Woj: Knicks trade for Alec Burks and Bojan Bogdanovich

[Jalen Bluntson]

8.739130434782609

I went back to the game logs and looked, Thibs never ran 7 players, always 8 or more and I even weeded out the garbage time guys which there were multiple games of that but is actually a major criticism of him.

8.739130434782609

That's the calculation of 'man rotation' going back to the first of the year, so update your rhetoric, it's not factual.

Yeah He played 8 guys... Sure... One would play 3-5 minutes. I've looked at game logs too. He ran the players into the ground bro. It's a fact. Indefensible.

You still building strawman to argue with and telling me I'm wrong for things never said yet your own fact you bring is some made up BS number in your mind that is literally wrong, not figuratively wrong.

While still running from the question, would you accept losing more games with less capable guys playing more often and more minutes? Easy yes or no question, really, but still no response to it.

Do you argue with your own mind on the internet often?

What are you 12? I made a comment that is true. He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

OG hurt 40+ mpg
iHart hurt 35-40mpg
Brunson hurt 40+ mpg
DDV hurt 40+ mpg
Hart hurt 40+ mpg

While Randle/Grimes/Mitch were also hurt.

Only Hart didn't miss any games.

Don't reply anymore. How's that? You obviously can't follow facts so keep it moving.

[stuporman]

Yeah He played 8 guys... Sure... One would play 3-5 minutes. I've looked at game logs too. He ran the players into the ground bro. It's a fact. Indefensible.

You still building strawman to argue with and telling me I'm wrong for things never said yet your own fact you bring is some made up BS number in your mind that is literally wrong, not figuratively wrong.

While still running from the question, would you accept losing more games with less capable guys playing more often and more minutes? Easy yes or no question, really, but still no response to it.

Do you argue with your own mind on the internet often?

What are you 12? I made a comment that is true. He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

OG hurt 40+ mpg
iHart hurt 35-40mpg
Brunson hurt 40+ mpg
DDV hurt 40+ mpg
Hart hurt 40+ mpg

While Randle/Grimes/Mitch were also hurt.

Only Hart didn't miss any games.

Don't reply anymore. How's that? You obviously can't follow facts so keep it moving.

Sure buddy...

[Jalen Bluntson]

You still building strawman to argue with and telling me I'm wrong for things never said yet your own fact you bring is some made up BS number in your mind that is literally wrong, not figuratively wrong.

While still running from the question, would you accept losing more games with less capable guys playing more often and more minutes? Easy yes or no question, really, but still no response to it.

Do you argue with your own mind on the internet often?

What are you 12? I made a comment that is true. He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

OG hurt 40+ mpg
iHart hurt 35-40mpg
Brunson hurt 40+ mpg
DDV hurt 40+ mpg
Hart hurt 40+ mpg

While Randle/Grimes/Mitch were also hurt.

Only Hart didn't miss any games.

Don't reply anymore. How's that? You obviously can't follow facts so keep it moving.

Sure buddy...

WTF are you talking about now? I didn't move ANY goalposts at all in this discussion. Keep it moving with his nonsense.

[stuporman]

What are you 12? I made a comment that is true. He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

OG hurt 40+ mpg
iHart hurt 35-40mpg
Brunson hurt 40+ mpg
DDV hurt 40+ mpg
Hart hurt 40+ mpg

While Randle/Grimes/Mitch were also hurt.

Only Hart didn't miss any games.

Don't reply anymore. How's that? You obviously can't follow facts so keep it moving.

Sure buddy...

WTF are you talking about now? I didn't move ANY goalposts at all in this discussion. Keep it moving with his nonsense.

This is where I started, it's my point...

Burks has played something like 6 mins across 3 games where it could be considered 'Deuce mins' because Brunson was off the floor and during that stretch Deuce has still gotten about 20mpg. There is no evidence that Thibs is benching Deuce for Burks just yet but I'm keeping my eyes on the situation as more players come back from injury to see how the rotation shakes out.

This is where you continually tried to drag it, not my point...but you sure seemed to try and make it my point because it's what you wanted to argue about...

He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

You are so desperate to argue about this that you drag it everywhere and even erroneously apply the opposite to anyone you argue with regardless of what they actually are saying.

At least you're not incorrectly asserting he's running a 7.5 man rotation now, you have it up to 8 even though the data shows it's closer to an 8.75 man rotation.

I'll go anywhere I like so maybe you should just ignore me buddy.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Sure buddy...

WTF are you talking about now? I didn't move ANY goalposts at all in this discussion. Keep it moving with his nonsense.

This is where I started, it's my point...

Burks has played something like 6 mins across 3 games where it could be considered 'Deuce mins' because Brunson was off the floor and during that stretch Deuce has still gotten about 20mpg. There is no evidence that Thibs is benching Deuce for Burks just yet but I'm keeping my eyes on the situation as more players come back from injury to see how the rotation shakes out.

This is where you continually tried to drag it, not my point...but you sure seemed to try and make it my point because it's what you wanted to argue about...

He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

You are so desperate to argue about this that you drag it everywhere and even erroneously apply the opposite to anyone you argue with regardless of what they actually are saying.

At least you're not incorrectly asserting he's running a 7.5 man rotation now, you have it up to 8 even though the data shows it's closer to an 8.75 man rotation.

I'll go anywhere I like so maybe you should just ignore me buddy.

Dude...you conveniently skip my OP that YOU came after as if I was wrong. Which I wasn't. The discussion evolved as I gave SEVERAL valid reasons for my post. Enough gaslighting and lying. You were wrong. Period.

Benching Deuce for Burks was dumb. Even with the short sample size. It was dumb. This cannot be refuted no matter how hard you try. We were running Brunson and DDV into the ground and he cut Deuces minutes for Burks? As dumb as it gets. Almost as dumb is trying to defend the move.

Maybe you should stop lying and being a dick about it.

[stuporman]

WTF are you talking about now? I didn't move ANY goalposts at all in this discussion. Keep it moving with his nonsense.

This is where I started, it's my point...

Burks has played something like 6 mins across 3 games where it could be considered 'Deuce mins' because Brunson was off the floor and during that stretch Deuce has still gotten about 20mpg. There is no evidence that Thibs is benching Deuce for Burks just yet but I'm keeping my eyes on the situation as more players come back from injury to see how the rotation shakes out.

This is where you continually tried to drag it, not my point...but you sure seemed to try and make it my point because it's what you wanted to argue about...

He FACTUALLY ran the players into the ground and half the team suffered various injuries. Most as the result of overuse. He FACTUALLY ran 8 man rotations and the starters logged 40+ minutes a game for weeks. In January. It's dumb. Period. Flynn played 3 minutes one game. Deuce had his minutes cut. Sims and Taj were lucky to get 20 minutes between them. This all happened in real life.

You are so desperate to argue about this that you drag it everywhere and even erroneously apply the opposite to anyone you argue with regardless of what they actually are saying.

At least you're not incorrectly asserting he's running a 7.5 man rotation now, you have it up to 8 even though the data shows it's closer to an 8.75 man rotation.

I'll go anywhere I like so maybe you should just ignore me buddy.

Dude...you conveniently skip my OP that YOU came after as if I was wrong. Which I wasn't. The discussion evolved as I gave SEVERAL valid reasons for my post. Enough gaslighting and lying. You were wrong. Period.

Benching Deuce for Burks was dumb. Even with the short sample size. It was dumb. This cannot be refuted no matter how hard you try. We were running Brunson and DDV into the ground and he cut Deuces minutes for Burks? As dumb as it gets. Almost as dumb is trying to defend the move.

Maybe you should stop lying and being a dick about it.

So, I will return to my point in replying to you about Deuce's mins which was on my original point...did the 6 mins Burks 'took' from him in one game lead to the losing streak? How is that 'wrong'? Explain it to me.

The 'evolving' was you trying to move the goalpost to something YOU wanted to argue but I didn't speak on and acting as if I was arguing the opposite of it. You are strawmanning and now it's you who are gaslighting.

How am I 'wrong' again? Explain my point to me that you think I am 'wrong' about? It sure isn't the 7.5 man rotation that is really 8.75 man... that's you being 'wrong'.

[Ray Williams]

With everyone healthy, Thibs should go with a 9 man rotation in the playoffs.
Hartenstein
Randle
OG
Dante
Brunson
the 4 off the bench
Mitch
Bogdanovic
JHart
Deuce
Keep Burks glued to the bench, with the offense running through Bogie he’s not needed, Deuce’s defense and shooting complement the others more than that chuck and suck pretender.
Rotate Randle,OG and Dante with the second unit and we will kill teams with our depth.

[cgmw]

With everyone healthy, Thibs should go with a 9 man rotation in the playoffs.
Hartenstein
Randle
OG
Dante
Brunson
the 4 off the bench
Mitch
Bogdanovic
JHart
Deuce
Keep Burks glued to the bench, with the offense running through Bogie he’s not needed, Deuce’s defense and shooting complement the others more than that chuck and suck pretender.
Rotate Randle,OG and Dante with the second unit and we will kill teams with our depth.

I’m just gonna keep quoting the literally hundreds of comments of fans asking Thibs to do something Thibs would never do.

Every year like clockwork fans fill this board with rotations bigger than anything Thibs has ever done before. Does he come off as the kind of guy to embrace new ways or is the power of hope really that strong?

[cgf]

With everyone healthy, Thibs should go with a 9 man rotation in the playoffs.
Hartenstein
Randle
OG
Dante
Brunson
the 4 off the bench
Mitch
Bogdanovic
JHart
Deuce
Keep Burks glued to the bench, with the offense running through Bogie he’s not needed, Deuce’s defense and shooting complement the others more than that chuck and suck pretender.
Rotate Randle,OG and Dante with the second unit and we will kill teams with our depth.

I’m just gonna keep quoting the literally hundreds of comments of fans asking Thibs to do something Thibs would never do.

Every year like clockwork fans fill this board with rotations bigger than anything Thibs has ever done before. Does he come off as the kind of guy to embrace new ways or is the power of hope really that strong?

So last spring this is how Thibs distributed the minutes:

Brunson 40.3
Barrett 34.3
Randle 33.0
Hart 32.1
Robinson 27.1
Grimes 26.9
Quickley 21.9
Hartenstein 20.0
Toppin 15.9

That's an 8 or 9 man rotation depending on if you count Obi's almost 16mpg as part of the rotation or not.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Gravy]

With everyone healthy, Thibs should go with a 9 man rotation in the playoffs.
Hartenstein
Randle
OG
Dante
Brunson
the 4 off the bench
Mitch
Bogdanovic
JHart
Deuce
Keep Burks glued to the bench, with the offense running through Bogie he’s not needed, Deuce’s defense and shooting complement the others more than that chuck and suck pretender.
Rotate Randle,OG and Dante with the second unit and we will kill teams with our depth.

I’m just gonna keep quoting the literally hundreds of comments of fans asking Thibs to do something Thibs would never do.

Every year like clockwork fans fill this board with rotations bigger than anything Thibs has ever done before. Does he come off as the kind of guy to embrace new ways or is the power of hope really that strong?

So last spring this is how Thibs distributed the minutes:

Brunson 40.3
Barrett 34.3
Randle 33.0
Hart 32.1
Robinson 27.1
Grimes 26.9
Quickley 21.9
Hartenstein 20.0
Toppin 15.9

That's an 8 or 9 man rotation depending on if you count Obi's almost 16mpg as part of the rotation or not.

The minutes distribution has been fair when Thibs has enough players performing well. Even the 2021 playoffs was a 9 man rotation too. But people freaked out back then because Frank didn't play and Deuce is now the new Frank.

[cgf]

I’m just gonna keep quoting the literally hundreds of comments of fans asking Thibs to do something Thibs would never do.

Every year like clockwork fans fill this board with rotations bigger than anything Thibs has ever done before. Does he come off as the kind of guy to embrace new ways or is the power of hope really that strong?

So last spring this is how Thibs distributed the minutes:

Brunson 40.3
Barrett 34.3
Randle 33.0
Hart 32.1
Robinson 27.1
Grimes 26.9
Quickley 21.9
Hartenstein 20.0
Toppin 15.9

That's an 8 or 9 man rotation depending on if you count Obi's almost 16mpg as part of the rotation or not.

The minutes distribution has been fair when Thibs has enough players performing well. Even the 2021 playoffs was a 9 man rotation too. But people freaked out back then because Frank didn't play and Deuce is now the new Frank.

I hear what you're saying, but that's too harsh lol. If Frank could shoot like Deuce looks like he's learned to, he'd get regular minutes in this league. Now I totally agree that his minutes are very likely to shrivel up this post season when Brunson's go up, and the remaining backcourt minutes go to DDV, Hart, & Burks. But people have reasons to be excited about the kid's development.

What'll be most interesting to me is what Thibs does with Achiuwa if we do get our full rotation back before the playoffs. If RobinHart are ready to split the 48 minutes at the 5 between them and we get our starting front court back, it feels like Achiuwa will lose out to Bojan & Hart unless Bojan's defense is just unplayable. But if Precious keeps playing as well as he is, I also have a hard time seeing Thibs not wanting his defense out there.

We'll probably never be healthy enough for this too matter, but with the defensive advantages that both Achiuwa & McBride have over some of the Vets they'll be contending with for those final rotation spots, that battle could be very interesting if we did ever get everyone back.

Anunoby
Brunson
Randle
RobinHart
DiVincenzo
J.Hart
Burks / Bogdanovic
-------------
Achiuwa
McBride
Sims

[Gravy]

So last spring this is how Thibs distributed the minutes:

Brunson 40.3
Barrett 34.3
Randle 33.0
Hart 32.1
Robinson 27.1
Grimes 26.9
Quickley 21.9
Hartenstein 20.0
Toppin 15.9

That's an 8 or 9 man rotation depending on if you count Obi's almost 16mpg as part of the rotation or not.

The minutes distribution has been fair when Thibs has enough players performing well. Even the 2021 playoffs was a 9 man rotation too. But people freaked out back then because Frank didn't play and Deuce is now the new Frank.

I hear what you're saying, but that's too harsh lol. If Frank could shoot like Deuce looks like he's learned to, he'd get regular minutes in this league. Now I totally agree that his minutes are very likely to shrivel up this post season when Brunson's go up, and the remaining backcourt minutes go to DDV, Hart, & Burks. But people have reasons to be excited about the kid's development.

What'll be most interesting to me is what Thibs does with Achiuwa if we do get our full rotation back before the playoffs. If RobinHart are ready to split the 48 minutes at the 5 between them and we get our starting front court back, it feels like Achiuwa will lose out to Bojan & Hart unless Bojan's defense is just unplayable. But if Precious keeps playing as well as he is, I also have a hard time seeing Thibs not wanting his defense out there.

We'll probably never be healthy enough for this too matter, but with the defensive advantages that both Achiuwa & McBride have over some of the Vets they'll be contending with for those final rotation spots, that battle could be very interesting if we did ever get everyone back.

Anunoby
Brunson
Randle
RobinHart
DiVincenzo
J.Hart
Burks / Bogdanovic
-------------
Achiuwa
McBride
Sims

We went from no bench after the OG trade to a deep bench again. Too bad they have not had any time to see what players have the best chemistry with all the injuries. And it might look drastically different next season.

[cgmw]

I’m just gonna keep quoting the literally hundreds of comments of fans asking Thibs to do something Thibs would never do.

Every year like clockwork fans fill this board with rotations bigger than anything Thibs has ever done before. Does he come off as the kind of guy to embrace new ways or is the power of hope really that strong?

So last spring this is how Thibs distributed the minutes:

Brunson 40.3
Barrett 34.3
Randle 33.0
Hart 32.1
Robinson 27.1
Grimes 26.9
Quickley 21.9
Hartenstein 20.0
Toppin 15.9

That's an 8 or 9 man rotation depending on if you count Obi's almost 16mpg as part of the rotation or not.

The minutes distribution has been fair when Thibs has enough players performing well. Even the 2021 playoffs was a 9 man rotation too. But people freaked out back then because Frank didn't play and Deuce is now the new Frank.

If this is true, then I guess my emotions have gotten the better of me during playoffs because I always recall 8 man rotations with maybe a nominal 5 mins for a 9th guy.

[cgf]

So last spring this is how Thibs distributed the minutes:

Brunson 40.3
Barrett 34.3
Randle 33.0
Hart 32.1
Robinson 27.1
Grimes 26.9
Quickley 21.9
Hartenstein 20.0
Toppin 15.9

That's an 8 or 9 man rotation depending on if you count Obi's almost 16mpg as part of the rotation or not.

The minutes distribution has been fair when Thibs has enough players performing well. Even the 2021 playoffs was a 9 man rotation too. But people freaked out back then because Frank didn't play and Deuce is now the new Frank.

If this is true, then I guess my emotions have gotten the better of me during playoffs because I always recall 8 man rotations with maybe a nominal 5 mins for a 9th guy.

They are according to ESPN & NBA.com

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612752/players-traditional?Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=D&sort=MIN
https://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/season/2023/seasontype/3/table/game/sort/avgMinutes/dir/desc


Although after IQ got banged up, we did run an 8-man rotation in the final 3 games of that Miami series...with Deuce not even getting 5mpg as the "9th man". So it's probably a combination of emotion and those final memories superseding the earlier ones from when we were "healthy".

[thebuzzardman]

Brunson/Deuce/Burks
Donte/Hart/Burks
OG/Hart
Randle/ Precious or Bogs
iShart/Mitch Precious

If Knicks are fully healthy, either Precious or Bogs isn't playing much, especially in the playoffs.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Problem is we have/had 4 players on the bench who cannot play - Archie, Brown, Jeffries, Toppin. These guys are not NBA players.

Leon should habe given those spots to vets who Thibs trusts enough to play. It was never the plan to play some guys 40 plus or just 8 players but Thibs maybe had no choice.

Anyway, Randle, OG, Mitch and Hartenstein did not get hurt because of minutes. Increasing a players minutes DOES NOT make them more likely to get injured! Fatigue does not mean your more likely to separate your shoulder or hurt your achilles or ankle.

[cgf]

Problem is we have/had 4 players on the bench who cannot play - Archie, Brown, Jeffries, Toppin. These guys are not NBA players.

Leon should habe given those spots to vets who Thibs trusts enough to play. It was never the plan to play some guys 40 plus or just 8 players but Thibs maybe had no choice.

Anyway, Randle, OG, Mitch and Hartenstein did not get hurt because of minutes. Increasing a players minutes DOES NOT make them more likely to get injured! Fatigue does not mean your more likely to separate your shoulder or hurt your achilles or ankle.

Those final roster spots are always a question of injury insurance vs vibes/morale/culture. Vets who are more capable of giving us minutes, are typically less satisfied not to get minutes when everyone is healthy. So there's a tricky balance that needs to be struck and how far you can push that balance depends a lot on where you are.

We're still establishing our culture, so I understand the FO playing it safe with more culture guys than injury-insurance guys before the OG-trade & injuries changed the equation. I'm still not thrilled that they used Grimes instead of one of our billion FRPs, but I'm glad they were able to pivot and bring in some insurance once it was needed.

[cgf]

Brunson/Deuce/Burks
Donte/Hart/Burks
OG/Hart
Randle/ Precious or Bogs
iShart/Mitch Precious

If Knicks are fully healthy, either Precious or Bogs isn't playing much, especially in the playoffs.

Yeah. If we got fully healthy I think there would be 7 (near) locks to get significant PT; Brundle, OG, RobinHart, & the Nova boys. That would leave the son of Asneeze(a), the Detroit adds, and our SRPs, for that final spot & a half / two spots...unless someone got hurt again or struggled so much they were unplayable.

My gut says that Burks is highest on the food chain from that Achiuwa / Burks / Bojan / Deuce / Sims cluster...at least atm...but I also think matchups / hotstreaks should play a big role in this, even if the 7 (near) locks all play great.

On that matchup note, I'm curious if we'll see Thibs rely on more small ball lineups with an Achiuwa - Randle - Anunoby front court against teams that have the stretch 5s to minimize RobinHart's impact around the rim.

[Gravy]

How many teams play their 14th and 15th guy major minutes? If the Celtics need to rely on JD Davison and Jordan Walsh they would be in trouble too.