan was to create a crowded backcourt situation.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

With Lin and Shump out:

Lin (30) / Felton (18)
Kidd (24) / Felton (10) / JR (14)
Melo (34) / JR (10) / Novak (4)
Amare (34) / Novak (14)
Chandler (30) / Camby (18)

Without Lin and Shump out:

Felton (34) / Kidd (14)
JR (34) / Kidd (14)
Melo (36) / Novak (12)
Amare (36) / Novak (12)
Chandler (30) / Camby (18)

Without Lin, it doesn't look good. One injury to the backcourt or a drug bust, or driving DUI and we are back to playing Bibby.

Fixed

[makeitstop]

Are you ready to convince yourself that Felton can lead the Knicks to a title? Simple question. Or are you saying that you will still invest even though you'd know the Knicks are stuck with this roster and stuck with no chance at a title?

I'll be 100% honest here.

The chances that the Knicks will win a title - either with or without Lin - are extremely slim no matter which way you decide to slice it.

As far as I'm concerned and given the fact that there is a team in Florida that will dominate the league until age and/or injury intervene, Ray Felton's chances and Lin's chances of leading NYK to a title are pretty much even.

I say that because while we know Felton's shortcomings and are familiar with them, Lin is a tabula rasa - a blank slate upon which people can project the rosiest scenario possible. If he continues to improve, he may lead the Knicks to the promised land. If he works on his game and overcomes his deficiencies, he'll be in the pantheon.

If, if, if. I look at it as an open question, while you and others accept Lin developing into a top PG as a matter of faith. I can't do that, because that is a setup for disappointment if he just becomes average or goes the route of so many other Knick prospects who showed big promise and failed to live up to it.

As a result, I am completely resigned to letting chips fall. If Lin is back, he's my dude. If they don't match and he goes to Texas, good luck to him in every circumstance except when he faces the Knicks.

If we end up having to ride with Ray Felton, I'm good. I want to see how Woodson integrates the Hoveround crew to augment the starters, and I'll be happy to see a full season without the ridiculous compression of last season.

Repeating what I said up top, we've got just about as good a chance at a title with Felton as with Lin, because the Three Amigos with Ray Ray are standing in the way of both of them.

I don't begrudge anyone's feelings toward Lin, but I'm looking at it differently from most of you.

Either way. NYK, ride or die.

[No35]

Charles Oakley coming up. I hope he owns SAS.

He wants Fatton. Talks about Fatton's defense when the stats prove that Lin had a lower opponent PPP than Fatton last year. Talks about "experience" going up against Miami and Chicago. Thinks Fatton and Kidd will bring the toughness to carry the Knicks to the FINALS.

Ghey.

[Jay10]

lol@ no one wanting to summarize what oakley is saying about jeremy

[21shumpst]

That's not even my point. Hopefully Melo lived up to his statement yesterday and is asking/begging Dolan to keep Lin. And that Dolan wants to and will.

Melo can help and probably cause Dolan to match if he wants it badly enough (whatever that is).

My point is a solid prediction: Melo and mostly Melo, with some Felton, will be miserable at MSG. Fans will take it out on them. And maybe JR too. The whole team. People will be deflated after losing Lin and they will be looking for an enemy. I know this with every cell in my body.

The hatred is going to come crashing down around Melo and mostly Melo. Fans were already booing him early last season when they felt he was holding the ball too much. Now with the "ridiculous" comment and the sheer depression of losing such a fun-to-watch story like Lin ...

Melo is going to pay ... and pay big.

Bad prediction. Melo's time here will be a hell of a lot less "miserable" without the drama of Lin around, if you have to look at it that way. The fans won't boo any more than they would if Lin were here if they are losing. You're exaggerating for affect the impact of Lin leaving, while trying to tie it into an inverse relationship with the view of Melo - and it's not there.

Melo will have more "pressure" to lead the team by people who somehow think since James won it's "his time" than bc Lin went to Houston and the Knicks didn't match.

We'll see. If they don't match.

We'll see how the crowd receives Melo and how forgiving they are.

I think some of us here don't fully appreciate the magnitude of sheer and utter idiocy of our fan base. Its all about perception, and that perception is molded by the mediots out there, like Isola and SAS, etc. If there are any hiccups next year and Lin is not here, the media will descend upon Melo like Fatty Felton at a Golden Corral and rip him to shreds. Not saying that this is right, but just statingthat the obvious agendas of the media pundits who cover the Knicks, and the need to sell papers will create the perfect storm of Melo bashing, which in the end will drag this team down. This will be amplified exponentially, if God forbid, Lin is playing like Lin during Linsanity. Of course, all of this doomsday scenario can be defused, if we are winning... and by winning I don't mean 1 game over .500 winning either. We all saw this with LeBron this year, it will be Melo's turn next year, because it will sell.

[Knicker23]

Oakley: "People are acting like he's the superstar when there's 3 or 4 guys in front of him"

He's talking about how they need a PG who going to make Melo, Amare, Chandler better.

[AmazingJason]

The expectation with or without Lin doesn't change much in 2012/13. Melo on offense and Tyson on defense (if healthy) will be enough to get us to the playoffs. All that really needs to happen for the crowd to go f*ing apesh*t (in a good way) is for us to win 2 playoff games. That's all. 2 games.

LOL, imagine us facing the Heat again in the 1st round and taking them to 6. That actually might be enough for most of us

[Jay10]

charles oakley just became another person for some to hate on this forum.

[blumatic]

Charles Oakley coming up. I hope he owns SAS.

He wants Fatton. Talks about Fatton's defense when the stats prove that Lin had a lower opponent PPP than Fatton last year. Talks about "experience" going up against Miami and Chicago.

Ghey.

disappointing

If Lin is gone. I will support Felton and hope that the vets on this team gets him straight.

[Fat Kat]

Ok guys, forget about hypothetical wagering and sig bets...if Lin is not matched tomorrow, I will purchase tickets for opening day in the lower section, run out onto the court during play with a sign that says "Don't Tase Me, Bro," and throw cupcakes at Felton and attempt to eat his flesh until the security staff puts me down.

This is in the running for best post of this series of threads. I can't believe how hilarious you've become.

I'm dead serious. My life coach is helping me realize that perhaps therapy and "talking about stuff" is for losers, it's all about TAKING ACTION.

Do it naked and you might make national news.

[Red Vines]

Charles Oakley coming up. I hope he owns SAS.

He wants Fatton. Talks about Fatton's defense when the stats prove that Lin had a lower opponent PPP than Fatton last year. Talks about "experience" going up against Miami and Chicago. Thinks Fatton and Kidd will bring the toughness to carry the Knicks to the FINALS.

Ghey.

Looks like Oakley deleted some tweets arguing with Isola, he was basically saying to match Lin.

[seren]

Oakley: "People are acting like he's the superstar when there's 3 or 4 guys in front of him"

He's talking about how they need a PG who going to make Melo, Amare, Chandler better.

Let's bring Marbury back. He can make them better.

[suicidedeuce]

MSG will be a morgue or a hostile environment. I promise you.

Its very, very easy to make a conditional prediction, when the condition is likely not to be met. That is the game you're playing.

Well, KNicks matched, but I WOULD have been right.

And even ignoring that for a moment.

When the Knicks beat the Lakers, to run their record to 12-15, do you think all 19k fans were operating under the premise the team was now a championship contender.

My guess is they were reacting to winning an exciting game, and a great story, rather than in their collective sophistication had determined, Jeremy Lin, starter for 4 games, was the missing piece to championship contention.

Knicks were the laughing stock of the league for 10 years. Fans kept coming, ready to embrace any win where they could find it.

They shouted M-V-P for Stat during the first 2 months of marginal winning after a 10 year moratorium.

They went crazy for comeback victories during 27 win series.

Your first mistake is assuming Lin is going.

Your second is ignoring recent history to predict the response if he does.

Two time loser

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Are you ready to convince yourself that Felton can lead the Knicks to a title? Simple question. Or are you saying that you will still invest even though you'd know the Knicks are stuck with this roster and stuck with no chance at a title?

I'll be 100% honest here.

The chances that the Knicks will win a title - either with or without Lin - are extremely slim no matter which way you decide to slice it.

As far as I'm concerned and given the fact that there is a team in Florida that will dominate the league until age and/or injury intervene, Ray Felton's chances and Lin's chances of leading NYK to a title are pretty much even.

I say that because while we know Felton's shortcomings and are familiar with them, Lin is a tabula rasa - a blank slate upon which people can project the rosiest scenario possible. If he continues to improve, he may lead the Knicks to the promised land. If he works on his game and overcomes his deficiencies, he'll be in the pantheon.

If, if, if. I look at it as an open question, while you and others accept Lin developing into a top PG as a matter of faith. I can't do that, because that is a setup for disappointment if he just becomes average or goes the route of so many other Knick prospects who showed big promise and failed to live up to it.

As a result, I am completely resigned to letting chips fall. If Lin is back, he's my dude. If they don't match and he goes to Texas, good luck to him in every circumstance except when he faces the Knicks.

If we end up having to ride with Ray Felton, I'm good. I want to see how Woodson integrates the Hoveround crew to augment the starters, and I'll be happy to see a full season without the ridiculous compression of last season.

Repeating what I said up top, we've got just about as good a chance at a title with Felton as with Lin, because the Three Amigos with Ray Ray are standing in the way of both of them.

I don't begrudge anyone's feelings toward Lin, but I'm looking at it differently from most of you.

Either way. NYK, ride or die.

A 1% chance of beating the Heat is better than a 0% chance.