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Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert

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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#141 » by KnicksScholar24 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:32 pm

bornaknick1 wrote:He's a below average 2 guard and a decent rotation player at best. He has shown little to no improvement since his rookie year and has regressed as a shooter. His ball-handling is terrible and defensively has been as bad as everyone on this team. Going 0'fer on the stat sheet in 20 plus minutes of play is inexcusable for a NBA player, never mind a starter. Trade rumors don't create terrible play on that level.

Fact is he was overhyped by most Knick fans for a) having a cool haircut b) having a cool personality c) being athletic. He showed some flashes in his rookie year but its clear he won't show much more than that. Definitely not untradeable as one of our few viable assets.


Almost every Knicks rookie (since the Layden era), that I can remember, has regressed in their 2nd/3rd year with the team. It happened to Sweetney, Balkman, Collins, Ariza, Frye, Fields, etc. Lee & Robinson were one of the few that continued to improve or at least maintained.

I thought Shumpert had the work ethic and the right attitude to keep improving, but I think knee(s), trade rumors, lack of Chandler, overall low team effort due to losing, and little to no work done on his game in the off-season (possible due to knee surgery) have all combine in the perfect storm of mediocrity we are seeing. This is/was Shumperts show-and-prove year that should define the trajectory of his NBA career and he has disappointed. He has shown no discernible improvement in any of his weaknesses, and his strengths (defense, high energy/effort, & spot-up 3-point shooting) haven't even been good/consistent. His draft profile said he was an inconsistent shooter and his 40% career NBA FG% is evidence of that. There shouldn't be anything more than mild disappointment from NY fans about his shooting.

I say bench Udrih and start Shumpert at PG. Make him take a more active part of the game, and not just go through the motions waiting to be traded.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#142 » by GONYK » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:33 pm

KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127 wrote:I'm pretty sure Steve Mills started this thread. Why is all the blame on Shump? Felton when healthy has done 0. Prigonio has contributed nothing. Kmart has been better offensively than defensively. Chandlers out. Hardaway jr has proven to be nothing more than Renaldo Balkman without dreads. And JR doesn't belong in the D league right now. Shump is one of the few positives on this team why would you trade him? Because Dolan is a moron? You guys need to understand talent. Never mind the fact the kid had major knee surgery oh and another mysterious knee surgery this summer. Shump just had 5 steals 2 games ago. Everybody relax Shump is far from the problem of this team.


Felton hasn't been healthy this whole season
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#143 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:33 pm

god shammgod wrote:
thisiskoz wrote:if only some of the difference makers on this team got this kind of support...


If you're young and you were drafted here you can do no wrong


Its called player development. Its something that takes time and patience when you draft a player. Its simply unrealistic to expect Shump to have no downs especially in this environment. His value is low right now so there's no choice but to just hold onto him.

When you trade or sign a player who has been in the league for 7+ years it is a totally different situation.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#144 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:37 pm

He has only played 130 games total. Thats less then 2 seasons. Then throw in that he had a major knee injury and I'm sure much of his off the court work has been spent just trying to get back physically. And you guys expect him not to go through any bad stretches and be a finished product? smh
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#145 » by makeitstop » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:37 pm

KnicksScholar24 wrote:I say bench Udrih and start Shumpert at PG.


Kid's got no handles, and you want him to be the starting PG?
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#146 » by seren » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:38 pm

I personally think Shumpert sucks, so we should trade him for CP3.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#147 » by god shammgod » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:43 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
thisiskoz wrote:if only some of the difference makers on this team got this kind of support...


If you're young and you were drafted here you can do no wrong


Its called player development. Its something that takes time and patience when you draft a player. Its simply unrealistic to expect Shump to have no downs especially in this environment. His value is low right now so there's no choice but to just hold onto him.

When you trade or sign a player who has been in the league for 7+ years it is a totally different situation.


I'm fine with ups and downs. But not everybody has unlimited potential to develop. I'm not insisting we trade him either. These comments are just annoying. Why not talk about having to do a better job defensively. Look inward at what you can do. Even dumbass jr blames himself when he's not playing well.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#148 » by thisiskoz » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:50 pm

god... the excuses made for this kid are unbelievable... the kid has one proven skillset... and thats using his length and athleticism to get in the passing lanes... thats it... yes... his outside shot has improved... and he has developed a decent pull up off the dribble... and while its true he plays good defense sometimes... honestly... he has done nothing to improve or sustain his rep as an elite perimeter defender since year 1... he struggles to stay in front of guys... and his gambles end up hurting the team more than helping it because of the systems we run... and thats why woodson yells at him so much...

dont get me wrong... i like the kid... and think he can find success in the right system... but until his handle improves... along with his ability to finish... hes a 3 and d guy at most... certainly nowhere close to westbrook... thats just laughable...
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#149 » by kakaman » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:52 pm

bornaknick1 wrote:
kakaman wrote:This organization is a disaster. All the young assets the Knicks have end up going through character assassination for not being superstars. Guess what, he was drafted late 1st round! No one thought he was going to be the cornerstone of a championship! The fans did this to Landry, now Shump is going through the same thing. I hope he gets traded so he leaves this damn mess. Once he leaves I look forward to you all complaining about our poor perimeter defense.

Landry was/is terrible, as is his contract. You really think it was a mistake to let him go?


No because Toronto overpaid to prevent the Knicks from getting Nash. However, the fact is he's coming back from injury and showed he was a valuable rotation player while he was here. Both Fields and Shump have shown similar level of play during their time with the Knicks, and now that things are going poorly, the fans are lashing out at them. This is the equivalent of Heat fans blaming Chalmers for losing in 2011.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#150 » by Johnny Hoops » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:52 pm

thisiskoz wrote:god... the excuses made for this kid are unbelievable... the kid has one proven skillset... and thats using his length and athleticism to get in the passing lanes... thats it... yes... his outside shot has improved... and he has developed a decent pull up off the dribble... and while its true he plays good defense sometimes... honestly... he has done nothing to improve or sustain his rep as an elite perimeter defender since year 1... he struggles to stay in front of guys... and his gambles end up hurting the team more than helping it because of the systems we run... and thats why woodson yells at him so much...

dont get me wrong... i like the kid... and think he can find success in the right system... but until his handle improves... along with his ability to finish... hes a 3 and d guy at most... certainly nowhere close to westbrook... thats just laughable...


I agree with 100% of this.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#151 » by gavran » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:59 pm

god shammgod wrote:
thisiskoz wrote:if only some of the difference makers on this team got this kind of support...


If you're young and you were drafted here you can do no wrong

Yeah, because noone on these boards trash the hell out of any Knicks draft pick once they reach their 2nd season. Shumpert was lucky he had that ACL injury, he bought himself some time.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#152 » by makeitstop » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:59 pm

kakaman wrote:No because Toronto overpaid to prevent the Knicks from getting Nash. However, the fact is he's coming back from injury and showed he was a valuable rotation player while he was here. Both Fields and Shump have shown similar level of play during their time with the Knicks, and now that things are going poorly, the fans are lashing out at them. This is the equivalent of Heat fans blaming Chalmers for losing in 2011.


Fields ain't exactly setting the world on fire in Toronto, either.

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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#153 » by gavran » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:01 pm

thisiskoz wrote:
dont get me wrong... i like the kid... and think he can find success in the right system... but until his handle improves... along with his ability to finish... hes a 3 and d guy at most... certainly nowhere close to westbrook... thats just laughable...

Who said he was Westbrook? Only the homers, and you, who want to make up excuses for trashing him/other fans on this board.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#154 » by thisiskoz » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:09 pm

gavran wrote:
thisiskoz wrote:
dont get me wrong... i like the kid... and think he can find success in the right system... but until his handle improves... along with his ability to finish... hes a 3 and d guy at most... certainly nowhere close to westbrook... thats just laughable...

Who said he was Westbrook? Only the homers, and you, who want to make up excuses for trashing him/other fans on this board.


hahahaha... did you not read the thread???

no where did i generalize and say that most people think hes westbrook... it was a jab at a single discussion point in this very thread... cmon on now...
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#155 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:11 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
god shammgod wrote:

If you're young and you were drafted here you can do no wrong


Its called player development. Its something that takes time and patience when you draft a player. Its simply unrealistic to expect Shump to have no downs especially in this environment. His value is low right now so there's no choice but to just hold onto him.

When you trade or sign a player who has been in the league for 7+ years it is a totally different situation.


I'm fine with ups and downs. But not everybody has unlimited potential to develop. I'm not insisting we trade him either. These comments are just annoying. Why not talk about having to do a better job defensively. Look inward at what you can do. Even dumbass jr blames himself when he's not playing well.


yeah, I agree with that. The comments are annoying and he doesn't have star potential. But he still has some potential to develop into a solid player.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#156 » by [GR] » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:14 pm

All that "swag" is bravado. The boy ain't built for this. Perfect example:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWSEuxZCmC4&list[/youtube]



Look at him just sulk after
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#157 » by blueNorange » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:19 pm

it's funny because it's the same script, different story

new guys comes in(hardaway jr) and everyone wants to stop playing with the old toy(shumpert). i'm pretty sure most think hardaway jr is a potential 20 ppg scorer in the nba, but when he doesn't reach those numbers people will want to dump him for the newest toy(2015 first rounder)

there's many posters here who believe shumpert is a 16+ ppg scorer, sorry if he didn't reach your expectations.
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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#158 » by bigfnjoe96 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:20 pm

I brought up Westbrook. My comparison is fair. Where it falls though is that OKC kept Westbrook as a PG and allowed him to learn his craft, while the Knicks killed Shump as a PG less than half a season into his rookie year.

Yeah his dribbling isn't great but that doesn't mean he couldn't work on it as our PG.

Now we got him playing the 2/3 which is somewhat killing his confidence.


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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#159 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:22 pm

[GR] wrote:All that "swag" is bravado. The boy ain't built for this. Perfect example:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWSEuxZCmC4&list[/youtube]



Look at him just sulk after


Nice job by Bargs setting that pick and tripping Shump. :lol:

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Re: Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert 

Post#160 » by shmeakone » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:23 pm

[GR] wrote:All that "swag" is bravado. The boy ain't built for this. Perfect example:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWSEuxZCmC4&list[/youtube]



Look at him just sulk after

That was 98% Bargnani's fault. He flippin' set a screen on Shump!
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