PG: Team win - Frenchie w/ 41 - RJ first career game winner - Randle vs Fans

[Deeeez Knicks]

RJ is just not flashy. That is why a lot of people dont like him

[Clyde_Style]

RJ is just not flashy. That is why a lot of people dont like him

Yes, he lacks the sizzle many desire. I can live without that if he ripens into the player he can be

At least he now has his poster shot. That photo of him and Tatum airborne is a thing of beauty

[Deeeez Knicks]

RJ is just not flashy. That is why a lot of people dont like him

Yes, he lacks the sizzle many desire. I can live without that if he ripens into the player he can be

At least he now has his poster shot. That photo of him and Tatum airborne is a thing of beauty

Yea, no doubt he is going to be a good player.

[whocares1]

RJ is just not flashy. That is why a lot of people dont like him

Or because he’s just a role player. We are improving tho. We went from arguing Frank to RJ. Hopefully the next player we argue about in the future will be an actual star in the making.

[Chanel Bomber]

It's the same argument it's just two different mindsets. I mean it's a year by year argument really, last year RJ was a starter on a "good team" based on the very same definition of good team you just gave me, no? Knicks were 4th best team in the East, RJ was a starter that averaged 17/6/3 on good efficiency at only 20 years old which would be rare to see on any of those "good teams" this year as there isn't a 20 year old wing doing that. So the argument is just silly overall. RJ has had his struggles, but the Knicks were never built to be a good team and there's plenty blame to go around.

Guys like Lonzo and Lavine were never on good teams until this point of their careers, it's pretty obvious that roster construction matters. There needs to be a fit. RJ can very much fit in as a starter on a good team, but the pieces have to be in place. This Knicks team is just very off in terms of construction and guys production has been a reflection of that, even a guy like Evan Fournier who wasn't all that good to begin with is having a down year by his own standards.

I stated that I picked those teams "arbitrarily" because I had to start somewhere. I don't know that these are the 8 best teams in the NBA, nor do I consider them to be. This was just a pretty random selection.

I don't consider last year's Knicks team to be a good team. They were wiped out the floor in the first round. Good teams don't get embarrassed in the first round of the playoffs. They were an average team that overperformed and also had a string of luck in terms of injuries and COVID protocols. I've been consistent in saying that was an average team.

Also RJ did not score efficiently last year. He was actually very inefficient with a meager true shooting percentage of 53.5% (league average was 57.2%).

Lonzo and Lavine were never on good teams before this year, but Lavine was always a generational athlete, he always improved year after year, and always flashed potential as a shot creator. It was only a matter of time for him - which I've always said by the way. RJ doesn't have the tools to slide into that role - he likely never will if we're being realistic. RJ could slide into that Lonzo role for sure, which is arguably his best role, but Lonzo's better in that role on both sides of the ball at this moment in time. That's all I said, not that he could never be a starting 2-guard.

The pieces have to fit, you're right. But some pieces fit more easily with other pieces than others, and I don't see how RJ currently helps any roster construction with his inefficiency.

It sounds like you are running away from your very own statement though. You made the claim about good teams and who would fit where. Now you are talking about the playoffs, obviously we haven't gotten there yet so where will those teams be at the end of the playoffs is yet to be seen. Miami got wiped off the floor last season in the first round getting swept, Memphis got wiped out 4-1 and so on.

I agree with you, Knicks weren't a good team, but how far do you see some of those other teams advancing this year?

So use your guy Lavine, he basically needed Derozan and Lonzo Ball to join him to get anywhere, clearly not being able to carry a team anywhere on his own. Derozan couldn't even carry the Spurs anywhere the year before that but he's found better success on the Bulls. Lonzo was on a terrible Pelicans team with Zion and Ingram but found better fit with the Bulls. Vucevic was on the awful Magic team. Lavine needed a 32 year old experienced Derozan, a player who was no better than RJ at the same point in their careers, to come in and play at an MVP level to help him carry the Bulls to a good season up to this point. So if your boy Lavine has shown he needs help, clearly, why is it not the case for RJ? Like RJ has to be able to carry the team somewhere without needing talent around him? Of course he does, all players do. The talent needs to fit, chemistry needs to be there, players also develop at different stages of their careers so it has to come together at the right time. RJ is being treated like he's Frank Stinkilikina around here Dude is clearly our best young prospect in a while, if we were smart we would dump Randle and look for legit help to surround him with. If he ends up the next Demar Derozan or the next Dillon Brooks it wont matter he can still become a key contributor for a good team and we can find out eventually. One thing is for sure, Randle isn't getting us anywhere

Bro it's not that deep, I randomly took the 4 teams with the best records per Conference because I wanted to look at starting line-ups just to get a general impression and I didn't think more deeply about how to identify the teams I consider "good". If you consider that lazy, then that's fine, because it was lazy. And I do not know how far these teams will advance. But that doesn't just contradict the bigger point I was making.

Every player needs help.

The difference between Lavine and RJ is that Lavine has been efficient for most of his career, and highly efficient the last couple of seasons (while also carrying a heavier offensive burden). So it's easier to attribute his lack of team success to a lack of help and/or coaching. He always made it easy for pieces to fit around him because he has been efficient for most of his career - he's just one of those players who never had help around him (until this year). And it's not like DeRozan is an ideal fit, but Lavine makes it work because he's malleable and efficient in various playtypes. By comparison, RJ is wildly inefficient, so he's much harder to plug into a team, or to have teammates fit alongside him.

RJ is better than Frank but that's quite a low bar. Frank is barely an NBA player (if at all), so being better than him is not some accomplishment.

I think the Knicks would be wise to move both Randle and RJ. Their games are different but they share a lot of similarities. Neither player is efficient, and neither is easy to build around.

[NYKnickerbocker]

RJ needs to learn to mix up his approach in attacking. He almost always goes at full speed to the rim and goes right up. It's predictable, and easy to defend. Last night was a great example.

Changes in speed, pump fakes, pivot foot, all rarely used tools at his disposal. He rushes things but he's still only 21.

You often hear the phrase when a player matures "The game slows down" for them. This hasn't happened for him yet.

the one time he faked he actually caught Williams off guard too lmao and got a foul out of it. Love that getting his shot stuffed 4 times by the same guy didn’t deter him from attacking again. Just needs to have a smarter approach. He faked and another possession he did a pull up right in front of Williams. Hope it starts to click for the kid soon

[KnixtapeH20]

What's the deal with Thibs how can he be so clueless about how to use Mitch and get easy buckets via the pick & roll? RJ is clearly capable, nobody aside from IQ, RJ, Rose, Kemba or Deuce seem to even try to get the ball to Mitch.

Randle just doesn't have the passing ability. Burks doesn't even try. I dont get it. Ita simple simole simple **** basketball. Mitch is an automatic bucket on a lob.

He's even shown he can catch it down low, gather and finish or draw the foul most times.

[Chanel Bomber]

RJ is just not flashy. That is why a lot of people dont like him

What I don't like about him is that he's inefficient.

I couldn't care less about him being flashy or not.

[K_ick_God]

Least talked about part of the game, because of the thumb and the banker, is IQ. He had the best late game stuff.

[robillionaire]

Are you Fcking kidding us?

It was a great shot

Stop trying to undermine it

Actually I take it back, you didn’t even watch the game and just watched highlights so you don’t have all the information and didn’t see him get blocked at least 5 times or go 1-8 in the first half or 3-14 before that shot, go back and watch the game like I did and you’ll know he was really really bad the entire game

What the hell happened to you?

You can’t even find anything good to say about the best shot by a Knick in a decade

Oh I know, it is all about spite because you’re so Randicalized, so don’t bother responding

Fine and since you don’t even watch games don’t respond to me until you actually watch a game you wanna talk to me about

[Mister Ed]

He made that last shot but I think there was at least a certain degree of luck involved in that. The play to throw a lob for Mitch was also good. He did also miss 1-2 from the line when he could have put us up 4. He also got cooked by Tatum when he tied the game. It was a mixed bag. Thankfully the shot went in

Are you Fcking kidding us?

It was a great shot

Stop trying to undermine it

Actually I take it back, you didn’t even watch the game and just watched highlights so you don’t have all the information and didn’t see him get blocked at least 5 times or go 1-8 in the first half or 3-14 before that shot, go back and watch the game like I did and you’ll know he was really really bad the entire game

It was actually one of RJ's most pathetic embarrasing games as a Knick - but he hit the big shot - so you cheer and move on - take the win. I support RJ 100%, hes a good young pro that works hard, like the whole team does. It's all about wins.

[robillionaire]

Are you Fcking kidding us?

It was a great shot

Stop trying to undermine it

Actually I take it back, you didn’t even watch the game and just watched highlights so you don’t have all the information and didn’t see him get blocked at least 5 times or go 1-8 in the first half or 3-14 before that shot, go back and watch the game like I did and you’ll know he was really really bad the entire game

It was actually one of RJ's most pathetic embarrasing games as a Knick - but he hit the big shot - so you cheer and move on - take the win. I support RJ 100%, hes a good young pro that works hard, like the whole team does. It's all about wins.

yeah, pretty much. I’m still holding out hope they salvage the season and continue to play hard and compete. I don’t want to watch a tank.

[Clyde_Style]

Actually I take it back, you didn’t even watch the game and just watched highlights so you don’t have all the information and didn’t see him get blocked at least 5 times or go 1-8 in the first half or 3-14 before that shot, go back and watch the game like I did and you’ll know he was really really bad the entire game

What the hell happened to you?

You can’t even find anything good to say about the best shot by a Knick in a decade

Oh I know, it is all about spite because you’re so Randicalized, so don’t bother responding

Fine and since you don’t even watch games don’t respond to me until you actually watch a game you wanna talk to me about

Oooooo, terms of engagement. I watched the highlight reels of the last three games, BFG. But thanks for sharing your imaginary rules

[KnixtapeH20]

Least talked about part of the game, because of the thumb and the banker, is IQ. He had the best late game stuff.

Yea w.o him we dont really even start the come back.

Quick needs to practice 80,000 layups this off season. Ive never heard of a guard that doesnt know how to make a layup. He's 6'3" That high layup floater off the glass needs to turn into a layup attempt. Find a way to get to the line and draw contact. He's automatic from the there.

[KnixtapeH20]

Oh did yall see Randle's wife when he scored down low and took down 2 celtics? He was yelling at the crowd the entire way down the court at the top of his lungs, his wife was looking at him all concerned.

Randle defintely letting the pressure of NY get to him.

[G_K_F]

Actually I take it back, you didn’t even watch the game and just watched highlights so you don’t have all the information and didn’t see him get blocked at least 5 times or go 1-8 in the first half or 3-14 before that shot, go back and watch the game like I did and you’ll know he was really really bad the entire game

It was actually one of RJ's most pathetic embarrasing games as a Knick - but he hit the big shot - so you cheer and move on - take the win. I support RJ 100%, hes a good young pro that works hard, like the whole team does. It's all about wins.

yeah, pretty much. I’m still holding out hope they salvage the season and continue to play hard and compete. I don’t want to watch a tank.

The season doesn’t need to be ‘salvaged’. We’re doing very well considering our bad luck.

Randle is back and better than ever and ready to lead this team to a deep playoff run. Very excited for the future. I really can’t wait to see the Garden rocking again like old times.

[RHODEY]

I think you still need a # 1 option, but if you get another alpha that plays team ball and, in particular, is copasetic with pushing the pace, then RJ could be a dynamic # 2. Standing around in boring half court ISO ball is a detriment to his natural inclinations, so it is not so much a matter of building around him, but with him. When playing with the right teammates, RJ is a guy who will make those around him better, not worse.

If RJ becomes consistent, there is still more upside than he is given credit for. His high water marks so far show that scoring 25 points in a game is not really that big a deal for him when he gets in a rhythm.

Well, he rarely gets in a rhythm.

So who's this magical "alpha that plays team ball" who helps RJ AND who benefits from RJ's style of play?

Jokic? Curry?

And are we sure they need his 33% from 3 and lack of ability to finish at the rim?

Why would they want him over another average 3&D wing who can play passable defense and not shoot well from 3?

RJ is not helping any team win at the moment. The eye test suggests it, the statistical evidence proves it.

We're just reaching with those "he just needs the right cast of players around him to make them better", and deep down you know it. Because you're scrambling to find something good in hypothetical scenarios that are tailored to his individual needs. That's how you know it's not happening in real life.

Deep down I know you don't know what I know. I think you would say the same thing to me about you.

I think RJ when he's playing well is a terrific player to have and I've been upfront about his inconsistency.

I also know he was excellent last year after a slow start and this year has been more up and down so far, but he has shown specific skills improvements this season that were not evident last year.

If he puts it all together he'll be an excellent player. I'm willing to wait it out.

Dude in only 21. There are several of future studs like Derozan, Kahwi , and Middleton didn't make the big leap until after there 3rd seasons. All those guys were up and down their first 3 seasons too.

[Adelheid]

once the game truly slows down for rowan he just might breakout

[HEZI]

I stated that I picked those teams "arbitrarily" because I had to start somewhere. I don't know that these are the 8 best teams in the NBA, nor do I consider them to be. This was just a pretty random selection.

I don't consider last year's Knicks team to be a good team. They were wiped out the floor in the first round. Good teams don't get embarrassed in the first round of the playoffs. They were an average team that overperformed and also had a string of luck in terms of injuries and COVID protocols. I've been consistent in saying that was an average team.

Also RJ did not score efficiently last year. He was actually very inefficient with a meager true shooting percentage of 53.5% (league average was 57.2%).

Lonzo and Lavine were never on good teams before this year, but Lavine was always a generational athlete, he always improved year after year, and always flashed potential as a shot creator. It was only a matter of time for him - which I've always said by the way. RJ doesn't have the tools to slide into that role - he likely never will if we're being realistic. RJ could slide into that Lonzo role for sure, which is arguably his best role, but Lonzo's better in that role on both sides of the ball at this moment in time. That's all I said, not that he could never be a starting 2-guard.

The pieces have to fit, you're right. But some pieces fit more easily with other pieces than others, and I don't see how RJ currently helps any roster construction with his inefficiency.

It sounds like you are running away from your very own statement though. You made the claim about good teams and who would fit where. Now you are talking about the playoffs, obviously we haven't gotten there yet so where will those teams be at the end of the playoffs is yet to be seen. Miami got wiped off the floor last season in the first round getting swept, Memphis got wiped out 4-1 and so on.

I agree with you, Knicks weren't a good team, but how far do you see some of those other teams advancing this year?

So use your guy Lavine, he basically needed Derozan and Lonzo Ball to join him to get anywhere, clearly not being able to carry a team anywhere on his own. Derozan couldn't even carry the Spurs anywhere the year before that but he's found better success on the Bulls. Lonzo was on a terrible Pelicans team with Zion and Ingram but found better fit with the Bulls. Vucevic was on the awful Magic team. Lavine needed a 32 year old experienced Derozan, a player who was no better than RJ at the same point in their careers, to come in and play at an MVP level to help him carry the Bulls to a good season up to this point. So if your boy Lavine has shown he needs help, clearly, why is it not the case for RJ? Like RJ has to be able to carry the team somewhere without needing talent around him? Of course he does, all players do. The talent needs to fit, chemistry needs to be there, players also develop at different stages of their careers so it has to come together at the right time. RJ is being treated like he's Frank Stinkilikina around here Dude is clearly our best young prospect in a while, if we were smart we would dump Randle and look for legit help to surround him with. If he ends up the next Demar Derozan or the next Dillon Brooks it wont matter he can still become a key contributor for a good team and we can find out eventually. One thing is for sure, Randle isn't getting us anywhere

Bro it's not that deep, I randomly took the 4 teams with the best records per Conference because I wanted to look at starting line-ups just to get a general impression and I didn't think more deeply about how to identify the teams I consider "good". If you consider that lazy, then that's fine, because it was lazy. And I do not know how far these teams will advance. But that doesn't just contradict the bigger point I was making.

Every player needs help.

The difference between Lavine and RJ is that Lavine has been efficient for most of his career, and highly efficient the last couple of seasons (while also carrying a heavier offensive burden). So it's easier to attribute his lack of team success to a lack of help and/or coaching. He always made it easy for pieces to fit around him because he has been efficient for most of his career - he's just one of those players who never had help around him (until this year). And it's not like DeRozan is an ideal fit, but Lavine makes it work because he's malleable and efficient in various playtypes. By comparison, RJ is wildly inefficient, so he's much harder to plug into a team, or to have teammates fit alongside him.

RJ is better than Frank but that's quite a low bar. Frank is barely an NBA player (if at all), so being better than him is not some accomplishment.

I think the Knicks would be wise to move both Randle and RJ. Their games are different but they share a lot of similarities. Neither player is efficient, and neither is easy to build around.

I was trying to dive further into your statement about he can’t start on good teams. Now we aren’t even sure what a good team is but RJ can’t start on it though

Forget Lavine, who has carried the Bulls? Not Lavine but Derozan so has Derozan always been efficient? See how you are ignoring the rest of the NBA and focusing on like 1 or two guys as if these type of players make up the whole league. Lavine and Derozan are two different type of players too but you are so stuck on one and ignoring the other like the other guy hasn’t been their key to success.

You are seriously underrating RJs abilities, acting like he can’t get a shot off against defenders when he’s done so time and time again. Yes he needs to become more consistent but give me a break let’s not pretend like he hasn’t given opponents the business.

And another thing you keep ignoring is the fact that the team lacks cohesiveness, something very crucial to the success of a team. They showed more of it last season than this year and it’s why guys numbers were better. This year there’s been more dysfunction on and off the floor. RJ has still found ways to show serious glimpses of potential despite all that and yes he’s done so in numerous ways

[robillionaire]

What the hell happened to you?

You can’t even find anything good to say about the best shot by a Knick in a decade

Oh I know, it is all about spite because you’re so Randicalized, so don’t bother responding

Fine and since you don’t even watch games don’t respond to me until you actually watch a game you wanna talk to me about

Oooooo, terms of engagement. I watched the highlight reels of the last three games, BFG. But thanks for sharing your imaginary rules

No it’s not a rule it’s just the very real terms of me responding back to you any further at this point which I’m not obligated to do

Imagine if we were all in a book club and you decided you weren’t going to read the books anymore but watched a quick synopsis on YouTube right before you showed up, and then as I was sharing my opinion about the book to someone else you decided to constantly condescend to me and troll with things like “what the hell happened to you” and accuse me of some kind of spite against the author, because I didn’t like the book, when you didn’t even bother to do the assignment. So then I have to try to explain in detail what I didn’t like about it when you have no idea what I’m even talking about. I’m sure you can imagine it would be very frustrating to deal with this kind behavior. So if you’re going to continue to condescend and bait me at least read the frigging book.