2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[mpharris36]

a cole/rj backcourt would seem to have enough play-making between the both of them.

two below avg playmakers don't make a good playmaker

seems like a lot of forced shots to me.

[mpharris36]

I got what you want I got what you need
6'6 PG with an elite handle that can break down the defense, finish in contact, hit jumpers off the dribble. Is also Canadian so he can relate to RJ

Read on Twitter

isn't he a 3-star college recruit?

[god shammgod]

that mental approah as a PG can be callenging if you aren't an overally effecient scorer because if you aren't a good playmaker (which Cole is not)...you really have to be effecient to warrant that USG.

i'm not as hung up on what position play-making has to come from. i think we've moved past that a bit in the nba. i would rather have an a grade scorer at point and a c+ playmaker than the opposite. i feel like limiting a 1 to the traditional point guard role is a bit antiquated now.

can he be a grade A scorer with a 50% TS%?

Your basically requiring him to have a Lillard type impact on offense. Which is a tough task to assume. Especially when he isn't a great defender either.

i'm just not gonna judge him completely on efficiency in a shortened season where he suffered an injury and had little help and decide that he will be stuck there forever and that's who he is. especially because his stats post injury, that should have been worse, were actually better. he improved.

[3toheadmelo]

I got what you want I got what you need
6'6 PG with an elite handle that can break down the defense, finish in contact, hit jumpers off the dribble. Is also Canadian so he can relate to RJ

Read on Twitter

isn't he a 3-star college recruit?

Nah he a 5 star recruit

[mpharris36]

i'm not as hung up on what position play-making has to come from. i think we've moved past that a bit in the nba. i would rather have an a grade scorer at point and a c+ playmaker than the opposite. i feel like limiting a 1 to the traditional point guard role is a bit antiquated now.

can he be a grade A scorer with a 50% TS%?

Your basically requiring him to have a Lillard type impact on offense. Which is a tough task to assume. Especially when he isn't a great defender either.

i'm just not gonna judge him completely on efficiency in a shortened season where he suffered an injury and had little help and decide that he will be stuck there forever and that's who he is. especially because his stats post injury, that should have been worse. were actually better. he improved.

I buy coles shooting...I do.

But he literally could not finish at the rim like one of the worst ever. Now is that a product of UNC's complet lack of spacing? I mean even if they had terrible shooting a really good scorer should be better than the worst around the rim in NCAA, right?

[mpharris36]

I got what you want I got what you need
6'6 PG with an elite handle that can break down the defense, finish in contact, hit jumpers off the dribble. Is also Canadian so he can relate to RJ

Read on Twitter

isn't he a 3-star college recruit?

Nah he a 5 star recruit

247 compostite ranking has him as the 123rd best prospect and 3-star though, that compiles all rankings across the board. 247 alone has him as a 5-star...I wonder why the big variance...

The 247Sports Composite Rating is the industry's most comprehensive and unbiased prospect ranking and is also used to generate 247Sports Team Recruiting Rankings.

[RHODEY]

a cole/rj backcourt would seem to have enough play-making between the both of them.

[3toheadmelo]

isn't he a 3-star college recruit?

Nah he a 5 star recruit

247 compostite ranking has him as the 123rd best prospect and 3-star though, that compiles all rankings across the board. 247 alone has him as a 5-star...I wonder why the big variance...

The 247Sports Composite Rating is the industry's most comprehensive and unbiased prospect ranking and is also used to generate 247Sports Team Recruiting Rankings.

Idk and Idc lol. He passes the eye test for me

[HEZI]

Well if your point is he wouldn't be able to match Cole Anthony's volume scoring in the NCAA then I would agree he probably wouldn't. But at what price? Am I suppose to be excited about someone that can score 18ppg with extremely low effeciency and poor playmaking?

At what cost?

I like Hayes 40% assist %
compared to a guy I know you are high on (cole anthony) with a 24% assist %

If higher assist percentage is a result of less PPG but more efficiency I would take that.

If poor outside shooting and good AST% matters so much then we might as well just keep Elfird Payton, no?

The main reason I like Cole is because he has deep NBA range, confidence in pulling up from deep off the dribble and he's the best catch and shoot guard other than Haliburton but he's more of a scorer than Haliburton also and we need that from a lead guard. RJ Barrett needs space and I like Cole because he is fully capable of stepping 3 feet and beyond behind the arc and knocking it down. I don't think getting a mid range player like Hayes is a good idea.

I mean the kid in less minutes than Elfrid avg twice as many 3 pt attempts. Seems a bit of a reach no?

Elfrid doesn't even attempt jumpers. Also elfird doesn't shoot off the dribble or shoot FT's well which Hayes does both.

Also I pointed out that has shot 56% on "long 2's". Payton could never do that and he's 7 years older.

Hayes stuggles to spot up shoot right now from deep. That doesn't mean he's an incapable shooter.

So did Julius Randle but that doesn't really mean much. Like Randle, Hayes doesn't look comfortable shooting from outside and his shot is just as inconsistent. That's not the type of guard we need. Hayes, RJ, Randle, that's too much left hand inefficiency from outside.

[mpharris36]

Nah he a 5 star recruit

247 compostite ranking has him as the 123rd best prospect and 3-star though, that compiles all rankings across the board. 247 alone has him as a 5-star...I wonder why the big variance...

The 247Sports Composite Rating is the industry's most comprehensive and unbiased prospect ranking and is also used to generate 247Sports Team Recruiting Rankings.

Idk and Idc lol. He passes the eye test for me

that is you to a tea for sure

gotta respect it

[mpharris36]

If poor outside shooting and good AST% matters so much then we might as well just keep Elfird Payton, no?

The main reason I like Cole is because he has deep NBA range, confidence in pulling up from deep off the dribble and he's the best catch and shoot guard other than Haliburton but he's more of a scorer than Haliburton also and we need that from a lead guard. RJ Barrett needs space and I like Cole because he is fully capable of stepping 3 feet and beyond behind the arc and knocking it down. I don't think getting a mid range player like Hayes is a good idea.

I mean the kid in less minutes than Elfrid avg twice as many 3 pt attempts. Seems a bit of a reach no?

Elfrid doesn't even attempt jumpers. Also elfird doesn't shoot off the dribble or shoot FT's well which Hayes does both.

Also I pointed out that has shot 56% on "long 2's". Payton could never do that and he's 7 years older.

Hayes stuggles to spot up shoot right now from deep. That doesn't mean he's an incapable shooter.

So did Julius Randle but that doesn't really mean much. Like Randle, Hayes doesn't look comfortable shooting from outside and his shot is just as inconsistent. That's not the type of guard we need. Hayes, RJ, Randle, that's too much left hand inefficiency from outside.

Randle may very well be not on the team he should be no reason to not pick a prospect haha

[3toheadmelo]

247 compostite ranking has him as the 123rd best prospect and 3-star though, that compiles all rankings across the board. 247 alone has him as a 5-star...I wonder why the big variance...

Idk and Idc lol. He passes the eye test for me

that is you to a tea for sure

gotta respect it

How is it relevant tho?

[RHODEY]

BricKillian Hayes doesn't have reliable NBA range. He's only comfortable in the mid range

One team can only have so many lefties who can't shoot from outside

To be fair the mid range is diminishing it a bit. He shot 9-16 from long 2's. 56% which puts him in the 94% in terms of "long 2's"

for an 18 year old that suggests as he continues to develop that he should in theory be able to stretch those shots out a couple more feet to imporve his 3 pt %.

I buy the shot, he also shot 88% from the FT line and while that isn't an end all be all. It certainly usually trends to better shooters than not.

Right the kid projects out to be a very good shooter

[HEZI]

I mean the kid in less minutes than Elfrid avg twice as many 3 pt attempts. Seems a bit of a reach no?

Elfrid doesn't even attempt jumpers. Also elfird doesn't shoot off the dribble or shoot FT's well which Hayes does both.

Also I pointed out that has shot 56% on "long 2's". Payton could never do that and he's 7 years older.

Hayes stuggles to spot up shoot right now from deep. That doesn't mean he's an incapable shooter.

So did Julius Randle but that doesn't really mean much. Like Randle, Hayes doesn't look comfortable shooting from outside and his shot is just as inconsistent. That's not the type of guard we need. Hayes, RJ, Randle, that's too much left hand inefficiency from outside.

Randle may very well be not on the team he should be no reason to not pick a prospect haha

Unfortunately he's on the team until further notice.

[RHODEY]

To be fair the mid range is diminishing it a bit. He shot 9-16 from long 2's. 56% which puts him in the 94% in terms of "long 2's"

for an 18 year old that suggests as he continues to develop that he should in theory be able to stretch those shots out a couple more feet to imporve his 3 pt %.

I buy the shot, he also shot 88% from the FT line and while that isn't an end all be all. It certainly usually trends to better shooters than not.

He's going to be inefficient and not starter material for a while in the NBA. Very high bust potential. Maybe he improves a lot in the next 5 years but meh. There's nothing special about his game for me to take the risk for the Knicks.

I do understand your position. It doesn't seem to be common stance from many of draft people. But you are certainly entitled to it.

Right the draft experts pretty much disagree with his opinion across the board and I don't blame them .

[HEZI]

Draft "Experts"

LMAO

"EXPERTS"

[Deeeez Knicks]

The efficiency changes with changes in volume. Am I really supposed to expect that type of efficiency from him if he were to be taking 15 shots a game? I certainly know better than to do that. Plus, once the talent level gets significantly better and he has to waste energy trying to guard the elite NBA guards I just don't see him being a starting level NBA lead guard that is going to provide good efficiency and also good volume to provide a legit impact. He's got a long way to go before he ever gets there, if he ever does.

Yea, agree. Efficiency can/will change with volume and def against better competition.

I just like how as Hayes has moved up, gotten more volume, etc, he has stayed pretty efficient. He has gotten much better overall. Nothing really to say he is an inefficient player.

I don't know if he'll be a high volume player in the NBA. I don't really see that so i think he can do a good job of picking spots, not forcing it, but be pretty efficient. Still score a decent amount though. I am buying his 3 point shooting.
Plays well in pnrs, run a team. Be a solid all around pg.

He will probably take a little more time but i am ok with that.

Here's what I'm looking at with him and it's not the numbers because it's hard to project numbers when talking about transition to the league. He's not quick, not super athletic, not very strong and relies more on finesse than power on his drives, very left hand dominant and nothing elite in the ball handling category either. He has one specific go to move for creating separation and that is planting left and stepping back with the right and moving right to shoot. That's his one go to move for creating separation and you don't need advanced scouting to know how to just take that play away. He is going to need a lot better combo moves to create separation on the next level. Then there is the shooting aspect, again he isn't reliable from NBA 3 point range, so whatever comfort level he has shooting is from the mid range. Not only off the dribble but on the catch also. Not to mention the energy he will have to spend trying to keep up with the elite NBA guards and there will be plenty of them on a nightly basis so what will his shot and efficiency look like then? Those are all things that don't give me confidence in believing he is going to be efficient in the NBA for a while.

Hes not super quick/athletic, but plenty of non super athletic/quick pgs have been good. He has good size and craftiness to help make up for it.

Every player in the draft has the same question about keeping up with nba players. If anything, playing against older pros gives Killian an edge in that one.

In general, Hayes shoots well off the dribble...
The step back, off screens, etc. That helps set him up for other moves with his size and craftiness. Its a translatable nba skill that he has really improved on. He can work really well in pnrs. Good passer off the dribble. They are pretty key skills for nba pgs.

He is def a work in progress and he needs to keep working (like everyone else). But he has made really nice strides in all of his game. Has a nice feel. Imo, worth banking on that he can keep getting better. Even if hes more of a 15ppg/8apg solid pg with decent percentages i would take that

[mpharris36]

Idk and Idc lol. He passes the eye test for me

that is you to a tea for sure

gotta respect it

How is it relevant tho?

whats the chances that low ranked/recruited player from the NCAA making it to the NBA? I'm not saying he can't, Im just wondering the odds that a guy even gets a shot on an NBA roster.

[mpharris36]

So did Julius Randle but that doesn't really mean much. Like Randle, Hayes doesn't look comfortable shooting from outside and his shot is just as inconsistent. That's not the type of guard we need. Hayes, RJ, Randle, that's too much left hand inefficiency from outside.

Randle may very well be not on the team he should be no reason to not pick a prospect haha

Unfortunately he's on the team until further notice.

fair...but no draft decision will be based on Julius Randle

[RHODEY]

like my response to Rob above he is the only guard in the draft that good+ in all the main categories you want in a guard outside of Spot up shooting (which he is awful at right now). But I would rather have my playmaking guard be a better shooter off the dribble than a C&S guy. Just playing the %'s of where his shots will come from.

He's also the only guard who averages less than 15 PPG (11), makes less than 1 three pointer a game and takes less than 10 total field goals a game *8) all while having an alarming turnover and foul rate

I mean those are mostly raw stats for a guy that played 24 minutes a night on a professional team. While most of the guys you are comparing him too played starter roles in college.

If you want to use that logic than Luka Doncic avg 12.8 ppg in his last year at real madrid shouldn't have been considered a top prospect?

Wouldnt it be more beneficial to compare his possessions and his efficiency in those possessions rather that comparing him with accumulating stats like ppg?