[Camelo Thread Part 8] - NJ Gets Threats From Denver!

[melostat]

melo may not be efficient but i believe he is capable of being efficient..hes just unmotivated right now

i believe he could be efficient if he is within this system and having amare taking pressure away from him

melo is shooting almost the same percentage as wade last season yet he is inefficient and hes doing it through jumpers. comparing lebron/wade to melo is like comparing carter to pierce..carter may have better stats during the early days of his career but pierce last longer.. right now wade/lebron is sacrificing their body too much to become efficient..

i believe also that melo has the same mindset as stat who wants to play defense

[TrueWarrior]

So because McGrady didn't have much success in the playoffs, you're saying the McGrady that was on Orlando wasn't a great #1 option? Iverson was a terrible #1 option?

I would love to hear what you have to say about Bernard King. Lord knows he didn't have success in the playoffs. Is he a #1 option?

Kevin Love has better shooting numbers than Carmelo, is he a #1 option?

You're being ridiculous.

Kobe post-Shaq and pre-Gasol wasn't doing what Tmac was doing. And who cares what conference he was in. If he was the #1 option, a great one at that, his team surely should've been better than what they were, right?

Numbers aren't everything. They tell some things, but they aren't everything. Use common sense. That's the most important thing.

- Im not old enough to see Bernard King play. So I cant comment on that. Although his numbers say hes better, especially his pre-2nd injury GS/NY years. He almost single handedly beat the Pistons and took the champion Celtics to game 7 in 84, averaging 35 ppg on 57% FG%. He was incredible from the games I have watched.

- Who said Love was a #1 option? Not me. His team sucks too.

- Kobe wasnt doing what TMac was doing? What? He was scoring 35 and 31 ppg and his percentages didnt drop at all without Shaq or Gasol. In fact his TS% was even higher. His teams had just as many wins as TMacs in the West. Do you remember Orlando's 21 win season in Tmac's last year there? Howd you think they got Dwight? Imagine those Magic teams in the West. They would have won 30 games. Now think about how much damage Kobe could have done in the East if Iverson's mediocre teams were making it to the Semi's. It def matters what conference they played in. Thats two more games a year against much better teams. Wake up man. Even the Knicks made the playoffs in 04. The East was a joke and it still is after the first 6 teams now.

It was a miracle Kobe won 45 games in the West with the team he had. It just goes to show you how much better he was than TMac and AI. Kobe posted better FG%, TS%, O/D Rating, and O/D Win Shares in those years than the other guys. TMacs only comparable year was 02-03 en route to 42 wins and losing in the 1st round. I gotta give him credit that year though, as he played great in the playoffs too. TMac then went to Houston and his first year there was the only time he and Yao both were healthy over the course of a full season, and that team capped at 51 games and got KOed in the 1st round, albeit TMac played well again in the playoffs. In 06-07 they got KOed in the 1st round again with both healthy in the playoffs. The one year Yao got out of the 1st round was in 08-09 when TMac wasnt healthy. Coincidence? Check TMacs playoff numbers in 06-07 and 07-08, you'll see that its not.

While Iverson shot like crap his whole time in Philly, and actually had a season in 03-04 where his offensive rating was a pathetic 96 and TS% was 47% with a league leading 35% Usage. That is downright despicably terrible and its no wonder that team won 33 games. Larry Browns Sixer teams had top 5 defenses and that was the main reason they were good, just like the Pistons. When Brown left, so did the defense and Iverson got exposed. The Brown years' offenses were ranked low both in PPG and Offensive Rating, where Iverson did most of his inefficient damage. Those teams were perfectly built around Iverson to just let him shoot like crazy with its slow pace and great D, yet they maxed out with a few first round KOs, a couple semi appearances, and then one run to the finals in the weak East where they got whooped by the Lakers (they beat the Pacers, Raptors, and Bucks on their way there too. Not exactly world beaters. Iverson also shot like sh*t the whole playoffs).

That team was capped and didnt do much, which is my point. They would have needed to add another more efficient scorer as their #1, minimize Iverson, while keeping their defense to make that team a legit contender. Iverson wasnt leading them anywhere as the TOP DOG since he was so incredibly inefficient and a ballhog. Iversons career playoff numbers sucked too, with a FG% of 40%, TS% of 49%, and O Rating of 105. He was especially bad from 98-03.

Am I saying TMac and Iverson were bad players? No. They were dynamic talents. They just couldnt lead your team as the #1 option if you were serious about winning a ring. The only years either of them were at that level were 01-03 TMac (he had no help and put up numbers even if he didnt win jack in the East) and 05-08 Iverson (his increased shooting In Denver was most likely due to having the 2nd highest scoring offense, along with Melo to take some of the heat off though. Nevertheless his time with Melo proves that he couldnt even put up average percentages without another top 10 scorer. This team went on to get swept by the Lakers anyway so who cares. While Iverson also shot decent in 05-06 in Philly with Webber, but they only won 38 games so again.. who cares.) Both Ivy and Mac were exciting as hell and fun to watch individually (I bought both of their kicks back in the day) but they werent as good for the TEAM as they were hyped to be. Even when they got some more help they didnt get out of the 1st round. Then Mac f*cked his back up and Ivy got old. Life goes on.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/p ... &FEEDNAME=

Ok. Ok.

[kane2021]

The nets had a 9pm game (hour and a half later than DET game) and everyone played. And Avery was back peddling after the game. Find it hard to believe the nets told the pistons to hold rip out the game, then a hour and a half later played all they guys in a OT game.

AR had a DNP also recently.

Rip has not been the same sense he felt the pistons back stabbed him with the billups deal. He was upset that he signed a new contract only to have his buddy traded shortly after, without being told they had plans to deal him before he signed the deal.

I believe walsh also. He made his offer long ago. Its on the nuggets to pick up the phone and reinquire. Thats why he said his players value would only go up as the season progressed. Take it now, because later you may not get the same package.

2 things have to happen. First, Melo needs to decline the extension,......again. Second, NJ and DEN need to realize they have no realistic deal. When all that happens and the deadline approaches its up to denver to pick up the phone. I still dont think we make a trade. I dont think they want to give him his money and send him to us. And as the deadline gets closer and closer so does the off season. With the demands DEN has been making, Walsh could very well say, I will talk to him in the summer, and if we need you we will let you know.

Before the season started, our media reported that our offer was gallo and curry. Walsh said he heard we dont have the assets. And said its not a pick, because he knows he can get that.

It was also reported before the season that DEN wanted Gallo/Chandler/TD and us to get a pick. (AR). Rumors seem to have taken TD out and added fields in his place. Thats not happening folks. Especially when you look at favors and AK47 and a 1st rounder as the deal that was recently turned down. This new deal does not even net then that kind of talent.

Originally I think the plan was to pressure Melo. You want your money, then stay. Melo is not staying. At first I thought DEN was using NJ to have us pony up. And it maybe they are waiting for the phone to ring with a desperate walsh offering the farm. Now im not sure what is going on anymore. NJ is cockblocking us and DEN is using NJ? Walsh is not going for that junk. And Walsh is not going to leak a word to the media.

If DEN gets serious with us, it will be THEM initiating the contact. And there will be little to no rumors. In fact, if a NY DEN deal came about, it might just happen one day with no warning. "Knicks land Melo" because walsh for his entire life has had a limited to no media policy.

Honestly, all this DEN NJ talk sounds like 2 drunks talking junk under the bridge. Fantasizing and day dreaming. DEN wants to screw melo, NJ wants to screw the knicks. The media wants a story. Melo wants NY and Walsh is not going to gut the whole joint to appease a hung over self loathing denver nuggets once they come to grips with reality. Reality is this. You are going to lose your franchise player shortly. And no one is going to bail you out. Smarten up, take gallo, take a couple of picks, take the expirings and be happy. Because you are digging yourself a hole that is going to cost you more than your franchise player. You are going to lose all credibility as a GM for wasting everyones time.

[thehandler3]

The nets had a 9pm game (hour and a half later than DET game) and everyone played. And Avery was back peddling after the game. Find it hard to believe the nets told the pistons to hold rip out the game, then a hour and a half later played all they guys in a OT game.

AR had a DNP also recently.

Rip has not been the same sense he felt the pistons back stabbed him with the billups deal. He was upset that he signed a new contract only to have his buddy traded shortly after, without being told they had plans to deal him before he signed the deal.

I believe walsh also. He made his offer long ago. Its on the nuggets to pick up the phone and reinquire. Thats why he said his players value would only go up as the season progressed. Take it now, because later you may not get the same package.

2 things have to happen. First, Melo needs to decline the extension,......again. Second, NJ and DEN need to realize they have no realistic deal. When all that happens and the deadline approaches its up to denver to pick up the phone. I still dont think we make a trade. I dont think they want to give him his money and send him to us. And as the deadline gets closer and closer so does the off season. With the demands DEN has been making, Walsh could very well say, I will talk to him in the summer, and if we need you we will let you know.

Before the season started, our media reported that our offer was gallo and curry. Walsh said he heard we dont have the assets. And said its not a pick, because he knows he can get that.

It was also reported before the season that DEN wanted Gallo/Chandler/TD and us to get a pick. (AR). Rumors seem to have taken TD out and added fields in his place. Thats not happening folks. Especially when you look at favors and AK47 and a 1st rounder as the deal that was recently turned down. This new deal does not even net then that kind of talent.

Originally I think the plan was to pressure Melo. You want your money, then stay. Melo is not staying. At first I thought DEN was using NJ to have us pony up. And it maybe they are waiting for the phone to ring with a desperate walsh offering the farm. Now im not sure what is going on anymore. NJ is cockblocking us and DEN is using NJ? Walsh is not going for that junk. And Walsh is not going to leak a word to the media.

If DEN gets serious with us, it will be THEM initiating the contact. And there will be little to no rumors. In fact, if a NY DEN deal came about, it might just happen one day with no warning. "Knicks land Melo" because walsh for his entire life has had a limited to no media policy.

Honestly, all this DEN NJ talk sounds like 2 drunks talking junk under the bridge. Fantasizing and day dreaming. DEN wants to screw melo, NJ wants to screw the knicks. The media wants a story. Melo wants NY and Walsh is not going to gut the whole joint to appease a hung over self loathing denver nuggets once they come to grips with reality. Reality is this. You are going to lose your franchise player shortly. And no one is going to bail you out. Smarten up, take gallo, take a couple of picks, take the expirings and be happy. Because you are digging yourself a hole that is going to cost you more than your franchise player. You are going to lose all credibility as a GM for wasting everyones time.

Preach brother! Great post, I agree 100%. Denver is definitely overstepping their boundaries on this one. They realize the end is near and are desperate hoping that could rob NJ knowing they'll do anything to get him and hope Melo agrees to sign there. Once Melo inevitably shuts down NJ, they might be looking at a fat trade exception in the offseason because I can't see why Donnie should even give them Gallo at that point knowing he's ours in the Summer.

[N8isScofield]

The nets had a 9pm game (hour and a half later than DET game) and everyone played. And Avery was back peddling after the game. Find it hard to believe the nets told the pistons to hold rip out the game, then a hour and a half later played all they guys in a OT game.

AR had a DNP also recently.

Rip has not been the same sense he felt the pistons back stabbed him with the billups deal. He was upset that he signed a new contract only to have his buddy traded shortly after, without being told they had plans to deal him before he signed the deal.

I believe walsh also. He made his offer long ago. Its on the nuggets to pick up the phone and reinquire. Thats why he said his players value would only go up as the season progressed. Take it now, because later you may not get the same package.

2 things have to happen. First, Melo needs to decline the extension,......again. Second, NJ and DEN need to realize they have no realistic deal. When all that happens and the deadline approaches its up to denver to pick up the phone. I still dont think we make a trade. I dont think they want to give him his money and send him to us. And as the deadline gets closer and closer so does the off season. With the demands DEN has been making, Walsh could very well say, I will talk to him in the summer, and if we need you we will let you know.

Before the season started, our media reported that our offer was gallo and curry. Walsh said he heard we dont have the assets. And said its not a pick, because he knows he can get that.

It was also reported before the season that DEN wanted Gallo/Chandler/TD and us to get a pick. (AR). Rumors seem to have taken TD out and added fields in his place. Thats not happening folks. Especially when you look at favors and AK47 and a 1st rounder as the deal that was recently turned down. This new deal does not even net then that kind of talent.

Originally I think the plan was to pressure Melo. You want your money, then stay. Melo is not staying. At first I thought DEN was using NJ to have us pony up. And it maybe they are waiting for the phone to ring with a desperate walsh offering the farm. Now im not sure what is going on anymore. NJ is cockblocking us and DEN is using NJ? Walsh is not going for that junk. And Walsh is not going to leak a word to the media.

If DEN gets serious with us, it will be THEM initiating the contact. And there will be little to no rumors. In fact, if a NY DEN deal came about, it might just happen one day with no warning. "Knicks land Melo" because walsh for his entire life has had a limited to no media policy.

Honestly, all this DEN NJ talk sounds like 2 drunks talking junk under the bridge. Fantasizing and day dreaming. DEN wants to screw melo, NJ wants to screw the knicks. The media wants a story. Melo wants NY and Walsh is not going to gut the whole joint to appease a hung over self loathing denver nuggets once they come to grips with reality. Reality is this. You are going to lose your franchise player shortly. And no one is going to bail you out. Smarten up, take gallo, take a couple of picks, take the expirings and be happy. Because you are digging yourself a hole that is going to cost you more than your franchise player. You are going to lose all credibility as a GM for wasting everyones time.

Spot on. I think this is exactly what's going on.

[duetta]

Agree completely with this analysis - since I've been saying pretty much the same thing all along.

And as for Bernard not having success in the playoffs...

http://www.databasebasketball.com/playe ... d=KINGBE01

Justadude is Me-lo what Chitown was to Crawford.

[Hitman33]

This thread is a complete joke.

Keep telling yourself you don't want Melo. Enjoy a 1st round exit every year.

That is what Melo does every year. 1st round exits.

[Futureisnow]

"I still dont think we make a trade. I dont think they want to give him his money and send him to us. And as the deadline gets closer and closer so does the off season. With the demands DEN has been making, Walsh could very well say, I will talk to him in the summer, and if we need you we will let you know."

Agree 100%. And there's no way Denver is going to accept a reasonable offer from us when they've been nothing but unreasonable thus far with NJ (Okay, give us the picks and favors and you've got a deal...no wait, give us the picks, favors, and take Harrington off our hands and you've got a deal...no wait, can you get a third team involved?). Their inexperience is really showing. What could've been a fair trade considering the circumstances (i.e. Melo's leverage due to the extension) will probably get them nothing more than a trade exception.

[hatnlvr]

This is one of those time where you really can't take stats at heart and think you have a meaningful metric. Denver won 53 games last year; so exactly how many wins so you think they would have had if Melo wasn't on the team????? Lets be real here, he is the Denver Nuggets squad and everyone plays off of his scoring. If you take that out of the equation they aren't remotely as good as they are with him.

[K_ick_God]

This board makes too much of DNP's and such. They're not some be-all signal of a trade.

It could be they don't want Rip to get hurt because they're dying to dump him. Not quite the same thing as a done deal though, and what does Rip have to do with Melo signing?

I don't really doubt that the Pistons think Melo will go to NJ. They're the ones giving those quotes about how "The Nets know he'll come." But they don't have any access to Melo. They just have access to the delusional and/or propagandizing Nets.

[alphad0gz]

It is most definitely in Denver's and NJ's favor to have 'Melo join the Knicks in a trade rather than as a FA. If he joins as a FA, the Knicks have a much better roster than if he comes via trade. Not good for the Nets. Plus Denver gets nothing. Not good for them.

This could all be a mutually beneficial game designed to hurt the Knicks, help the Nugs, and indirectly help the Nets by weakening the potential of the Knicks, by driving up what NY has to give in trade. I don't think DW is buying......

[captain subtext]

Please, don't be too descriptive in your headline. A simple "Randolf" would have sufficed.

And why not link to the original source? Are you trying to promote your rumour-site?
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/p ... D5s550Y2NI

[hatnlvr]

Quite honestly I would hate to lose Randolph because I think he has a lot of potential and D'Antoni is being ridiculous with him right now. That being said knowing how D'Antoni is with his dog house I really don't think AR is going to get a shot at playing time anytime soon, so if it takes sending him to the Wolves for a first rounder to get Melo then so be it.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

Do the nets really hate the Knicks that much? Ive never seen a trade where a team gives up everything just to prevent their rival team from getting him

[K_ick_God]

Do the nets really hate the Knicks that much? Ive never seen a trade where a team gives up everything just to prevent their rival team from getting him

Amar'e is only 28 and Melo is 27. The Nets know the Knicks are winning already with Amar'e, while they lose almost every night. The Nets feel that if the Knicks get Melo too, they (the Nets) could be buried for good.

I think they feel that they're fighting for their franchise's life.

[Knickplaya]

Well if the Knicks get Melo think about it from the Nets perspective.

They have one of the lowly fan bases, they are second tier to the Knicks (at best), and are 100 percent irrlevent to the grand scheme of everything short-term and long-term.

[ITGM]

Do the nets really hate the Knicks that much? Ive never seen a trade where a team gives up everything just to prevent their rival team from getting him

Amar'e is only 28 and Melo is 27. The Nets know the Knicks are winning already with Amar'e, while they lose almost every night. The Nets feel that if the Knicks get Melo too, they (the Nets) could be buried for good.

I think they feel that they're fighting for their franchise's life.

That's exactly what they are doing, too bad it will all be in vain.

[Knickplaya]

Do the nets really hate the Knicks that much? Ive never seen a trade where a team gives up everything just to prevent their rival team from getting him

Amar'e is only 28 and Melo is 27. The Nets know the Knicks are winning already with Amar'e, while they lose almost every night. The Nets feel that if the Knicks get Melo too, they (the Nets) could be buried for good.

I think they feel that they're fighting for their franchise's life.

That's exactly what they are doing, too bad it will all be in vain.

Wouldn't it be worse to salary cap strict yourself for the next few years, without any prospects? And at best make the playoffs, at worse win 33 games?

[Chislic]

Ama're claims he didn't reach out to Carmelo, saying......

Amar'e: “I don’t know what Carmelo is doing. The situation is kinda hard for me to explain. I’m not sure what his camp is thinking."
2 minutes ago via web

FisolaNYDN