[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

[thehandler3]

All you guys can say with a straight face that Billups is better than Ray?

Would you guys be this nonchalant if you weren't clough to the improbable notion that we will get CP3?

Have you seen Felton the last few months? for 82 games no but for a 7 game series, I'll take Billups and beat your team with Felton jacking up shots. Remember he choked in the playoffs last year against a PG that isn't even that good (Jameer Nelson)

Orlando was just a lot better than Charlotte...

That had nothing to do with Felton getting owned by an above average player. He made Nelson look like Isiah Thomas in that series. I am just saying that for those crying about losing Felton need to remember that the playoffs are a different beast and he was HORRENDOUS last year in an individual matchup that wasn't overwhelming on paper. I'd rather have Felton for the future and for a full season because he's younger a warrior and more durable but Billups to me is like Andy Pettite when it comes to the playoffs. He's extremely reliable.

[adog50]

We can't do this trade.

I don't care who you are, you're not beating Miami at their own game. No collection of stars will outdo Wade/Lebron/Bosh.

The only way to beat them is through other options like depth and size. If we give up Gallo, Felton, another starter (either Mozgov or Fields), and a first round pick all of a sudden we become a poor man's Miami Heat.

Yeah it's better than what we have now but we ain't gonna win that way. We have a shot at getting Melo for free this summer so if Denver wants to play hardball I say let 'em play because we need to add Melo while keeping what little depth we have.

Wait so are you saying if we get Chris Paul in 2012 then Carmelo/Chris and Amare can't beat Miami. First off our pg would dominate Mario Chalmers and Amare would dominate Bosh. The only problem we would encounter is the Wade/Lebron dynamic on the wings. I like our chances with Carmelo though.

+1

[MaseInYourFace]

If we get Billups, then TD has to go.

Right now, Felton has to play extra minutes since TD cannot run an offense to save his life.

Billups can't possibly play the minutes Felton is playing right now. It's been easy for him in Denver because of the development of Ty Lawson.

So either we keep Felton, or we deal him and and possibly TD in a separate deal to land Chauncey and another backup PG, perhaps a Ridnour or Telfair.

It's interesting you bring that up, because a lot of people assumed Lawson was the heir apparent. I guess Denver doesn't see him that way...

[dancing dervish]

We can't do this trade.

I don't care who you are, you're not beating Miami at their own game. No collection of stars will outdo Wade/Lebron/Bosh.

The only way to beat them is through other options like depth and size. If we give up Gallo, Felton, another starter (either Mozgov or Fields), and a first round pick all of a sudden we become a poor man's Miami Heat.

Yeah it's better than what we have now but we ain't gonna win that way. We have a shot at getting Melo for free this summer so if Denver wants to play hardball I say let 'em play because we need to add Melo while keeping what little depth we have.

Wait so are you saying if we get Chris Paul in 2012 then Carmelo/Chris and Amare can't beat Miami. First off our pg would dominate Mario Chalmers and Amare would dominate Bosh. The only problem we would encounter is the Wade/Lebron dynamic on the wings. I like our chances with Carmelo though.

The focus of 2012 would be Dwight Howard , not Chris Paul.

I don't think there is any team that could beat a Melo,Stat,Howard frontcourt.

[thehandler3]

We can't do this trade.

I don't care who you are, you're not beating Miami at their own game. No collection of stars will outdo Wade/Lebron/Bosh.

The only way to beat them is through other options like depth and size. If we give up Gallo, Felton, another starter (either Mozgov or Fields), and a first round pick all of a sudden we become a poor man's Miami Heat.

Yeah it's better than what we have now but we ain't gonna win that way. We have a shot at getting Melo for free this summer so if Denver wants to play hardball I say let 'em play because we need to add Melo while keeping what little depth we have.

Wait so are you saying if we get Chris Paul in 2012 then Carmelo/Chris and Amare can't beat Miami. First off our pg would dominate Mario Chalmers and Amare would dominate Bosh. The only problem we would encounter is the Wade/Lebron dynamic on the wings. I like our chances with Carmelo though.

Remember Fields is still 22 years old and could easily be better than he is now. I think we'd have a GREAT chance with that crew if Fields is still around. Mozgov could improve as well.

[ctorres]

For those worried about Billups having to play too many minutes. We are likely to get Telfair from Minny. I think we'll be alright with Telfair and Douglas running the show off the bench.

[MaseInYourFace]

Now we just wait for the Knicks counter. Still gonna be a long week at least folks. But it's gonna be exciting. Buck up!!

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

If we get Billups, then TD has to go.

Right now, Felton has to play extra minutes since TD cannot run an offense to save his life.

Billups can't possibly play the minutes Felton is playing right now. It's been easy for him in Denver because of the development of Ty Lawson.

So either we keep Felton, or we deal him and and possibly TD in a separate deal to land Chauncey and another backup PG, perhaps a Ridnour or Telfair.

If the pick we'd be sending comes from Minny in a Randolph trade, maybe they could send us back Ridnour?

[Clyde_Style]

If we get Billups, then TD has to go.

Right now, Felton has to play extra minutes since TD cannot run an offense to save his life.

Billups can't possibly play the minutes Felton is playing right now. It's been easy for him in Denver because of the development of Ty Lawson.

So either we keep Felton, or we deal him and and possibly TD in a separate deal to land Chauncey and another backup PG, perhaps a Ridnour or Telfair.

It's interesting you bring that up, because a lot of people assumed Lawson was the heir apparent. I guess Denver doesn't see him that way...

Or it may be more that they get to stock up on younger, more durable players with affordable contracts. Felton is a good deal for them. It gives them leeway for trades the next year too if him and Lawson don't co-exist well.

[god shammgod]

If we get Billups, then TD has to go.

Right now, Felton has to play extra minutes since TD cannot run an offense to save his life.

Billups can't possibly play the minutes Felton is playing right now. It's been easy for him in Denver because of the development of Ty Lawson.

So either we keep Felton, or we deal him and and possibly TD in a separate deal to land Chauncey and another backup PG, perhaps a Ridnour or Telfair.

If the pick we'd be sending comes from Minny in a Randolph trade, maybe they could send us back Ridnour?

i'd think they'd want more

[Starksfor3]

This is going to go down to the wire (as expected). But the good news is that they are talking.

[klemen4]

What DEN wants is basically the NJN deal:

Harris=Felton
Favors 3 pick = Gallo 6 pick
1 lottery first rounder = AR
1 lottery first rounder = Mozgov or Fields or Chandler

...even better IMO!!!

[johnnywishbone]

So....

if the deal is
Felton
Gallo
Mozgov
AR

For
Billups
Melo

I say yes. On the one condition that Karl and D'Antoni are also swapped.

I love Ray and Billups is over the hill but we'll have plenty of scoring between Melo & Amar'e. Then you can get Telfair or Ridnour from Minny as part of the deal. We can use Douglas as our defensive PG. Plus we keep Fields. We'd still have Turiaf and then we can go sign Earl Barron.

I say deal.

[boogie-reke]

This is like a flee market negotiation.

-"I'll give you 2 bucks"

-"very tempting, but lets make it 500 and you got yourself a deal!"

Denver are in not position to ask for Raymond Felton in exchange for an overthehill expiring Billups, who said he clearly wish to end his career @ Denver, and on top of that get Gallo a pick and another starter.. what a delusional bunch.

[mpharris36]

I have to agree with them TKF. I value ur opinion and think you are very knowledgable but I think you are off here.

Keeping the team constructed the way it is will not make championship runs. Chandler will want money...gallo will eventually want money and that will leave no room for other players.

Getting melo gives us 2 of the top 10 in my opinion. If you dont agree i'll even say 2 of the top 15 players in the nba. How many teams have that? The Lakers and the Heat...thats it. Boston run is coming to an end with age.

I agree I don't give into denver demands and trade all they are looking for, but if we can meet in the middle somewhere u have to pull the trigger. We would compete for championsips for the next 4-5 years

first of all, it is fine to disagree, as long as we respect one another, conversations like this are great.. if we all agreed, this would be a boring discussion..

obviously, I think losing gallo is huge, because I see him as a big talent.. a lot of people are not looking at that, they just see melo.. well i want both.. and the other end of this deal.. as much as I get on felton, i don't think moving him for billups is a good move at all!!

losing gallo is huge...i agree I love the dude, hes my favorite player on the knicks. But his role would be nothing on a team with melo and stat anyways. He is not a knock down 3 point shooter he is a streak shooter. He misses a lot a wide open 3's and hits a lot of contested 3's...it just depends if he on. Gallo is most effective when he touches the ball 20 times a gall looking to score. Usually he would get fouled 4-5 times. Takes about 5 3's. Get a few assists, make a layup or 2 and then miss a few shots. With melo and stat he will never have any plays designed for him which will result in him being a sit in the corner 3 point shooter which doesn't take advantage of his best qualities. Actually chandler is more of a knock down 3 point shooter when he is open more than gallo which is why in a melo deal even tough I love him gallo will be easier missed. Chandler can come of the bench a defend 3 positions and hit the open jumper which is what we would need

[captain subtext]

Knicks Fans being enchanted by a washed up big name and choosing him over their own player... what a surprise...

[thebuzzardman]

Wellllll, since we're under the cap, how about the Knick's take back Billups WITHOUT trading Felton.

And substitute in Toney Douglas, while pulling out either Chandler or Gallo,

so Perhaps something like:
Melo\Billups for Gallo or Chandler (whoever Den likes more)\Douglas\Curry\1st rounder from AR Deal\NY First rounder in future

Now, clearly Denver loses out talent wise, but if they trade Melo and are in $$ savings mode they get back:

Chandler or Gallo (picked 17 or 6th) - young talent with upside
Douglas (another first rounder, though 29 or 30)
A first rounder next year in the middle
Future first from Knicks
Maybe Moz or Fields? -

Lot's of $$$ savings for Denver and Knicks get backup guard who doesn't suck

[MaseInYourFace]

Knicks Fans being enchanted by a washed up big name and choosing him over their own player... what a surprise...

I don't think fans are enchanted with Billups but if he brings them Melo they are more than willing to take him...

[GONYK]

All you guys can say with a straight face that Billups is better than Ray?

Would you guys be this nonchalant if you weren't clinging to the improbable notion that we will get CP3?

Felton expires at the same time. You always side with the moss it seems like. For someone who deems themelves a point guard expert, its interesting how you can say ray is the bettet pg.

I am factoring in age and role on this team, as well as long term ramifications.

Would I give Billups the edge now? Yea, but only slightly. At his age though, and his steep rate of decline, he isn't worth it.

That's why I ask if the CP3 pipedream clouding peoples judgement. There is a much higher chance of retaining Ray than there is of forming a big 3

[falcindor]

Field works because have slackers upfront. Yes he brings some things to the table but honestly he shines because of the deficiency of his teammates.