Donovan Mitchell Thread #6 - Something might actually happen in this one!!!!!!

[DaGawd]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

it’s def not ideal.. but offensively they’ll give teams fits.. defensively.. it’s gonna take a great team defensive scheme to mask them

[Madskillzz024]

Get Don and figure out the rest later. At least we would have a 25 year old star in NY. 2 descending contracts (Brunson and Mitch) which were done in a way to have cap space at some point to lure another star here. With that new tv deal coming up, Don’s contract is also a steal. Brock Aller + CAA may be one step ahead on all of this and we just don’t see the full picture yet.

[bearadonisdna]

Kinda random spitballing:
Thinking about RJ raising the foundation of the team . Even Julius to a degree.
Julius was a 20 and 10 guy on high efficiency but ya figure his efficiency will dip because playing with NY.
He essentially met expectations even with considered a career worst year.

Same with RJ we got a young rookie contract player keeping his fg % over 40% which is better than Uber efficient burks.

Now adding DM you do not to fear the precipitous efficiency drop like him shooting below 40% because what has been established by RJ and Randle.

[Besart19]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

it’s def not ideal.. but offensively they’ll give teams fits.. defensively.. it’s gonna take a great team defensive scheme to mask them

Randle is the problem... but Thibs managed to have top3 defensive teams with Derrick Rose, Nate Robinson, Richard Hamilton, Kyle Korver, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Carlos Boozer, Nicola Mirotic and Pau Gasol all in the starting lineup or heavy-minutes reserves

[thebuzzardman]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

This is like chanting Candyman three times for NoDope.

[bearadonisdna]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

it’s def not ideal.. but offensively they’ll give teams fits.. defensively.. it’s gonna take a great team defensive scheme to mask them

Randle is the problem... but Thibs managed to have top3 defensive teams with Derrick Rose, Nate Robinson, Richard Hamilton, Kyle Korver, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Carlos Boozer, Nicola Mirotic and Pau Gasol all in the starting lineup or heavy-minutes reserves

One of the biggest mistakes the bulls ever made was letting Nate Rob go after his hot year .
They signed hinrich in off-season and just viewed Nate as a 3rd pointguard . If you remember Nate was going off for them .
Back then was a archaic way of looking at lead guards.
Nowadays nobody would ever make that move and Nate is clearly a nicer 1guard than a washed MLE Hinrich.

[Besart19]

it’s def not ideal.. but offensively they’ll give teams fits.. defensively.. it’s gonna take a great team defensive scheme to mask them

Randle is the problem... but Thibs managed to have top3 defensive teams with Derrick Rose, Nate Robinson, Richard Hamilton, Kyle Korver, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Carlos Boozer, Nicola Mirotic and Pau Gasol all in the starting lineup or heavy-minutes reserves

One of the biggest mistakes the bulls ever made was letting Nate Rob go after his hot year .
They signed hinrich in off-season and just viewed Nate as a 3rd pointguard . If you remember Nate was going off for them .
Back then was a archaic way of looking at lead guards.
Nowadays nobody would ever make that move and Nate is clearly a nicer 1guard than a washed MLE Hinrich.

our defense will depend on Mitch mobility... last season he was atrocious on peremeter defense and most of the time looked like Tyson Chandler when opp guards were attacking the basket; no attempts to block them, lazy and out of sync... we need him leaner and wishfully also with a decent jumper

[thebuzzardman]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

This is like chanting Candyman three times for NoDope.

Ok. This runs the risk of being a 6 am, buzzardman two coffee, extended rant. I'll try to keep it relatively brief. In the context of 6 am, two coffee buzzardman rants.

In spite of being a shorter backcourt that, yes, can probably be targeted in the playoffs (though I think 2nd round onward), Mitchell and Brunson would give the Knicks the pairing of star/very good player, both with all around skill sets scoring wise, where the two best players are capable of getting their own shots off against nearly anyone, from all over the floor, while being good passers.

Brunson admittedly doesn't take a lot of 3's, but shoots them at a decent %. Also, I think Brunson can provide spacing off the fact he's an elite mid range shooter and he can't be ignored on offense, at all. DMitch I know in Utah was surrounded by always at least 2 other very good 3 point shooters, but on the Knicks when Brunson is on the ball and DMitch is off, DMitch is one of the very good 3 point shooters, since he's generally around .380 on 6/7 shots per game volume.

B8X makes a solid point, and I was coming around to this - if Brunson and DMitch both thrived on team with good 3 point shooting in the rotation and bench (Knicks won't be able to duplicate Kleber) in 5 out and 4 out sets - though at times DMitch was out there with both Gobert and Royce O'Neal - then I'd emphasize keeping shooting in the trade - IQ and Grimes and Fournier - have to keep 2/3, all 3 ideal - but that means trading Obi.

Yes, NoDope and others are correct that height among the guards is a concern, especially in the playoffs.
I counter that every NBA rule and playing style adjustment of the last 10 years is to facilitate less defense and to make it easier for shorter players to score, also slighter players. The NBA, both via the league office and teams copying the Rockets and Warriors, have emphasized going smaller, spreading the floor and less physical defense. The upcoming touch rule is only going to increase this.

So, I think the Knicks will be a good regular season team, at a minimum.

After that, there are several caveats, all based on stuff we don't yet know, but can have better informed arguments over if/after a Mitchell trade happens.

In general, the caveats are: Which young Knicks go out in the trade and which are better to retain for the team being better and a better fit, both now and moving forward. Which young players do the Knicks sacrifice in an effort to keep picks, which enables them to do some more teambuilding after the DMitch trade.*

* Just because after the Knick get DMitch and they might still need to make another move doesn't mean he's not a star nor does it mean he's not worth trading a bunch of stuff for - IMHO. I think the NBA is a star driven league and it pays to consolidate talent in a higher level in fewer players IF THE TEAM DOING IT MAINTAINS ENOUGH OF THE RIGHT KIND OF ROLE PLAYERS AND PICKS to do a semblance of moves after.

There are arguments that are pro keeping Randle, pro getting rid of Randle, pro waiting a year on Randle. There are good points on keeping Grimes over IQ, IQ over Grimes, IQ and Grimes over Obi, keeping Obi and IQ but getting rid of Randle and so on.
Some people want Fournier on the next train out of town, others think Knicks should keep him. I'm now in the "keep Fournier" group, though won't be broken up or anything if he goes. I also go back and forth on if keeping Obi matters, if the Knicks are going to keep Randle. Others think it's essential for any team success that if DMitch in, Randle HAS to go out. They might be right. I can't decide.


Generally speaking, I'd get Mitchell in, assume it costs one of Grimes or IQ, try to hold onto Obi, hold on to Fournier, Randle probably isn't getting traded, and then at the trade deadline or next year the Knicks have the following pieces to potentially move in possible (not easy) trades, to alter the make up, get that elite 3&D player (really not easy): Randle, Fournier, Big Mitch, RJ, IQ - and whatever couple of picks they managed to maintain after Ainge's anal assault.

[bearadonisdna]

Randle is the problem... but Thibs managed to have top3 defensive teams with Derrick Rose, Nate Robinson, Richard Hamilton, Kyle Korver, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Carlos Boozer, Nicola Mirotic and Pau Gasol all in the starting lineup or heavy-minutes reserves

One of the biggest mistakes the bulls ever made was letting Nate Rob go after his hot year .
They signed hinrich in off-season and just viewed Nate as a 3rd pointguard . If you remember Nate was going off for them .
Back then was a archaic way of looking at lead guards.
Nowadays nobody would ever make that move and Nate is clearly a nicer 1guard than a washed MLE Hinrich.

our defense will depend on Mitch mobility... last season he was atrocious on peremeter defense and most of the time looked like Tyson Chandler when opp guards were attacking the basket; no attempts to block them, lazy and out of sync... we need him leaner and wishfully also with a decent jumper

Goes without saying.
Knicks need positive play from Mitch even if it’s not at his super sub level of play. Heck even his 8 and 8 level of play.
They need him to hold the fort and remain a positive on court influence and not keep us from playing 4 on 5.
Can he be Dwight Powell , Jericho Sims?
These guys at least maintained positive +\- starting play for the season .

The scariest Mitch stat I’ve seen is how Mitch was the only negative +\- starter post Allstar break.
My bar for Mitch isn’t that high but he needs to provide positive play for the Knicks to even attempt to hit their ceiling .
If not then he will be benched , probably look like an amazing sub and then hopefully easy to move.

[thebuzzardman]

Randle is the problem... but Thibs managed to have top3 defensive teams with Derrick Rose, Nate Robinson, Richard Hamilton, Kyle Korver, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Carlos Boozer, Nicola Mirotic and Pau Gasol all in the starting lineup or heavy-minutes reserves

One of the biggest mistakes the bulls ever made was letting Nate Rob go after his hot year .
They signed hinrich in off-season and just viewed Nate as a 3rd pointguard . If you remember Nate was going off for them .
Back then was a archaic way of looking at lead guards.
Nowadays nobody would ever make that move and Nate is clearly a nicer 1guard than a washed MLE Hinrich.

our defense will depend on Mitch mobility... last season he was atrocious on peremeter defense and most of the time looked like Tyson Chandler when opp guards were attacking the basket; no attempts to block them, lazy and out of sync... we need him leaner and wishfully also with a decent jumper

Supposedly Hartenstein is VERY good at being a mobile defender. Knicks will need 48 minutes of it though, not the 20 mpg that Hartenstein likely offers.

[thebuzzardman]

Craziest buzzardman Mitchell trade concept/wish item

Knicks manage to use Rose & Cam as basis of Mitchell trade ($ wise) but also send Randle packing to Lakers (but not Fournier)
Hey, I said it was pretend time.
Knicks get Mitchell and Bojan Bogdanovic

Knicks also then sign Paschall to backfill a PF slot

Brunson/IQ
Mitchell/Fournier
RJ/Bogdanovic
Obi/Paschall/
Big Mitch/Hartenstein

Shoot yer eyes out. Yes, Fournier probably back up SG, Boj B the backup SF and Grimes rides the pine

*edit - I had the Knicks keeping Grimes. In any trade that is Rose/Cam/McBride, basically Grimes or IQ has to go. In this wildly impossible scenario, Grimes has to go.
* 2nd edit - there might be a way to put in Feron Hunt and Keels, but Ainge wouldn't want them and can't see a way Utah takes in 5 players to rid of 2 or 3 - assuming they push Conley out the door in this pretend trade, and Lakers send them both remaining 1st round picks.

[Chislic]

For the Obi optimists:

Watch on YouTube

Virtually all of those plays were straight line drives but to be fair what I'm calling straight line drives also include the parabolic drives he does which are quite effective. He doesn't change direction much and he doesn't go side to side with the basketball.

Mostly because he can't, he doesn't have that in his bag but wisely, he doesn't even waste possessions trying to generate offense like that. He has a little shiftiness to his dribble but he's not going to shake many wings let alone any guards, his advantage comes from his power, positioning and agility.

He is a complementary player in that he isn't going to carry an offense but he has the type of game that gets 20 points off just Obi being Obi. Especially if he finds his inner sniper alter ego from 3. He will hit timely 3s and get devastating dunks, the lighting and thunder of skills on offense.

If he maxes out his potential that still is only a 3rd option, though. It's a really high impact and very dynamic 3rd option but he still has a ways to go in developing before one could just put the ball in his hands to get a bucket, he feeds off others creation, he's a finisher.

Although, if Rose maxes him they eff up bad, clear nepotistic favor and it's a losing move, he's doubling down on a questionable decision he already had. Obi does have that bottom of big 3 potential but you don't give him the bag before he does become it, no projecting it to be before it actually is.

Don would unlock him if they got to chance to share the court though...

He's become more decisive as his confidence has grown. He scores the ball within 4 seconds or less in these positions.

[Dubious Handles]

I like the energy in the thread(s), shows that most fans are eager for the move to get done and believe Leon will help ascend the team into the top echelon of the eastern conference.
Brunson - Mitchell - Randle is a nightmare matchup for most of the league with no real weaknesses to exploit. Then you add Melo, Rose, Mitch, Fourni3r, Cam and Thibs' ingenuity and defensive schemes to the mix, sky is the limit.

[Fat Kat]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

it’s def not ideal.. but offensively they’ll give teams fits.. defensively.. it’s gonna take a great team defensive scheme to mask them

Yeah. I think it can work better than Donovan and washed Con!ey worked.

[WargamesX]

Can someone explain this to me, how a backcourt of Mitchell and Brunson will work?

it’s def not ideal.. but offensively they’ll give teams fits.. defensively.. it’s gonna take a great team defensive scheme to mask them

Yeah. I think it can work better than Donovan and washed Con!ey worked.

I keep saying Brunson reminds me of Unwashed (is that the right term?) Conley. Brunson plays how Conley use to play on the Grizzlies when he was younger.

I think the scoring is good but the inherent difficulties due to size is the same and the main reason the FO pushed back on including Grimes… because they are going to need a player like Grimes in the back court rotation to make it work.

[SARGO127]

Not that it matters, but if we get Mitchell, it prevents us from trading for Zion without dealing Mitchell in the process right?

[Reign23]

boooooooooooooooooring

[Madskillzz024]

https://omny.fm/shows/burns-gambo/burns-and-gambo-kyler-murray-speaks

Starts at the 2:15 mark.
Doesn’t sound like the Knicks + Nets+ Jazz+ Suns have actually discussed this though.

[thebuzzardman]

https://omny.fm/shows/burns-gambo/burns-and-gambo-kyler-murray-speaks

Starts at the 2:15 mark.
Doesn’t sound like the Knicks + Nets+ Jazz+ Suns have actually discussed this though.

THE gambo

[thebuzzardman]

Closing in on thread #7.

Do we make it to #10 before trade happens/doesn't happen?