Around the NBA part 2

[K_ick_God]

the knicks are not pursuing any major trades. they're not sure they wanna cut james white for kenyon martin. you think they're gonna deal half the roster away ?

KG is still stabbing himself over the summer, just when i thought he was recovering nicely, he wants to do a 6 player out trade for two that are barely starter material, and a waiver candidate.

Who's the waiver candidate? Dunleavy has rounded himself into a 40% 3-point shooter who can put up points and plays intelligent basketball. If Gallo ever reaches Mike's current level, I'll be impressed. And this from someone who made fun of MDJ back to his years in Golden State.

He was a highly ranked prospect who isn't a star BUT learned to mold his game to help his team. I wish I could say the same about Felton who still fancies himself a go-to-scoring lottery pick and keeps putting up ill-advised shots to prove it to himself. Don't forget that Felton's playoff performances have been utter disasters. He will get worse, not better, when the stakes are high.

[Fat Kat]

Hurts our depth but gives us a PG who can score and pass. B.J. is an underrated passer with a great sense of the game. You can be a volume scorer AND have BBIQ. In fact, Brandon is that kind of guy. Starks was too.

I also like Ilyasova.

The bold describes Felton just the same without giving up all the backcourt depth in the process.

No comment about Ersan, other than he got paid.....

You think Felton is as good as Brandon or even in the ballpark?

Yes. Yes he is.

What exactly does Jennings do that is special? I'm curious.

[Thugger HBC]

the knicks are not pursuing any major trades. they're not sure they wanna cut james white for kenyon martin. you think they're gonna deal half the roster away ?

KG is still stabbing himself over the summer, just when i thought he was recovering nicely, he wants to do a 6 player out trade for two that are barely starter material, and a waiver candidate.

Who's the waiver candidate? Dunleavy has rounded himself into a 40% 3-point shooter who can put up points and plays intelligent basketball. If Gallo ever reaches Mike's current level, I'll be impressed. And this from someone who made fun of MDJ back to his years in Golden State.

He was a highly ranked prospect who isn't a star BUT learned to mold his game to help his team. I wish I could say the same about Felton who still fancies himself a go-to-scoring lottery pick and keeps putting up ill-advised shots to prove it to himself. Don't forget that Felton's playoff performances have been utter disasters. He will get worse, not better, when the stakes are high.

Is this your way of ranting over Felton, it's fair game in here, but we normally use it to bash non Knicks.

It is ironic that the negative you see in him you dont see in Jennings.

[Wolfgang]

You don't have Vazquez in the top 15, Knicksgod? That guy has been balling lately.

[K_ick_God]

Yes. Yes he is.

What exactly does Jennings do that is special? I'm curious.

Main things I've seen:

1. He has tricks around the hoop. Great layup skills.

2. Really good passer. Yeah he likes to shoot but he wants to win and can pass and distribute with the best of them. He understands and feels the game.

3. He has the all-important clutch gene.

[K_ick_God]

You don't have Vazquez in the top 15, Knicksgod? That guy has been balling lately.

Actually I really like him. But I've been watching a lot less lately and missed him. My oversight. He's better than Dragic, who really hasn't had a very good season. Yeah definitely up there among those 5-15 type guys who as I mentioned are really pretty even.

[j4remi]

Wow KG...I can't believe how much I disagree with your PG rankings.

[Thugger HBC]

Where is Conley Lowry and Calderon and Nash on that list?

[K_ick_God]

Is this your way of ranting over Felton, it's fair game in here, but we normally use it to bash non Knicks.

It is ironic that the negative you see in him you dont see in Jennings.

I mean yeah, I think Felton is a bum. But I'm not saying it to antagonize anyone, and haven't and won't be saying it regularly because Knicks fans don't deserve to hear it ad nauseum, but I mean it and in the context of this debate, I think it's relevant: Knicks need a really good PG. Maybe B.J. is no All-Star but he's good. Has a high ceiling still. And he's playing very well this season.

He wants NY.

He's way better than what we have because honestly and truly, I feel Felton is trash. Similar to his one season with us, his overall numbers are living off of his hot start and don't reflect how poorly he was after that hot start. He was truly abysmal before he got hurt. Unacceptable really. He's not a quality starter at all.

Well I guess that's all I need to say.

[j4remi]

Where is Conley Lowry and Calderon and Nash on that list?

And TP is arguable top 5 imo.

[Pharmcat]

huge jennings fan, but I dont see a match here

I dont think felton gets traded again, he seems to like it here and the others like him

[K_ick_God]

Where is Conley Lowry and Calderon and Nash on that list?

Calderon is having a good year but is a proven loser at that position. Nash is still good but not worthy of mention. You'd take Nash for Melo's next 2-4 prime years over Brandon?

I think Conley is solid but worse. Lowry I mentioned. Until he can lead the Raptors to wins, he's behind Brandon. Maybe better than Dragic though. I did the list on the fly. It's far from perfect but I think Brandon is *about* top 10 with the asterisk that he's clutcher and more of a winner and special player than some guys ahead of him (really don't believe that strongly in Holiday for instance but I tried to be fair since his numbers ARE great).

If Knicks could get a guy like Vasquez for cheap, that'd be great. But not happening. We already had that luck.

[Thugger HBC]

Is this your way of ranting over Felton, it's fair game in here, but we normally use it to bash non Knicks.

It is ironic that the negative you see in him you dont see in Jennings.

I mean yeah, I think Felton is a bum. But I'm not saying it to antagonize anyone, and haven't and won't be saying it regularly because Knicks fans don't deserve to hear it ad nauseum, but I mean it and in the context of this debate, I think it's relevant: Knicks need a really good PG. Maybe B.J. is no All-Star but he's good. Has a high ceiling still. And he's playing very well this season.

He wants NY.

He's way better than what we have because honestly and truly, I feel Felton is trash. Similar to his one season with us, his overall numbers are living off of his hot start and don't reflect how poorly he was after that hot start. He was truly abysmal before he got hurt. Unacceptable really. He's not a quality starter at all.

Well I guess that's all I need to say.

But Jennings isn't better, and has actually gotten worse over the years. I dont care how much he wants NY, and I honestly doubt that he wants to play for the Knicks but rather the big light market.

Seriously who's wanting to play in Milwaukee?

He's not an ugrade over Felton and certainly not worth given up the entire bench for.

[Thugger HBC]

Where is Conley Lowry and Calderon and Nash on that list?

And TP is arguable top 5 imo.

I was just looking at who wasn't on the list but Jennings was.

I didn't even get that far.

[Fat Kat]

The tricks around the hoop, while exciting, don't help his .400 shooting %.

His really good passing leave him a full assist under Felton, and I can only remember one Jennings game winner. That was against the Cavs. If there are more, I just can't remember them.

[K_ick_God]

The tricks around the hoop, while exciting, don't help his .400 shooting %.

His really good passing leave him a full assist under Felton, and I can only remember one Jennings game winner. That was against the Cavs. If there are more, I just can't remember them.

I don't care about the tricks under the hoop being exciting, though they are, but crafty layup skills separate a lot of players from lesser players. He has a healthy slice of Rondo around the basket. Paul Pierce has lived off of keeping defenders off balance near the hole. Also away from the hole.

I'll take my chances with guys who know how to get off their shot around the cup in crafty ways. Lin has some of it too by the way. But Brandon and Rondo have long arms and can swing in multiple ways to make a tough basket. That's a huge thing in my scouting book.

[Thugger HBC]

Where is Conley Lowry and Calderon and Nash on that list?

Calderon is having a good year but is a proven loser at that position. Nash is still good but not worthy of mention. You'd take Nash for Melo's next 2-4 prime years over Brandon?

I think Conley is solid but worse. Lowry I mentioned. Until he can lead the Raptors to wins, he's behind Brandon. Maybe better than Dragic though. I did the list on the fly. It's far from perfect but I think Brandon is *about* top 10 with the asterisk that he's clutcher and more of a winner and special player than some guys ahead of him (really don't believe that strongly in Holiday for instance but I tried to be fair since his numbers ARE great).

If Knicks could get a guy like Vasquez for cheap, that'd be great. But not happening. We already had that luck.

Ok, but where are these clutch and winner and special moments? How come I really dont recall any?

[K_ick_God]

My on-the-fly list is not meant to be exact but just a decent thumbnail sketch because Brandon is not one of the worst starters in the league. No way.

Throw Calderon and Nash in there on my list if you like. Who would really want those guys for a 2-4 year stretch where you need to help Melo beat the Heat? I'd like Calderon over Felton but eh. No biggie. Calderon has been a dud as a starter even if his ATO ratio is great. Conley is good too -- but not that talented and not great. I'd definitely want B.J. over Conley. Nash, come on lol. He can still do it in spots but so what. Does his walker and neurological testing kit come with him in a trade? Please.

Someone correctly pointed out that I left off Grievis whose numbers are terrific.

I also think I'm underselling Stephen Curry when I look back over my list. Dude is hitting a ridiculous 46% from 3. He's ahead of Parker and Irving too if I do it over. OK.

Missing the forest for the trees to focus on a couple omissions or incorrect ordering.

[Fat Kat]

The tricks around the hoop, while exciting, don't help his .400 shooting %.

His really good passing leave him a full assist under Felton, and I can only remember one Jennings game winner. That was against the Cavs. If there are more, I just can't remember them.

I don't care about the tricks under the hoop being exciting, though they are, but crafty layup skills separate a lot of players from lesser players. He has a healthy slice of Rondo around the basket. Paul Pierce has lived off of keeping defenders off balance near the hole. Also away from the hole.

I'll take my chances with guys who know how to get off their shot around the cup in crafty ways. Lin has some of it too by the way. But Brandon and Rondo have long arms and can swing in multiple ways to make a tough basket. That's a huge thing in my scouting book.

Difference is, Rondo makes his shots. Jennings doesn't. He shoots less than 40% For his career. Nothing crafty about that. He shouldn't be in the same conversation with guys like Rondo.

[Thugger HBC]

The last time i check Jennings and Felton are pretty even around the rim in %'s.

Dont care about the skill, i care about the conversion....they both only covert 54% of their shots round the rim and most of Jennings shot dont come from there, thus his 40% from the filed.