2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[HEZI]

I mean mudiay shot 58% in China from the FT line he was never a good shooter.

I believe there is a better correlation of a guy that can shoot 88% from the FT line and very well on "lance thomas 3's" at 18. He needs gain a little range on the 3...a lot of young players need to adjust to the NBA 3 point line. He was playing at a longer 3 pt line then college players were too.

No the distance is the same in college. Hayes is bad from the outside. FT% Is pretty irrelevant to be honest. Some of the best free throw shooters in the league are not good 3 point shooters. Jimmy Butler, Derrick Rose, Demar DeRozan, Tomas Satoransky, Malcolm Brogdon, etc.

Brogden has a down year from the 3 pt line but is a career 38% shooter from deep. And most of the top FT shooters are good from distance.

Redick
Bojan
CP3
Booker
Middelton

I'm not saying he is going to be a 40% 3 point shooter. But I think its a way to premature to believe he is going to shoot under 30% from 3.

In 10 games in the euro cup he shot 39% from 3 and 91% from the line. I do think you are being a bit to critical on his potential to shoot from outside.

Realistically what are we looking at here with Hayes? What kind of player is he projecting to be? Where do you see his numbers being in the NBA?

[3toheadmelo]

oh well, if DX has him as the 2nd highest international prospect who was 1?

Idk I cant find it. But I did find this from DX

Mane, considered a five-star recruit by scouting services that include Canadian prospects

I take DX's word here

Did they say #2 ranked canadian prospect? Because if DX rated him #2 that would mean they would have him higher rated than Deni, Hayes, and Poku who are all considered lottery picks.

Nope International overall. I believe that it is specific to 2000 born players though. Like only the year 2000. I can see Karim Mane being better than Hayes and Deni though. He has the tools and skillset.

[robillionaire]

oh well, if DX has him as the 2nd highest international prospect who was 1?

Idk I cant find it. But I did find this from DX

Mane, considered a five-star recruit by scouting services that include Canadian prospects

I take DX's word here

Did they say #2 ranked canadian prospect? Because if DX rated him #2 that would mean they would have him higher rated than Deni, Hayes, and Poku who are all considered lottery picks.

those guys were born in 2001. it says 2000 born in the givony article he's sourcing this from

here it is fwiw https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29088716/canadian-prospect-karim-mane-entering-nba-draft-keeping-college-eligibility

[mpharris36]

Idk I cant find it. But I did find this from DX

I take DX's word here

Did they say #2 ranked canadian prospect? Because if DX rated him #2 that would mean they would have him higher rated than Deni, Hayes, and Poku who are all considered lottery picks.

those guys were born in 2001. it says 2000 born in the givony article he's sourcing this from

here it is fwiw https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29088716/canadian-prospect-karim-mane-entering-nba-draft-keeping-college-eligibility

what an odd way to rank a player. Players born in 2000. Most of those international prospects what were born the year 2000 were drafted last year. So do they not count?

I'm so confused?

[3toheadmelo]

Did they say #2 ranked canadian prospect? Because if DX rated him #2 that would mean they would have him higher rated than Deni, Hayes, and Poku who are all considered lottery picks.

those guys were born in 2001. it says 2000 born in the givony article he's sourcing this from

here it is fwiw https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29088716/canadian-prospect-karim-mane-entering-nba-draft-keeping-college-eligibility

what an odd way to rank a player. Players born in 2000. Most of those international prospects what were born the year 2000 were drafted last year. So do they not count?

I'm so confused?

Idk how all of these stuff is relevant to you lets talk about his game for once

[mpharris36]

those guys were born in 2001. it says 2000 born in the givony article he's sourcing this from

here it is fwiw https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29088716/canadian-prospect-karim-mane-entering-nba-draft-keeping-college-eligibility

what an odd way to rank a player. Players born in 2000. Most of those international prospects what were born the year 2000 were drafted last year. So do they not count?

I'm so confused?

Idk how all of these stuff is relevant to you lets talk about his game for once

does he have any stats?

[3toheadmelo]

what an odd way to rank a player. Players born in 2000. Most of those international prospects what were born the year 2000 were drafted last year. So do they not count?

I'm so confused?

Idk how all of these stuff is relevant to you lets talk about his game for once

does he have any stats?

Idk but I take high school stats with a grain of salt either way.
Anyways this guy watched him live at Fiba U19 and made this scouting vid on him and he is pretty high on him. It's worth a look

Watch on YouTube

[robillionaire]

Did they say #2 ranked canadian prospect? Because if DX rated him #2 that would mean they would have him higher rated than Deni, Hayes, and Poku who are all considered lottery picks.

those guys were born in 2001. it says 2000 born in the givony article he's sourcing this from

here it is fwiw https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29088716/canadian-prospect-karim-mane-entering-nba-draft-keeping-college-eligibility

what an odd way to rank a player. Players born in 2000. Most of those international prospects what were born the year 2000 were drafted last year. So do they not count?

I'm so confused?

Yeah it's oddly specific and also I can't seem to find this ranking of prospects that givony is referring to.

they cite this game in an empty gym in greece from a year ago as a breakout performance, I looked up footage, can't say I'm overly impressed but if we keep 38 maybe they this perrin guy knows something about him we don't

he probably will be going to ncaa

Watch on YouTube

[mpharris36]

No the distance is the same in college. Hayes is bad from the outside. FT% Is pretty irrelevant to be honest. Some of the best free throw shooters in the league are not good 3 point shooters. Jimmy Butler, Derrick Rose, Demar DeRozan, Tomas Satoransky, Malcolm Brogdon, etc.

Brogden has a down year from the 3 pt line but is a career 38% shooter from deep. And most of the top FT shooters are good from distance.

Redick
Bojan
CP3
Booker
Middelton

I'm not saying he is going to be a 40% 3 point shooter. But I think its a way to premature to believe he is going to shoot under 30% from 3.

In 10 games in the euro cup he shot 39% from 3 and 91% from the line. I do think you are being a bit to critical on his potential to shoot from outside.

Realistically what are we looking at here with Hayes? What kind of player is he projecting to be? Where do you see his numbers being in the NBA?

i mean if I could tell you his numbers I probably should be working for an NBA franchise, right?

I mean if the shot comes along I could see a high teans scorer with 7-8 assits a game. Maybe a more playmaking version version of D'Lo who's also not nearly as poor as a defender as D'Lo. More of a 2-way player in that sense.

So best case scenario I would clasify his game as a better version of d'lo

[HEZI]

Brogden has a down year from the 3 pt line but is a career 38% shooter from deep. And most of the top FT shooters are good from distance.

Redick
Bojan
CP3
Booker
Middelton

I'm not saying he is going to be a 40% 3 point shooter. But I think its a way to premature to believe he is going to shoot under 30% from 3.

In 10 games in the euro cup he shot 39% from 3 and 91% from the line. I do think you are being a bit to critical on his potential to shoot from outside.

Realistically what are we looking at here with Hayes? What kind of player is he projecting to be? Where do you see his numbers being in the NBA?

i mean if I could tell you his numbers I probably should be working for an NBA franchise, right?

I mean if the shot comes along I could see a high teans scorer with 7-8 assits a game. Maybe a more playmaking version version of D'Lo who's also not nearly as poor as a defender as D'Lo. More of a 2-way player in that sense.

So best case scenario I would clasify his game as a better version of d'lo

A better version of DLo? The same DLo who averaged 19 PPG / 5 APG / 5.7 RPG / and shot 41% from 3 on over 6 attempts a game as a freshman at Ohio State?

More playmaking? Does that come with the high turnover rate as well?

I'm going to judge his defense when he actually has to defend legit NBA guards but for now it seems a little more realistic to expect him to be nowhere close to DLo since DLo was a far more superior prospect than him.

[mpharris36]

Idk how all of these stuff is relevant to you lets talk about his game for once

does he have any stats?

Idk but I take high school stats with a grain of salt either way.
Anyways this guy watched him live at Fiba U19 and made this scouting vid on him and he is pretty high on him. It's worth a look

Watch on YouTube

so it looks like I found the tourny that you are talking about U19 for Canada

He avg

11.7 pts per game
40% FG
29% 3 pt %
Had 20 assists and 17 turnovers (so assestially a 1:1 ratio)
seems like an ok rebounder for his size (4.4 a game)

I mean from the highlights looks like a good athlete. He had one really good game against Australia where he got hot from 3. Seems like a raw combo guard. I guess if someone wanted to take a long term chance on him.

I guess my question would be does a team take a chance drafting him? Seems like there is very little info on him especially with his injury from last year. I guess we shall see.

[mpharris36]

Realistically what are we looking at here with Hayes? What kind of player is he projecting to be? Where do you see his numbers being in the NBA?

i mean if I could tell you his numbers I probably should be working for an NBA franchise, right?

I mean if the shot comes along I could see a high teans scorer with 7-8 assits a game. Maybe a more playmaking version version of D'Lo who's also not nearly as poor as a defender as D'Lo. More of a 2-way player in that sense.

So best case scenario I would clasify his game as a better version of d'lo

A better version of DLo? The same DLo who averaged 19 PPG / 5 APG / 5.7 RPG / and shot 41% from 3 on over 6 attempts a game as a freshman at Ohio State?

More playmaking? Does that come with the high turnover rate as well?

I'm going to judge his defense when he actually has to defend legit NBA guards but for now it seems a little more realistic to expect him to be nowhere close to DLo since DLo was a far more superior prospect than him.

I mean what am I trying to sell you on here?

And yes a better playmaker...He avg more assists than d-lo did in college in 10 less minutes per game. So when a player avg more assists in 24 minutes than a player avgs in 34 minutes they are a signficantly better playmaker and passer. Hayes does force passes more often then you would like but many young PG's do that as well.

Now I said that was high end (d-lo comp)...if his shot develops. D-lo was a signficantly better shooter when he was drafted. Hands down. You get no argument from me there.

As far as defense goes, if you are a smart defender with good sound mechanics I don't think it matters if you aren't overally athletic.

For example Obi Toppin (crazy athlete) - also atrocious defender
Frank below average athlete - really good defender

footwork, iq matter

[3toheadmelo]

does he have any stats?

Idk but I take high school stats with a grain of salt either way.
Anyways this guy watched him live at Fiba U19 and made this scouting vid on him and he is pretty high on him. It's worth a look

Watch on YouTube

so it looks like I found the tourny that you are talking about U19 for Canada

He avg

11.7 pts per game
40% FG
29% 3 pt %
Had 20 assists and 17 turnovers (so assestially a 1:1 ratio)
seems like an ok rebounder for his size (4.4 a game)

I mean from the highlights looks like a good athlete. He had one really good game against Australia where he got hot from 3. Seems like a raw combo guard. I guess if someone wanted to take a long term chance on him.

I guess my question would be does a team take a chance drafting him? Seems like there is very little info on him especially with his injury from last year. I guess we shall see.

Yea he raw but those flashes you can’t front he looks a lot like Jrue Holiday. I think he goes 2nd round if he stays in the draft. I would def take a shot at him there. I believe in him long term

[mpharris36]

Idk but I take high school stats with a grain of salt either way.
Anyways this guy watched him live at Fiba U19 and made this scouting vid on him and he is pretty high on him. It's worth a look

Watch on YouTube

so it looks like I found the tourny that you are talking about U19 for Canada

He avg

11.7 pts per game
40% FG
29% 3 pt %
Had 20 assists and 17 turnovers (so assestially a 1:1 ratio)
seems like an ok rebounder for his size (4.4 a game)

I mean from the highlights looks like a good athlete. He had one really good game against Australia where he got hot from 3. Seems like a raw combo guard. I guess if someone wanted to take a long term chance on him.

I guess my question would be does a team take a chance drafting him? Seems like there is very little info on him especially with his injury from last year. I guess we shall see.

Yea he raw but those flashes you can’t front he looks a lot like Jrue Holiday. I think he goes 2nd round if he stays in the draft. I would def take a shot at him there. I believe in him long term

who know man. I see the Australia game and your like nice he scored 23 pts and 5-9 from 3. But in that same tourny vs Frank he scored 2 pts and went 0-8 from the field while playing France. So seems like it would be an absolute crap shoot with him.

Like he said he probably needs a guaruntee about being drafted to skip college. I don't know if anyone will give him that guaruntee with such little info on him.

[HEZI]

i mean if I could tell you his numbers I probably should be working for an NBA franchise, right?

I mean if the shot comes along I could see a high teans scorer with 7-8 assits a game. Maybe a more playmaking version version of D'Lo who's also not nearly as poor as a defender as D'Lo. More of a 2-way player in that sense.

So best case scenario I would clasify his game as a better version of d'lo

A better version of DLo? The same DLo who averaged 19 PPG / 5 APG / 5.7 RPG / and shot 41% from 3 on over 6 attempts a game as a freshman at Ohio State?

More playmaking? Does that come with the high turnover rate as well?

I'm going to judge his defense when he actually has to defend legit NBA guards but for now it seems a little more realistic to expect him to be nowhere close to DLo since DLo was a far more superior prospect than him.

I mean what am I trying to sell you on here?

And yes a better playmaker...He avg more assists than d-lo did in college in 10 less minutes per game. So when a player avg more assists in 24 minutes than a player avgs in 34 minutes they are a signficantly better playmaker and passer. Hayes does force passes more often then you would like but many young PG's do that as well.

Now I said that was high end (d-lo comp)...if his shot develops. D-lo was a signficantly better shooter when he was drafted. Hands down. You get no argument from me there.

As far as defense goes, if you are a smart defender with good sound mechanics I don't think it matters if you aren't overally athletic.

For example Obi Toppin (crazy athlete) - also atrocious defender
Frank below average athlete - really good defender

footwork, iq matter

Hayes averages 3.2 turnovers a game in those very same 24 minutes so significantly better is a hyperbole. DLo didn't even average that much in those extra minutes so not buying it. Only 5 players in the NBA averaged 8+ assists a game and guys like Harden, Lonzo, Morant, CP3, Fox, etc. didn't average 8 assists per game. So I'm not buying it

The defense, again I need to see it to believe it.

[mpharris36]

A better version of DLo? The same DLo who averaged 19 PPG / 5 APG / 5.7 RPG / and shot 41% from 3 on over 6 attempts a game as a freshman at Ohio State?

More playmaking? Does that come with the high turnover rate as well?

I'm going to judge his defense when he actually has to defend legit NBA guards but for now it seems a little more realistic to expect him to be nowhere close to DLo since DLo was a far more superior prospect than him.

I mean what am I trying to sell you on here?

And yes a better playmaker...He avg more assists than d-lo did in college in 10 less minutes per game. So when a player avg more assists in 24 minutes than a player avgs in 34 minutes they are a signficantly better playmaker and passer. Hayes does force passes more often then you would like but many young PG's do that as well.

Now I said that was high end (d-lo comp)...if his shot develops. D-lo was a signficantly better shooter when he was drafted. Hands down. You get no argument from me there.

As far as defense goes, if you are a smart defender with good sound mechanics I don't think it matters if you aren't overally athletic.

For example Obi Toppin (crazy athlete) - also atrocious defender
Frank below average athlete - really good defender

footwork, iq matter

Hayes averages 3.2 turnovers a game in those very same 24 minutes so significantly better is a hyperbole. DLo didn't even average that much in those extra minutes so not buying it. Only 5 players in the NBA averaged 8+ assists a game and guys like Harden, Lonzo, Morant, CP3, Fox, etc. didn't average 8 assists per game. So I'm not buying it

The defense, again I need to see it to believe it.

i mean his per 36 stats he avg 8 assits a game (last year). But you don't care for that.

So I believe that is possible. Now again that is his high end comp. If he becomes an average NBA guard/role player which is possible too those predictions will be high. But then again no one knows which of these prospects will be high end and which will be role players.

Some will be complete duds.

[3toheadmelo]

so it looks like I found the tourny that you are talking about U19 for Canada

He avg

11.7 pts per game
40% FG
29% 3 pt %
Had 20 assists and 17 turnovers (so assestially a 1:1 ratio)
seems like an ok rebounder for his size (4.4 a game)

I mean from the highlights looks like a good athlete. He had one really good game against Australia where he got hot from 3. Seems like a raw combo guard. I guess if someone wanted to take a long term chance on him.

I guess my question would be does a team take a chance drafting him? Seems like there is very little info on him especially with his injury from last year. I guess we shall see.

Yea he raw but those flashes you can’t front he looks a lot like Jrue Holiday. I think he goes 2nd round if he stays in the draft. I would def take a shot at him there. I believe in him long term

who know man. I see the Australia game and your like nice he scored 23 pts and 5-9 from 3. But in that same tourny vs Frank he scored 2 pts and went 0-8 from the field while playing France. So seems like it would be an absolute crap shoot with him.

Like he said he probably needs a guaruntee about being drafted to skip college. I don't know if anyone will give him that guaruntee with such little info on him.

You somehow find a way to try and give Frank props in every argument... even in topics that have nothing to do with him. Never change man He never played in that game... or that tournament lol

[HEZI]

I mean what am I trying to sell you on here?

And yes a better playmaker...He avg more assists than d-lo did in college in 10 less minutes per game. So when a player avg more assists in 24 minutes than a player avgs in 34 minutes they are a signficantly better playmaker and passer. Hayes does force passes more often then you would like but many young PG's do that as well.

Now I said that was high end (d-lo comp)...if his shot develops. D-lo was a signficantly better shooter when he was drafted. Hands down. You get no argument from me there.

As far as defense goes, if you are a smart defender with good sound mechanics I don't think it matters if you aren't overally athletic.

For example Obi Toppin (crazy athlete) - also atrocious defender
Frank below average athlete - really good defender

footwork, iq matter

Hayes averages 3.2 turnovers a game in those very same 24 minutes so significantly better is a hyperbole. DLo didn't even average that much in those extra minutes so not buying it. Only 5 players in the NBA averaged 8+ assists a game and guys like Harden, Lonzo, Morant, CP3, Fox, etc. didn't average 8 assists per game. So I'm not buying it

The defense, again I need to see it to believe it.

i mean his per 36 stats he avg 8 assits a game (last year). But you don't care for that.

So I believe that is possible. Now again that is his high end comp. If he becomes an average NBA guard/role player which is possible too those predictions will be high. But then again no one knows which of these prospects will be high end and which will be role players.

Some will be complete duds.

How many players in the league average 36MPG? There is only a handful of them that get that much playing time and all of them are established NBA stars. If we are going by per 36 then DLo averages over 7 assists a game in the NBA. Hayes per 36 he also averages right under 5 turnovers a game.

I think we gotta be aware just how much improving he needs to make just to become what some might envision him becoming and to be worth the pick. That's why I keep saying he's a long term project because he's got ways to go to even reach Ohio State DLo level let alone the current improved version of today.

[RHODEY]

I mean what am I trying to sell you on here?

And yes a better playmaker...He avg more assists than d-lo did in college in 10 less minutes per game. So when a player avg more assists in 24 minutes than a player avgs in 34 minutes they are a signficantly better playmaker and passer. Hayes does force passes more often then you would like but many young PG's do that as well.

Now I said that was high end (d-lo comp)...if his shot develops. D-lo was a signficantly better shooter when he was drafted. Hands down. You get no argument from me there.

As far as defense goes, if you are a smart defender with good sound mechanics I don't think it matters if you aren't overally athletic.

For example Obi Toppin (crazy athlete) - also atrocious defender
Frank below average athlete - really good defender

footwork, iq matter

Hayes averages 3.2 turnovers a game in those very same 24 minutes so significantly better is a hyperbole. DLo didn't even average that much in those extra minutes so not buying it. Only 5 players in the NBA averaged 8+ assists a game and guys like Harden, Lonzo, Morant, CP3, Fox, etc. didn't average 8 assists per game. So I'm not buying it

The defense, again I need to see it to believe it.

i mean his per 36 stats he avg 8 assits a game (last year). But you don't care for that.



So I believe that is possible. Now again that is his high end comp. If he becomes an average NBA guard/role player which is possible too those predictions will be high. But then again no one knows which of these prospects will be high end and which will be role players.

Some will be complete duds.

DLo with Defense....

Watch on YouTube

[8516knicks]

There are so many IFS in this draft, let me ask something to give me some perspective on it - who would you trade RJ for in this draft?