Knicks Get Reddish per Woj

[thebuzzardman]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

I'm concerned, but it's also possible the Hawks valued a low first round pick and what can be done with it in trades over Cam.
Or, the Hawks feel they can get another cost controlled player as good as Cam with that pick. Which is concerning.
It's also possible the Hawks have it wrong about Cam and he gets better or the Knicks are able to get him better.
Those are definite "ifs"

Cam wasn't that expensive and if the Hawks felt he had value, you could say they could put Cam into a trade the same way they can put the Charlotte->Knicks 2022 pick into a trade. They may have some tactical/strategic reasons for wanting a pick to move over Cam.

[robillionaire]

No Ryan Arcidiacono appreciation thread

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2156418

You guys never let me down. even typed a whole paragraph about it. Well done

[Deeeez Knicks]

the pick is also top 18 protected for 2022. whose to say it even conveys this year ?

It may never convey and end up being 2 2nds. It was heavily protected which is why it didn't have a lot of value

it might not but it's lottery protected, top 14, for both 2024/2025. so they just have to make the playoffs one of those years. with the young players they have it probably will then. if the stay where they are it would actually convey this year.

Maybe. Even if at worst its #15 for Cam and a 2nd rounder it doesn't seem too bad though. Even most anaylst's around the league who usually trash the Knicks say its decent value for the Knicks. It depends what you think of Cam. I think he still has some potential to be solid, but could just suck. I view him as about the same as a pick.

I am sure if Cam doesnt work out everyone will complain and there's a decent chance he doesn't. Also a decent chance that pick wouldnt work out either, or a chance the 2nd rounder works out. They were probably trading this pick anyway so am ok with it being for a player on a rookie deal that still has some potential and fills a need

[Oscirus]

And on top of that the knicks value late picks so much that they legit gave away one at te draft for a pick that'll likely be worse. Maybe if this was a different front office we can debate the merits of first rounders, but this particular front office doesnt value them at all

[Clyde_Style]

The Charlotte pick could've been a throw-in that helps a trade for a young player who's actually good, like Haliburton.

Now, I don't know to what extent Haliburton's actually available, and maybe Cam will break his own pattern of efficiency and ball out with the Knicks.

But I'm not a fan of trading assets for mediocre players.

I'd rather have packaged the Charlotte pick, Obi plus the Dallas pick for Hali (not sure the Kings take it but it's just a general idea). Then you get a young player who actually helps your team and who can also be traded at a later stage for a star if need be.

I don't know.

at the same damn time

yeah, now that i slept on it i like it less. i'll give him a chance. we probably won't know if this worked out until sometime next season.

You two never really like anything, so there no real revelation here.

You obviously don’t know that Sham calls his teddy bear “Mitch”

[robillionaire]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

I'm concerned, but it's also possible the Hawks valued a low first round pick and what can be done with it in trades over Cam.
Or, the Hawks feel they can get another cost controlled player as good as Cam with that pick. Which is concerning.
It's also possible the Hawks have it wrong about Cam and he gets better or the Knicks are able to get him better.
Those are definite "ifs"

Cam wasn't that expensive and if the Hawks felt he had value, you could say they could put Cam into a trade the same way they can put the Charlotte->Knicks 2022 pick into a trade. They may have some tactical/strategic reasons for wanting a pick to move over Cam.

They saw Knox’s 18 point game last month and wanted to unleash his untapped potential, it’s that simple

[nedleeds]

1) The Front Office is betting on the future. It's not a win-now move.

Um. No it's the exact opposite. If they traded a veteran for Reddish it would no be a win now move. The not win now would have been any of the following

* make the pick
* trade the pick forward near or on draft night to another team looking to move around and pick up additional picks
* package the pick with our pick and the Dallas pick to move up ourselves and get a player we've scouted and like

2) The fact he is the former teammate of RJ can be a sign RJ is near untouchable in the roster construction.

They spent 4 months together doing nothing spectacular 3 years ago. Trading for one of the worst shooting players from that draft who has largely been awful affecting the tradeable status of another player is a reach.

3) We have a logjam in the wings now (RJ, Evan, Burks, IQ, Grimes, and Cam) and no starting PG. We can wait for consolidation trades soon.

Nobody was offering anything near our offer (2 2nds from LA) so I doubt Reddish ends up in a consolidation trade.

The expectation is that we will extend Cam using their bird rights for the 23/24 season.
60/4 for Cam taking advantage of the RFA status

Are you literally a crazy person? This dude has been abyssmal. You are pre-offering him $40 million? What in the **** 9 hells are you talking about? Jesus christ, this is why Knick fans get a reputation for complete delusion about their new players. People cumming in their shorts over 1 legged Kemba was peak. Pre-paying a guy who shot significantly worse than Kevin Knox $40 million is over the cliff and into the river. Holy ****.

[j4remi]

Honestly I'd rather have used the pick to TRIM the roster for instance, eg to help get rid of Noel or Fournier.

The Knicks have too many players who are mediocre.

I'm not worried about not being able to accommodate a late first round draft pick (which we were able to turn into IQ and Grimes the last two years) because of the pile of mediocrity that we have.

In fact most of them should go.

We'll see if Cam warrants the "swing for the fences", "special" labels. I don't have a definitive opinion about that, but the combination of his inefficiency, questionable motor and desire for more touches doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for me. I can respect anybody for projecting him as a special talent in spite of his numbers though (saying this seriously, not sarcastically), it's a bold take.

I agree that using the pick to trim the roster (if possible) would be a good direction to go. But that's just not being realistic about the goals that this FO has for the team. They want to compete for the playoffs right now. They're not dumping salaries to that end and I don't think a late-first and an unwanted contract are bringing back help.

In terms of "swing for the fences," the final outcome doesn't change the nature of the move. His talent and upside are legit whether he realizes the potential or not. There's also a fair possibility that he could become just a solid role player and STILL be better than whoever that traded draft pick becomes. He doesn't have to become "special" for the trade to be a swing for the fences, it's a swing for the fences because there's untapped potential there that comes with his size, athleticism, and game.

And I also think it's worth mentioning that "the Knicks have too many players who are mediocre" is why you don't really need to be using the 22nd pick in the draft desperately. You're more likely to land another mediocre player for the collection than you are to find your diamond in the rough. This FO has done a nice job finding talent in the range of that pick, but I don't think I'd project any of those guys to become stars. I'm not even sold that any of them are definitely gonna become starters yet. They fall to that range for a reason.

[DowNY]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

I'm pretty confident you are wrong on this, the hawks traded him because they weren't going to sign him long term..they also have higher priced vets making a lot of money that are getting playing time over him to begin with..nothing to do with red flags, but again, as I stated before, the knicks got him for free. if they traded Grimes for him, that would have been a different story

A protected first round pick is not "for free".

Grimes was a late first round draft pick. You're trading away something that's the equivalent of Grimes for an inefficient young player who's soon going to be eligible for an extension, and who wants a bigger role. That's the formula.

If Reddish becomes a positive contributor within the next 18 months, that changes everything. I don't think there's any reason to be confident that he will, but you never know.

So you’re confident in the front office acquiring protected first round picks and selecting underrated players late in the draft but not acquiring actual players already in the league?
Didn’t they flip DSJ for D Rose last year? No faith in the front office doing their homework on this move?
Dudes have like 10 2nd rd picks in the next 2 seasons, you think we’re keeping all of those too? I mean if we are, then wouldn’t you have faith in them selecting the next 10 Mitchell Robinsons or even better, trading up into the late 1st with a bunch of those picks?

Again, the pick was non lottery guaranteed. We’re a team in position to take risks (especially when we still have our own picks and Mavs next year). That flimsy Hornets protected pick isn’t going to make or break a deal for a “star”. Look at what the Nets and Lakers did with acquiring stars. If it’s a deal to get done, it’ll get done and again, it’s not like the Knicks don’t have any assets. All these young players (Quick, Grimes, Cam) probably have value of mid 1sts anyway.

Just saying, to harp on this trade as anything other than a good move until proven otherwise is dramatic and I’m not even a Cam advocate. I was crapping on him for weeks while people here were capping and saying he was better than RJ this season.

[god shammgod]

The Charlotte pick could've been a throw-in that helps a trade for a young player who's actually good, like Haliburton.

Now, I don't know to what extent Haliburton's actually available, and maybe Cam will break his own pattern of efficiency and ball out with the Knicks.

But I'm not a fan of trading assets for mediocre players.

I'd rather have packaged the Charlotte pick, Obi plus the Dallas pick for Hali (not sure the Kings take it but it's just a general idea). Then you get a young player who actually helps your team and who can also be traded at a later stage for a star if need be.

I don't know.

at the same damn time

yeah, now that i slept on it i like it less. i'll give him a chance. we probably won't know if this worked out until sometime next season.

You two never really like anything, so there no real revelation here.

they only really got me involved with the pick is worthless talk. i can't abide that. i care more about someone saying that than this trade

[2010]

The Los Angeles Lakers offered the Atlanta Hawks two second round picks for Cam Reddish before he was traded to the New York Knicks.

Reddish had been available since before the draft with the request of a first round pick.

The Hawks also had conversations with the Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks also sought Quentin Grimes from the Knicks but the deal was eventually Reddish and Solomon Hill for Charlotte's first round pick and Kevin Knox.

Everyone’s beloved Lakers were attempting to acquire Reddish too. Is he still not worth the price of acquisition?

[evevale]

1) The Front Office is betting on the future. It's not a win-now move.

Um. No it's the exact opposite. If they traded a veteran for Reddish it would no be a win now move. The not win now would have been any of the following

* make the pick
* trade the pick forward near or on draft night to another team looking to move around and pick up additional picks
* package the pick with our pick and the Dallas pick to move up ourselves and get a player we've scouted and like

2) The fact he is the former teammate of RJ can be a sign RJ is near untouchable in the roster construction.

They spent 4 months together doing nothing spectacular 3 years ago. Trading for one of the worst shooting players from that draft who has largely been awful affecting the tradeable status of another player is a reach.

3) We have a logjam in the wings now (RJ, Evan, Burks, IQ, Grimes, and Cam) and no starting PG. We can wait for consolidation trades soon.

Nobody was offering anything near our offer (2 2nds from LA) so I doubt Reddish ends up in a consolidation trade.

The expectation is that we will extend Cam using their bird rights for the 23/24 season.
60/4 for Cam taking advantage of the RFA status

Are you literally a crazy person? This dude has been abyssmal. You are pre-offering him $40 million? What in the **** 9 hells are you talking about? Jesus christ, this is why Knick fans get a reputation for complete delusion about their new players. People cumming in their shorts over 1 legged Kemba was peak. Pre-paying a guy who shot significantly worse than Kevin Knox $40 million is over the cliff and into the river. Holy ****.

i'm not taking any bets on this fight but this post is funny

i see the potential of a mini rhodey vs. jimmit rivalry budding from this exchange ...

[Clyde_Style]

The Los Angeles Lakers offered the Atlanta Hawks two second round picks for Cam Reddish before he was traded to the New York Knicks.

Reddish had been available since before the draft with the request of a first round pick.

The Hawks also had conversations with the Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks also sought Quentin Grimes from the Knicks but the deal was eventually Reddish and Solomon Hill for Charlotte's first round pick and Kevin Knox.

Everyone’s beloved Lakers were attempting to acquire Reddish too. Is he still not worth the price of acquisition?

That was to replace Kuzma as Jeannie’s new pretty boy

[DowNY]

first of all a heavily protected late 1st in a week draft while the knicks already loaded with young players would likely have to trade that pick at some point just for roster flexibility isn't really much of an asset

Do you consider Grimes and IQ to be assets?

Because that Charlotte pick is pretty much on par with them as an asset. IQ's value is probably a bit higher, but still.

Is this a joke? Grimes and IQ have shown they can be contributors in this league, they are much higher assets than a late 1st in a weak draft, Grimes in this years draft would probably be ten to 15 range, and IQ based on his play would be top 10

Lol yeah, not sure how someone can say pick 19 in this upcoming draft (which isn’t even guaranteed to convey) is more valuable than Quickley or Grimes at this point.
These guys have proven to be capable league guys. Also, not everyone in the late 1st end up being good. Who were originally selected with our picks? Kai Jones & that overrated point guard for the clippers?
I’ll take Cam Reddish over those type of players.

[robillionaire]

1) The Front Office is betting on the future. It's not a win-now move.

Um. No it's the exact opposite. If they traded a veteran for Reddish it would no be a win now move. The not win now would have been any of the following

* make the pick
* trade the pick forward near or on draft night to another team looking to move around and pick up additional picks
* package the pick with our pick and the Dallas pick to move up ourselves and get a player we've scouted and like

2) The fact he is the former teammate of RJ can be a sign RJ is near untouchable in the roster construction.

They spent 4 months together doing nothing spectacular 3 years ago. Trading for one of the worst shooting players from that draft who has largely been awful affecting the tradeable status of another player is a reach.

3) We have a logjam in the wings now (RJ, Evan, Burks, IQ, Grimes, and Cam) and no starting PG. We can wait for consolidation trades soon.

Nobody was offering anything near our offer (2 2nds from LA) so I doubt Reddish ends up in a consolidation trade.

The expectation is that we will extend Cam using their bird rights for the 23/24 season.
60/4 for Cam taking advantage of the RFA status

Are you literally a crazy person? This dude has been abyssmal. You are pre-offering him $40 million? What in the **** 9 hells are you talking about? Jesus christ, this is why Knick fans get a reputation for complete delusion about their new players. People cumming in their shorts over 1 legged Kemba was peak. Pre-paying a guy who shot significantly worse than Kevin Knox $40 million is over the cliff and into the river. Holy ****.

2 seconds is kinda near our offer. The late first rounder we sent is so protected that it might turn into 2 seconds if the hornets don’t play well. Plus we also got a 2nd rounder back from them. Our offer might be SLIGHTLY better but hey, that’s why we got the deal and the Lakers didn’t

Knox was leaving for nothing in a few months anyway so not really a factor.

Cam has undoubtedly sucked but there’s still potential for upside as he’s been an above average 3pts shooter this season at 38% which is a tremendous improvement from his first two seasons so he’s at least trending the right way

[Clyde_Style]

1) The Front Office is betting on the future. It's not a win-now move.

Um. No it's the exact opposite. If they traded a veteran for Reddish it would no be a win now move. The not win now would have been any of the following

* make the pick
* trade the pick forward near or on draft night to another team looking to move around and pick up additional picks
* package the pick with our pick and the Dallas pick to move up ourselves and get a player we've scouted and like

2) The fact he is the former teammate of RJ can be a sign RJ is near untouchable in the roster construction.

They spent 4 months together doing nothing spectacular 3 years ago. Trading for one of the worst shooting players from that draft who has largely been awful affecting the tradeable status of another player is a reach.

3) We have a logjam in the wings now (RJ, Evan, Burks, IQ, Grimes, and Cam) and no starting PG. We can wait for consolidation trades soon.

Nobody was offering anything near our offer (2 2nds from LA) so I doubt Reddish ends up in a consolidation trade.

The expectation is that we will extend Cam using their bird rights for the 23/24 season.
60/4 for Cam taking advantage of the RFA status

Are you literally a crazy person? This dude has been abyssmal. You are pre-offering him $40 million? What in the **** 9 hells are you talking about? Jesus christ, this is why Knick fans get a reputation for complete delusion about their new players. People cumming in their shorts over 1 legged Kemba was peak. Pre-paying a guy who shot significantly worse than Kevin Knox $40 million is over the cliff and into the river. Holy ****.

i'm not taking any bets on this fight but this post is funny

i see the potential of a mini rhodey vs. jimmit rivalry budding from this exchange ...

I’m predicting a chocolate vs. peanut butter confrontation that turns into a love match

[thebuzzardman]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

I'm concerned, but it's also possible the Hawks valued a low first round pick and what can be done with it in trades over Cam.
Or, the Hawks feel they can get another cost controlled player as good as Cam with that pick. Which is concerning.
It's also possible the Hawks have it wrong about Cam and he gets better or the Knicks are able to get him better.
Those are definite "ifs"

Cam wasn't that expensive and if the Hawks felt he had value, you could say they could put Cam into a trade the same way they can put the Charlotte->Knicks 2022 pick into a trade. They may have some tactical/strategic reasons for wanting a pick to move over Cam.

They saw Knox’s 18 point game last month and wanted to unleash his untapped potential, it’s that simple

He'll be raining 3's like orcs raining stones on Minas Tirith

[2010]

I can’t take no man seriously who willingly signs up with the account name “Jimmit”

[3toheadmelo]

cam may or may not reach his potential, but it's a good gamble since we gave up practically nothing imo

[Chanel Bomber]

I'm pretty confident you are wrong on this, the hawks traded him because they weren't going to sign him long term..they also have higher priced vets making a lot of money that are getting playing time over him to begin with..nothing to do with red flags, but again, as I stated before, the knicks got him for free. if they traded Grimes for him, that would have been a different story

A protected first round pick is not "for free".

Grimes was a late first round draft pick. You're trading away something that's the equivalent of Grimes for an inefficient young player who's soon going to be eligible for an extension, and who wants a bigger role. That's the formula.

If Reddish becomes a positive contributor within the next 18 months, that changes everything. I don't think there's any reason to be confident that he will, but you never know.

So you’re confident in the front office acquiring protected first round picks and selecting underrated players late in the draft but not acquiring actual players already in the league?
Didn’t they flip DSJ for D Rose last year? No faith in the front office doing their homework on this move?
Dudes have like 10 2nd rd picks in the next 2 seasons, you think we’re keeping all of those too? I mean if we are, then wouldn’t you have faith in them selecting the next 10 Mitchell Robinsons or even better, trading up into the late 1st with a bunch of those picks?

Again, the pick was non lottery guaranteed. We’re a team in position to take risks (especially when we still have our own picks and Mavs next year). That flimsy Hornets protected pick isn’t going to make or break a deal for a “star”. Look at what the Nets and Lakers did with acquiring stars. If it’s a deal to get done, it’ll get done and again, it’s not like the Knicks don’t have any assets. All these young players (Quick, Grimes, Cam) probably have value of mid 1sts anyway.

Just saying, to harp on this trade as anything other than a good move until proven otherwise is dramatic and I’m not even a Cam advocate. I was crapping on him for weeks while people here were capping and saying he was better than RJ this season.

I think the Knicks could've made better use of this pick.

Like attach it to one of our bad contracts to regain some of the cap flexibility that they lost last summer. Or insert it as a throw-in in a bigger trade package for a player who's actually good.

I didn't say I was confident in the Knicks making draft picks. I merely said the Knicks have made good use of those late firsts, and that if one considers IQ and Grimes to be assets, then surely a late first round draft pick should be viewed as an asset as well.

I was completely wrong about the Rose trade last year, so there's that. It was a great move for us. It's also the only good move that they have made besides drafting IQ since Leon Rose became POBO (Grimes is TBD for me). All the other significant decisions that they've made have backfired.

So no I see no reason to give this FO the benefit of the doubt and consider this trade a "good trade" until proven otherwise. They don't have the level of credibility as a front office to be given the benefit of the doubt in my opinion.