OFFICIAL - Amare Must Go Thread (all hate here) #TRADESTAT

[Stannis]

I doubt the Knicks could get anything considered "good value" for Amar'e.

[seren]

I am really not sure whether it is the coach's strategy as opposed to where Amare's body is at. I remember many people calling for Adelman's head for Webber's continuous outside shooting when it was really clear that it simply was Webber's body breaking down.

Of course, since that's what happened with Webber, it must be what's wrong with Amar'e!

just watch the video on previous page and see Amare's movement defending Diaw. tell me it doesn't look like Amare is having trouble moving.

[albert]

just watch the video on previous page and see Amare's movement defending Diaw. tell me it doesn't look like Amare is having trouble moving.

It might be a good excuse if this didn't happen every single game. Amare cannot stay in front of anyone.

Amare is the worst defender in the league. And it's said and pathetic that he parades around like he is a some sort of intimidating shot blocking force.

And let's say he is in peak health. What if we take the man at his word and believe that he's in peak physical condition with the extra inch to make him 6'11'' and the whatever pounds of muscle?

Even then, is he a good defender? No.

Is he an average defender? No.

Is he a below average defender that can be shielded on our team? No.

Can he be trusted to make a correct defensive rotation? No.

Do you think his teammates take him seriously when he grills at the refs after getting duped by a mediocre scorer for an And-1 situation? No.

Do you think his teammates trust him when he yells out defensive assignments and points his finger and lets out a yell when he blocks a shot? No.

Is he a cancer on our team defensively? Yes.

And he is exactly while we will never be a legitimate title contender. #TradeSTAT

[albert]

I doubt the Knicks could get anything considered "good value" for Amar'e.

A few people have mentioned this, but I don't think we need to get equal value back. It would be a case of addition by subtraction.

If we can add 2 decent rotation players, we could move forward without having our players play out of position. Preferably, one of these players would be a competent point guard that can buy us time while B Diddy recovers or can play big minutes if Diddy turns out to be a chucker.

New rotation:

Tyson / Jorts
PF acquisition / Jeffries or Balkman
Melo / Fields
Shumpert / Douglas or Bibby or Walker
Davis / PG acquisition

[Mr Knick]

People stop blaming Amare for a poor team defensive effert tonight. You can blame Douglas, Fields & Melo bad defense, just as much as you can blame Amare lack of D tonight. How about the Toronto L, should we also blame that on Amare also?

they dont understand that

I agree also, there was a ton of blame to go around. Besides just bashing Amare, besides Shumpert there was little defense played.

[Marty McFly]

while i would not be against trading him, i think it would be unfair to him. we've been just as good with him, as we've been with him and melo. I'm not lobbying to get anyone traded, but if what i first mentioned is the case, you might as well thinking about dealing melo if you're gonna think about dealing stat.

for the record i love melo. i would pick him over every sf in the game, and yes that included james simply because we know which got has the cojones to go for the kill when it matters.

i just think that if you're going to move stat and you don't think you're getting equal value in return, you have to consider moving the guy that actually might bring the equal value back. whatever that might be.

that's just something we have to consider if it gets that bad around here.

[rsavaj]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2008/ ... e#10322582

I wrote that comment in 2008. 3 years ago I had some of the same concerns you guys have about Amare now.

Edit: I know I look foolish for putting Bosh's name up there with Wade and Lebron but 3 years ago he was beasting it!

[Pharmcat]

If this is the first play of the game, fine.

But when this is the 4th quarter with your team down big and needing some fire and intensity from their leadership, and this dude has been personally whipping you like you're Denzel in Glory the whole game, how can this play possibly be interpreted as anything less than poor effort, lack of heart, and no accountability?

I'm not even kidding when I say I'd rather have seen him draw a flagrant and multiple game suspension for punching Diaw in the back of the head on the way to the basket after he got beat, just so it would be obvious he at least gave a sh*t. He just doesn't care about defense at this point. He gives it awesome lip service in the press, but nothing beyond that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5DSa742msc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Amar'e sucked no doubt last night. He was one of the big reasons for us getting destroyed. Maybe his ankle isn't fully healed but he rushed back knowing how bad our team is right now.

Even then, I look at that clip and wonder, why is our $14M defensive center not guarding Charlotte's center who already burned us 8-9x that night? At what point does D'Antoni make an adjustment? Why is our center caught guarding the perimeter? Oh right, cause we're constantly switching on every pick and rolls, leaving Douglas/Shump guarding a big man while Tyson is contesting Augustin.

Love this defensive philosophy.

"Defensively, we're going to be doing the same thing we did last year." -D'Antoni

there is no 1 but amare to blame for his performance

even if tc guarded diaw, whoever amare was on would then dominate, amare is that awful of a defender

[melo mvp 15]

I doubt the Knicks could get anything considered "good value" for Amar'e.

A few people have mentioned this, but I don't think we need to get equal value back. It would be a case of addition by subtraction.

If we can add 2 decent rotation players, we could move forward without having our players play out of position. Preferably, one of these players would be a competent point guard that can buy us time while B Diddy recovers or can play big minutes if Diddy turns out to be a chucker.

New rotation:

Tyson / Jorts
PF acquisition / Jeffries or Balkman
Melo / Fields
Shumpert / Douglas or Bibby or Walker
Davis / PG acquisition

Scola, Josh Smith or Bargnani?

[Desttro]

I have given up on him as a defender, and I don't believe he isn't trying. He just has terrible instincts, overplays every movement the player he guards makes, and is incapable of staying in front of his man when he has the ball.

His rebounding however, is not a lost cause. I have actually seen him box out in the GS game and on occasion in others, and I couldn't believe my eyes. I'll settle for him just getting better at doing that.

Offensively, once he gets his mid range jumper going he will be fine. Can't wait to see him work the PnR with Davis.

[NY1Knick]

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen since I have been following threads here. Amare deserves to be ridiculed for his incredibly poor defensive play, shot selection and maybe his shooting slump but the level of ire that being displayed makes no sense. His willingness to come here has made our team relevant and arguably brought us Chandler and Melo despite product on the court. While the media states that our big city market is a draw for top flight free agents, recent history shows that our organization has been a pawn for top flight free agents to take advantage of a bigger payday from the teams they played a season ago or another preferred club. With so few games and significant personnel changes it is way to soon to overreact so much. During the last lock out shortened season Grunfeld lost his job when that knick group didn't meet expectations immediately as quickly as expected and they made it to the finals. I am not saying we are finals bound but give it some time. Baron isn't playing yet which may be the best thing for STAT. Hopefully he will control the game and put him in a position to be effective. Since the season began STAT hasn't been given the ball in the areas he operates best. Chandler has become the main pick and roll target despite his limited offensive ability and at times Chandler has been forced to produce in the pick and roll in areas of the court extend beyond the scope of his offensive game. Sadly Amare has arguably become our teams fourth scoring option. Melo is clearly first (look at his shot volume, spotty shot selection and poor field goal percentage), followed by TD (jacking up and missing a ton of threes), Chandler comes in third (he now has Amare's pick and roll role and while the alleys are great there has been multiple misplays with it), Amare becomes the fourth scoring option attempting to create his own shot which is not his game. Plays need to be run for all our players within a fluid offensive scheme but its not happening. We have become a one man show (featuring who ever has the ball...mainly Melo) or a two man team (starring Chandler and who ever is facilitating the pick and roll). Amare has his share blame in this situation between the poor defense, missing open jump shots, and his shot selection but what we are missing most is his leadership. His leadership turned us around last season after a poor start. It is too early to turn our backs to the guy that brought NY back.

[NY1Knick]

Sorry for the long post

[AllanHoustonFan]

Sorry for the long post

Advice: No one is going to read your giant wall-o-text. Edit your post and make paragraphs!

[Sprewell4Three]

Most of our defensive breakdowns is due to Amare's terrible awareness on Defense. It's 85% his fault that we allow teams to go off on us. His lazyness on defense is absolutely inexcusable...you're getting paid 20+ a year and you can't give any effort on defense?

[Mr Knick]

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen since I have been following threads here. Amare deserves to be ridiculed for his incredibly poor defensive play, shot selection and maybe his shooting slump but the level of ire that being displayed makes no sense. His willingness to come here has made our team relevant and arguably brought us Chandler and Melo despite product on the court. While the media states that our big city market is a draw for top flight free agents, recent history shows that our organization has been a pawn for top flight free agents to take advantage of a bigger payday from the teams they played a season ago or another preferred club. With so few games and significant personnel changes it is way to soon to overreact so much. During the last lock out shortened season Grunfeld lost his job when that knick group didn't meet expectations immediately as quickly as expected and they made it to the finals. I am not saying we are finals bound but give it some time. Baron isn't playing yet which may be the best thing for STAT. Hopefully he will control the game and put him in a position to be effective. Since the season began STAT hasn't been given the ball in the areas he operates best. Chandler has become the main pick and roll target despite his limited offensive ability and at times Chandler has been forced to produce in the pick and roll in areas of the court extend beyond the scope of his offensive game. Sadly Amare has arguably become our teams fourth scoring option. Melo is clearly first (look at his shot volume, spotty shot selection and poor field goal percentage), followed by TD (jacking up and missing a ton of threes), Chandler comes in third (he now has Amare's pick and roll role and while the alleys are great there has been multiple misplays with it), Amare becomes the fourth scoring option attempting to create his own shot which is not his game. Plays need to be run for all our players within a fluid offensive scheme but its not happening. We have become a one man show (featuring who ever has the ball...mainly Melo) or a two man team (starring Chandler and who ever is facilitating the pick and roll). Amare has his share blame in this situation between the poor defense, missing open jump shots, and his shot selection but what we are missing most is his leadership. His leadership turned us around last season after a poor start. It is too early to turn our backs to the guy that brought NY back.

+1 great post!

[marcuz]

• There are also indications that Brooklyn isn't viewed as the only avenue for Howard to give Adidas a foothold in New York. With the Knicks (2-4) off to an abysmal start -- losing at home to Toronto and Charlotte this week on the second night of back-to-backs for both substandard teams -- already there are rumblings of discord on the coaching staff. The confusion and lack of commitment to new defensive assistant Mike Woodson's schemes is painfully evident -- "We're trying to improvise on the fly, and you can't do that," defensive stalwart Tyson Chandler said -- as is the tenuous situation for head coach Mike D'Antoni. If the acquisition of Anthony last February wasn't evidence enough, the addition of Woodson has only underscored how D'Antoni's influence within the organization has waned. D'Antoni is coaching in the final year of his contract without an extension offer forthcoming, an issue that threatens to consume whatever momentum the Knicks built last season.

If the Knicks keep struggling, the focus will spread from the coaching to the roster, and sources advise not to be surprised if the notion of a possible deal sending Amar'e Stoudemire to Orlando for Howard gains traction. If the Magic opt to convert Howard into a superstar of reasonably comparable stature, they could do a lot worse than selling Stoudemire -- a central Florida native -- to their restless fan base. The biggest issue would be Stoudemire's uninsurable knees, but there is risk involved in every scenario Orlando will be presented with between now and March 15. From the Knicks' standpoint, such an arrangement would break up the ill-fitting offensive combo of Stoudemire and Anthony and allow the versatile Chandler to move to the power forward spot, where he'd be a terror as a weak-side shot blocker and in Stoudemire's spot as the roll man in D'Antoni's pick-and-roll offense. A deeper question exists in whether Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan would sign off on trading Stoudemire, who was the only star willing to commit to the Knicks and embrace the challenges of New York in July 2010. For the aforementioned reasons, sources say it's plausible but unlikely that the Knicks and Orlando would be able to get any such talks off the ground. For one thing, it makes too much sense.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1673 ... d-saga-end

[KnicksScholar24]

I'm pretty sure I said all of this last year about Amar'e. I was pissed off every game from his lack of boxing out and always leaving him man or always letting his man get between him in the basket. It happened routinely last season. I don't see why all of a sudden now it's unbearable.

I had hope that Woodson and Chandler would help Stoudemire in that he would learn better off-the-ball defense under Woodson and Chandler would take the paint protector role from him so he could focus on his own guy, but so far none of those things happened.

I'm not on the trade Amar'e bandwagon, unless of course the Magic are scared of losing Dwight Howard for nothing and are willing to do a Stoudemire/Howard swap. Amar'e is from Florida and is a perennial all-star. Other than that, I would just keep Stoudemire and hope that the team "gets it" defensively soon. Although, I think that's unlikely under _'Antoni and his switch heavy defensive schemes.

I'm just happy to see Shumpert in there, and once Davis comes back the offense will be potent enough that the team can allow a few defensive lapses. A silver lining is that since the Knicks play no defensive, they have the same chance of beating the Heat as they do the Bobcats. Which means in a 7-game series the Knicks can still do some damage in the playoffs against any team, assuming they tighten up the defense/rebounding a bit, and Davis & Shumpert really gets the offense rolling.

Amar'e is who is he and I don't think the Knicks trade him unless Howard or LeBron become available. When he's lousing up the joint defensively, just put Jeffries or Harrellson in. When Melo is lousing up the joint defensively put in Balkman, Jeffries, or Shumpert. Also, Tyson Chandler has been really disappointing to me on the boards. He played 40 minutes last game and only grabbed 6 rebounds. He HAS to do better than that. BJ Mullens dunked on his back because he didn't box out and was slow to grab the board.

I still have hope that this team will be playing a lot better in a few weeks... but their defense now is just sad.

[Pharmcat]

amare for howard?

wake up donnie get it done

[Knicker23]

amare for howard?

wake up donnie get it done

Tyson and Howard on the same team?

[Pharmcat]

amare for howard?

wake up donnie get it done

Tyson and Howard on the same team?

cross that bridge when you get there

but ship out amare at first chance