ImageImageImageImageImage

2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!)

Moderators: Jeff Van Gully, Deeeez Knicks, HerSports85, j4remi, NoLayupRule, dakomish23, GONYK, mpharris36

Who Do You Want At 17 (Guys Likely To Be Availables Listed)?

Markieff Morris
7
6%
Tristan Thompson
9
7%
Jordan Hamilton
2
2%
Jimmer Fredette
33
26%
Klay Thompson
6
5%
Kenneth Faried
31
25%
Reggie Jackson
15
12%
Justin Harper
1
1%
Lucas Nogueira
16
13%
Trey Thompkins
5
4%
 
Total votes: 125

User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1361 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 6:27 am

Allan Houston wrote:
moocow007 wrote:He shot almost 48% from the field this season (59% from 2 point range). That's pretty good for being
erratic no?


Still could very much do without the contested, poor looks from 3 early in the shot clock that he does too often.


Absolutely. But he's the Friars clear cut best player and is basically put into a position to be "the man". If he was more complete a player he'd be a lottery pick.
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1362 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 6:27 am

Thompson is looked at as a lottery pick almost everywhere. Anywhere from 12-18 is where Ive seen him, and hes climbing. What are you talking about?
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1363 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 6:29 am

TrueWarrior wrote:Thompson is looked at as a lottery pick almost everywhere. Anywhere from 12-18 is where Ive seen him, and hes climbing. What are you talking about?


Lottery pick is all the way through 18? Try re-reading what I said...it's really not that hard. Or maybe it is.
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1364 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 6:35 am

moocow007 wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:Thompson is looked at as a lottery pick almost everywhere. Anywhere from 12-18 is where Ive seen him, and hes climbing. What are you talking about?


Lottery pick is all the way through 18? Try re-reading what I said...it's really not that hard. Or maybe it is.


DX has him at 15. NBAdraft.net has him at 12. Ford has him at 16. So late lotto and after he tested better than expected he is climbing. But yea you can believe hes a 6'7 stiff who just stands around and hoists bombs if that suits your agenda.

Yet we're supposed to believe Brooks has all of the sudden jumped from mid 2nd round into the lottery because Grover said he looked like Kobe? Listen to yourself.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1365 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 6:36 am

TrueWarrior wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:Thompson is looked at as a lottery pick almost everywhere. Anywhere from 12-18 is where Ive seen him, and hes climbing. What are you talking about?


Lottery pick is all the way through 18? Try re-reading what I said...it's really not that hard. Or maybe it is.


DX has him at 15. NBAdraft.net has him at 12. Ford has him at 16. So late lotto and after he tested better than expected he is climbing. But yea you can believe hes a 6'7 stiff who just stands around and hoists bombs if that suits your agenda.

Yet we're supposed to believe Brooks has all of the sudden jumped from mid 2nd round into the lottery because Grover said he looked like Kobe? Listen to yourself.


When did I say he (Brooks) was in the lottery? Reading apparently is not fundamental for you? Take your head out of your ass and try reading. And when the heck did I say Thompson was a "stiff"? Stop twisting words to fit your argument junior.
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1366 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 6:40 am

moocow007 wrote:
When did I say he was in the lottery? Reading apparently is not fundamental for you? Take your head out of your ass and try reading.


Ha grouchy tonight are we Moo? Im sorry Im not on the dudes schlong. You're suggesting us pick him at #17 correct? Which is right outside the lottery, and thus is saying he has value at that spot. Really not that hard to get.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1367 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 6:47 am

TrueWarrior wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
When did I say he was in the lottery? Reading apparently is not fundamental for you? Take your head out of your ass and try reading.


Ha grouchy tonight are we Moo? Im sorry Im not on the dudes schlong. You're suggesting us pick him at #17 correct? Which is right outside the lottery, and thus is saying he has value at that spot. Really not that hard to get.


Right...this is coming from the guy riding Thompson's schlong right?

And right outside of the lottery? So when do we stop being "right outside the lottery"? Conveniently right after the Knicks pick or can we expand that you to the top 20? I'm confused. Is it whatever is convenient to belay the fact that you overstated yourself and said something I never said? Dude...when anyone says "lottery talent" it means serious lottery talent. Not guys that are going to be around into the late teens and even early 20's. So next time think before over stating something like you are constantly doing...even in the BAT thread.

IF Brooks was a lottery talent then he'd be gone by the time the Knicks were to pick cause...low and behold...the Knicks aren't in the lottery. See...you have to be in the lottery in order to get a lottery level talent. 1 + 1 = 2. 2 + 2 = 4. And so on and so forth. And IF Thompson was a lottery talent then why are you wasting your breath on this guy? Longing for someone's dingdong that's out of your league?
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1368 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 6:59 am

Ha okay Moo Moo. We pick at 17. Lottery ends at 14. Big f*ckin whoop. Take the stick out ur butt. Im going to ask you again. Do you want to pick Marshon Brooks at #17? Do you think hes good value there? Do you think hes better than Klay Thompson?

Im not on Klay's d*ck at all. Ive mentioned a couple times I could see us picking him. Thats it. It makes too much sense as far as fit go. I dont attack whoever disagrees like you are doing. Once you get a guy you like you defend him like hes your boy toy. Like I said Klay is climbing the ranks, so yea getting him might definitely be a longshot. The same way getting Jimmer is a longshot. Doesnt mean that if either guy is there when we pick we wouldnt pick them. I think both guys will be gone before we are up.
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1369 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 7:51 am

Thinking out loud.

* Klay has never been atop my draft board. Hes consistently been in the 3-5 range as far as guys who might be available. So I like him, but dont love him. Now that hes a legit 6'7 with a nice wingspan hes going to naturally move up a little bit on everyones board though. Why wouldnt he? Guy his size with his shooting/passing ability and decent athleticism is a nice little prospect. DX's comparison to Mike Miller could be spot on. People are sleeping on his passing ability. Like Miller I think Klay could average 3-4 apg in the league. He doesnt need to dominate the ball to get those assists either, which is why hes such a great fit here offensively along with his sexy as f*ck J.

* Whenever I watch Jimmer he always seems more athletic than given credit for. I want to see how high he jumped because supposedly hes got a 36-37 inch vertical. You can see it when he takes a jumper. Guy gets up. Its all about moving laterally I guess, but he looks pretty quick in the vid I posted. Im very interested to see how he plays when hes not asked to carry the entire team. Never bet against a guy as smart/driven as Jimmer. Im not sure how good he will be but I know he will go all out to try.

* Its interesting hearing Charles Jenkins say he would be a SG if he was taller. Kind of a dumb thing to say to me honestly. Why would he basically call himself an undersized 2 who will have to play the 1 because of size? Thats the opposite of draft marketing hype 101. Ask Josh Selby, who is trying to convince anyone who will listen hes a PG.

* Marshon does speak well in his interview. The guy intrigues me no doubt. Im just not sure at #17 hes where I would be looking since he doesnt really fill any needs for us. Not a great shooter, average at best defender, mediocre passer, has trouble shooting off the dribble, and is only a so so athlete. Wed basically be banking on him being a BPA type, and Im not sure he is it to say the least. Not unique enough. At least with Klay I know he will hit threes for us at the very least. With Marshon IDK what to expect, but Im not expecting some light it up scorer. Posters see Kobe and they eyes light up. However with a late 1st/early 2nd sure Id give him a looksee why not. Although Id probably take Shumpert or Lighty over him to be honest.

* Jeremy Tyler and Nikola Vucevic won the draft measurements. Youd have to think they are both 1st rounders now with how weak this draft is with centers outside the top 10. Somebody will take a chance on them. Is Tyler the next DeAndre Jordan? Everyone was down on DJ at draftime too, but like Tyler you couldnt deny his physical traits. Tyler is a perfect risk to take in the late 1st round, and if Riley gets his hands on him that could be bad. While Vucevic obviously fits our team to a tee. Wonder how high we are on the guy. My prediction is we are going to pick a guard though. Sorry Nikola.

* Speaking of centers I havent heard much out of Lucas Bebe lately. I wonder if hes going to stay in the draft. Maybe teams now value Tyler and Vucevic more than Bebe. Not much buzz with him at the moment. Hes obviously a long time away from contributing but the talent is there to be something special if a team wants to put the time into him. Hes got the most defensive potential out anybody not named Biyombo.

* If Donatas Montiejunas dropped would everybody pick him? Ive heard reports that he doesnt even like basketball all that much, and youd have to think theres a reason he would drop in this weak sauce draft. Honestly Im not sure If I would take him. Might have to on talent alone, but Im not a fan in the least bit.

* Can Iman Shumpert be a long term SG? He has the size (6'6, 6'10 wingspan) and athleticism to play it. Just needs to get that jumper together, but he seems to be able to get into the paint whenever he wants to. Who knows. He immediately stood out on TV no matter what position he plays. Looks the part of an NBA guard.

* Tobias Harris is a guy we havent talked much about. Hes rising. Doubt we pick him but he seems like a smart and skilled well rounded player. Ive liked what Ive seen.

* Is there room for improvement for Faried? Like is there any way he can develop a decent jump shot? Right now his shot in plain ugly. He really has no offensive skills at all. So is Faried is who he is and always gonna be? Nobody can predict the future but his offense is pretty terrible and he doesnt make up for it on defense enough. Some people just look at his 17 ppg in that wack conference and think he can score. He had some decent scoring games against good teams this year, but even still his scoring wont translate to me. The 4/17 game against Louisville said it all.

* I wonder if we're still interested in Harper. He measured a tad shorter than expected but hes in great shape (4% bf) and can still stroke the rock. Im still not really a fan.

* Reggie Jackson didnt attend the combine did he? He wasnt measured or anything?

* No love for Malcolm Lee? Is he the next UCLA sleeper to break out in the pros?

* Will the Morris twins drop because of their teeny weeny arms?

* Can Darius Morris' jumper be fixed? Would we pick a PG who cant shoot threes?

* Trey Thompkins has 16% body fat. I said he had to come into the combine a lean mean machine, but he came in a fat mild mannered tree stump.

* Travis Leslie is definitely strong and athletic as all hell. When I saw him on the tube he looked huge. Same thing with Chris Singleton and Kenneth Faried. These are big boys.

* I really hope we dont take Nolan Smith. Nice player, great career, but no.

Thanks for listening :D.
User avatar
Rasho Brezec
RealGM
Posts: 61,964
And1: 18,604
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Contact:
   

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1370 » by Rasho Brezec » Mon May 23, 2011 9:23 am

Tyler ain't athletic.
Image
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1371 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 11:01 am

"There are needs," Walsh added. "I always look at the draft if we get a guy whose good, who could fill a need, that's wonderful. But it may come down to who's the best player. You can't pass on a great player."


Needs

Shooting:

Jimmer Fredette
Klay Thompson
Justin Harper
Jordan Hamilton
Davis Bertans

Post Defense/Rebounding:

Kenneth Faried
Tristan Thompson
Markieff Morris
Nikola Vucevic

Perimeter Defense:

Chris Singleton
Travis Leslie
Tyler Honeycutt
Iman Shumpert
David Lighty
DeAndre Liggins

Passing:

Reggie Jackson
Darius Morris
Charles Jenkins
Norris Cole

Straight Effin Size:

Lucas Nogueira
Jeremy Tyler
Keith Benson
Willie Reed
Greg Smith

So where does this leave guys like Josh Selby and Marshon Brooks? They dont really fill any needs for us (unless you really want to reach for "shooters" and "passers") so the only way we would take either of them is if we clearly believe they are the BPA. That they are better than all of these guys who we know will give us at least one thing. What do people honestly think Selby and Brooks will become? The next Westbrook and Kobe? Do people see 20+ ppg scorers? Future stars? If thats the case why arent they sitting comfortably in the lottery right now with all this talent? Im just curious, because I have a really hard time taking one of these fellas. Convince me. Im all ears. For real.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1372 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 11:54 am

TrueWarrior wrote:Ha okay Moo Moo. We pick at 17. Lottery ends at 14. Big f*ckin whoop. Take the stick out ur butt. Im going to ask you again. Do you want to pick Marshon Brooks at #17? Do you think hes good value there? Do you think hes better than Klay Thompson?

Im not on Klay's d*ck at all. Ive mentioned a couple times I could see us picking him. Thats it. It makes too much sense as far as fit go. I dont attack whoever disagrees like you are doing. Once you get a guy you like you defend him like hes your boy toy. Like I said Klay is climbing the ranks, so yea getting him might definitely be a longshot. The same way getting Jimmer is a longshot. Doesnt mean that if either guy is there when we pick we wouldnt pick them. I think both guys will be gone before we are up.


Please try the personal insults one more time. Just try it. You dont attack whoever disagrees with you? Are you really that blind to your own worlds? How many homosexual references have you made about me in this thread alone? You constantly attack people who disagree with you...so cut the poor me innocent crap. But please do push me one more time and you can spend your time on the ESPN board. Yeah i can..so try me.
User avatar
TrueWarrior
RealGM
Posts: 19,103
And1: 8,519
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: Behind You

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1373 » by TrueWarrior » Mon May 23, 2011 12:05 pm

moocow007 wrote:Please try the personal insults one more time. Just try it. You dont attack whoever disagrees with you? Are you really that blind to your own worlds? How many homosexual references have you made about me in this thread alone? You constantly attack people who disagree with you...so cut the poor me innocent crap. But please do push me one more time and you can spend your time on the ESPN board. Yeah i can..so try me.


Oh please man. You attacked me telling me "think man. its not really that hard. or maybe it is" "take your head out of your ass junior" "reading in fundamental". Acting like Im stupid and sh*t. You brought up Klay cuz you got all defensive about Marshon, like hes my boy. I can see we've been reaching a boiling point lately. Me and you arent that different. Both stubborn and opinionated. Truth. Sometimes that can get ugly if we dont agree, which we obviously dont on alot of things in this draft. I never had a problem with you before. It is what it is. Its not that serious man. Whatever though.
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 82,543
And1: 96,562
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1374 » by thebuzzardman » Mon May 23, 2011 12:15 pm

Moocow - what is the difference between Marshon Brooks and Morris Almond?

Not being a smart ass, both are tall guards who excelled in college, who shot very well, and seemed to have other aspects of the game as well, though Almond I guess was regarded as more of a shooter. And both had people question their athleticism a bit and why it wouldn't translate to the NBA. (I thought Almond looked good in SL for Knicks, but it's been a while) .

Just wondering if anyone familiar with both of their games sees Brooks with more ability, because if true, thought SG is #3 on Knick needs, I'd go for it.
Image
BLACKFEET 2010
RealGM
Posts: 10,285
And1: 3,847
Joined: Jun 26, 2009

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1375 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Mon May 23, 2011 12:16 pm

We should draft Reggie Jackson and package him with TD and Landry for Jennings.
xsaberx
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,362
And1: 413
Joined: Feb 15, 2010

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1376 » by xsaberx » Mon May 23, 2011 12:22 pm

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:We should draft Reggie Jackson and package him with TD and Landry for Jennings.



do not want - at all
Image
xsaberx
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,362
And1: 413
Joined: Feb 15, 2010

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1377 » by xsaberx » Mon May 23, 2011 12:26 pm

moocow007 wrote:Until further notice, my preference is Marshon Brooks. For this system, for the Knicks need to hit a home run...Brooks just makes the most sense. Sure there are some great shooters in the draft but Brooks can shoot as well. What he can do that the other great shooters can't is create shots for himself AND others. Honestly I think Tim Grover may be onto something here when he said that of all the players that he's every worked with that Brooks reminds him of Kobe Bryant the most...

Within minutes of walking into the gym, it was clear that Brooks was playing at a completely different level than I'm used to seeing from college prospects. As I moved over to Grover, I began to grill him.

"Who does he remind you of?" Grover grinned. I was afraid to answer. Grover smiled and said, "There's a little bit of Kobe in him, isn't there?" He had read my mind.

Grover has been working on tweaking his shot mechanics and he's shooting the ball much better. But it's Brooks' ability to put the ball on the floor and get buckets that's notable -- even a little Kobe-esque. His lateral quickness, step-backs and aggressiveness were as impressive as anything I've seen this year.

Off the court, Brooks came off as very focused and intense. He's very serious and confident in a way that could be read as cocky. But he has the respect of everyone in the gym and Grover said he's a very hard worker.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v8W2pumHX8[/youtube]


He does move very similarly to Kobe... Interesting

Luckily he has pretty big hands (unlike Kobe)

Very hard to evaluate players via highlight videos

I definitely hope the Knicks buy a bunch of picks and I wouldn't be unhappy if they pick up Marshon with a later pick

I still want Vucevic and Jimmer and Jackson the most
Image
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1378 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 12:41 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Please try the personal insults one more time. Just try it. You dont attack whoever disagrees with you? Are you really that blind to your own worlds? How many homosexual references have you made about me in this thread alone? You constantly attack people who disagree with you...so cut the poor me innocent crap. But please do push me one more time and you can spend your time on the ESPN board. Yeah i can..so try me.


Oh please man. You attacked me telling me "think man. its not really that hard. or maybe it is" "take your head out of your ass junior" "reading in fundamental". Acting like Im stupid and sh*t. You brought up Klay cuz you got all defensive about Marshon, like hes my boy. I can see we've been reaching a boiling point lately. Me and you arent that different. Both stubborn and opinionated. Truth. Sometimes that can get ugly if we dont agree, which we obviously dont on alot of things in this draft. I never had a problem with you before. It is what it is. Its not that serious man. Whatever though.


Here's an example of don't know when to stop. Just be lucky it wont' prevent you from making your pick in BAT.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,264
And1: 25,725
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1379 » by moocow007 » Mon May 23, 2011 12:47 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Moocow - what is the difference between Marshon Brooks and Morris Almond?

Not being a smart ass, both are tall guards who excelled in college, who shot very well, and seemed to have other aspects of the game as well, though Almond I guess was regarded as more of a shooter. And both had people question their athleticism a bit and why it wouldn't translate to the NBA. (I thought Almond looked good in SL for Knicks, but it's been a while) .

Just wondering if anyone familiar with both of their games sees Brooks with more ability, because if true, thought SG is #3 on Knick needs, I'd go for it.


Not at all. Being a smart ass is what TW did.

As far as Brooks and Almond? Do you maybe mean Klay Thompson and Morris Almond perhaps? Brooks and Almond really have little in common respectively. So, if you mean Thompson and Almond then, yes, they are both similar players in many ways. Terrific sized SG's who's primary strength is shooting the ball. Almond was one of the best shooters in college basketball and was able to use his size to his advantage in getting shots over defenders...kinda like Thompson. Almond was the better shooter...Thompson is a better passer and rebounder and I think a little more athletic than Almond was. But IMHO both would project to similar roles in the NBA. Almond had a shot but reportedly was a guy that was managed to get on the bad side of just about everyone (teammates and coaches) during his short stint in the NBA. Thompson doesn't seem to have that problem.
BLACKFEET 2010
RealGM
Posts: 10,285
And1: 3,847
Joined: Jun 26, 2009

Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread (Lottery Tonight!) 

Post#1380 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Mon May 23, 2011 12:48 pm

Brooks wingspan is noticeable too. And I can understand the Nick Young comparison but Brooks has always been a perimeter player while Young is a converted interior guy that started playing on the wing
towards the end of his collegiate career. Brooks is a natural guard. Man, I am all over the place in this draft. I don't envy Donnie.

Return to New York Knicks