Knicks thinking unthinkable with excelling Bargnani: a return?

emo · Post #141 » by **emo** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 7:56 pm

Yes please.

god shammgod · Post #142 » by **god shammgod** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 7:56 pm

emo wrote:Yes please.

Post #143 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:04 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I'd make a lot of calls before even thinking about Bargs...I know we wouldnt get some of these guys for the min, but i would pay a little more

Ed Davis, Kosta Koufos, Amir Johnson, Brandon Bass, Brendan Wright, Thomas Robinson, Jonas Jerebko, Lavoy Allen, Alexis Ajinca, Omri Casspi, Kevin Seraphin, Jeff Ayres

I whittled down your list to the above of who I'd take over Bargs. J Hill and Speights have team options that I imagine will be picked up. O'Quinn is restricted. Guys like Darell Arthur, Luke Babbit, Amundson, and Elton Brand (don't know if he's done or not) could be added too. Most of these players are not getting the minimum though, and the only way I'd want Bargs back is at the minimum.

I'm sure we're going to target a few of these dudes with or without Bargs because we flat out need bodies, but Bargs is decent emergency offense insurance. Can't say any of the listed bigs could carry an offense like he can. I haven't been watching the games much but he's been a huge reason this team of complete scrubs has even been semi competitive lately. My thing is I don't know if he can be a good bench player or not.

Our starting front court right now could be an alright bench front court. Bargs and Amundson complement each other well. Add Towns or Okafor and a few of the above bigs and we should be good.

It would be a low risk, emergency move, or whatever but I wouldn’t even take him for that. Its just a waste. Of course he looks ok now. There is no pressure, nobody cares and he is the #1 guy with a bunch of scrubs on a terrible team. That’s the only role he’s decent at. When the going gets tough he will be the first to fold or get hurt or just wont fit in with a team trying to win. Maybe after 10 years in the league he will finally figure it out, or maybe it’s the same old Bargs. I really have no interest to find out. Roster spots are too valuable to waste on that bum. He should have no place on our team. Give me someone on the bench with some heart that gives a damn over a bum.

Indeed · Post #144 » by **Indeed** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:11 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
strangespot wrote:Jason Smith is a good comparison, he makes 3.3mil this year if I got that correct. from a skill/age perspective, he is a good comparison, only that Bargansi IMO is better. So I wouldn't see why he would take or would be offered only the minimum

Barnyarni is definitely better than Smith. But the issue as I understand it is more about his inability to stay on the court. So, if we do decide to resign him for a reasonable contract, Phil better make sure that there's a provision in it which requires that Bargs remain under training staff observation and protocols the entire off season. No Italy.

I wonder the injury issue is it because he is injury prone? Or was he trying to do more than he could due to lack of talent?
It happened in Toronto that he is asked to do more than he could, take the scoring role and defend C, playing 35 mins each night. However, his body cannot sustain 35 mins, as he is a PF body (quick enough to guard most PF, except for SF size PF).

If he remains in a role that works in his style, I don't think he will injure himself that often. But I think it is also the coach asking him to do too much that caused him the injury.

Phish Tank · Post #145 » by **Phish Tank** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:15 pm

Berman wrote this.... nuff said

don't panac · Post #146 » by **don't panac** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:29 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
strangespot wrote:Jason Smith is a good comparison, he makes 3.3mil this year if I got that correct. from a skill/age perspective, he is a good comparison, only that Bargansi IMO is better. So I wouldn't see why he would take or would be offered only the minimum

Barnyarni is definitely better than Smith. But the issue as I understand it is more about his inability to stay on the court. So, if we do decide to resign him for a reasonable contract, Phil better make sure that there's a provision in it which requires that Bargs remain under training staff observation and protocols the entire off season. No Italy.

even better would be to tie the contract to games played, but as i understand it from other posters, this might not be allowed under current CBA.

in any case, unless he breaks down again before the end of the season, if he keep it up like this i think he will be easily offered a contract in the range of 12-15 mil for 3 years.
people talking about the vet minimum don't have a clue on what big men are valued. it is just ludicrous, unless he gets injured again. in which case even that might doubtful.

Marty McFly · Post #147 » by **Marty McFly** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:42 pm

As the wheelchair once said, one player is good at one price and bad at another price.

NYKinMIA · Post #148 » by **NYKinMIA** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:46 pm

Only if we can pay the muthafuqa in garlic.

Post #149 » by **moocow007** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:52 pm

don't panac wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
strangespot wrote:Jason Smith is a good comparison, he makes 3.3mil this year if I got that correct. from a skill/age perspective, he is a good comparison, only that Bargansi IMO is better. So I wouldn't see why he would take or would be offered only the minimum

Barnyarni is definitely better than Smith. But the issue as I understand it is more about his inability to stay on the court. So, if we do decide to resign him for a reasonable contract, Phil better make sure that there's a provision in it which requires that Bargs remain under training staff observation and protocols the entire off season. No Italy.

even better would be to tie the contract to games played, but as i understand it from other posters, this might not be allowed under current CBA.

in any case, unless he breaks down again before the end of the season, if he keep it up like this i think he will be easily offered a contract in the range of 12-15 mil for 3 years.
people talking about the vet minimum don't have a clue on what big men are valued. it is just ludicrous, unless he gets injured again. in which case even that might doubtful.

Sure but I think this debate has gone down the philosophical debate between those that think Bargnani is absolute trash no matter what vs. those that think everything is relative (the "if he can be had for cheap enough then sure" argument).

Worst_to_First · Post #150 » by **Worst_to_First** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 9:28 pm

Indeed wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Amundsen is fine. But that is 1 backup big. Assuming we draft one of the bigs (okafor/towns) and sign a FA to play the other position. We still need to fill out the roster with 3-4 additional bigs.

So Amundsen is one. What additional 2 to 3 bigs are you looking at signing for the minimum to round out the bench?

If given a choice, I'd pencil in Melo as a PF so I would be okay with only 4 bigs in the roster especially if we land Towns in the draft as he can play PF in certain match ups. So aside from Amundson, I'd bring in guys who already know the system so Cole Aldrich is one. The last slot, which we will probably need the room exception for, I will use for Jason Smith. I have a feeling that some team out there would spend the MLE on Bargs, especially if it is only for a one year contract.

MLE should have more than 1 year.
I don't think Bargnani bargains much about the money, but some teams may pay for a stretch big, and mask his rotation off the bench.

Apologies, I was thinking along the lines of the MMLE type of deal we gave Jason Smith.

Pharmcat · Post #151 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 9:32 pm

if team retools for next season, sure why not on a vet min

but if its a rebuild no thanks

Stannis · Post #152 » by **Stannis** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 9:48 pm

"Post defense"? hehe

Anyway, not sure why they would resign him.

I keep forgetting that he's actually on our team.

Sark · Post #153 » by **Sark** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:07 pm

shmeakone wrote:2 year 4 mil deal, 2nd year team option.

That's the type of deal he would take to play for a contender like the Spurs. No one is going to play for a discount to be on the Knicks.

Rasho Brezec · Post #154 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:13 pm

Contender? Retooling? The **** are you some of you smoking? This dude is the king of lotto teams. The few times he was on a playoff team they were better with him on the bench. Stop rationalizing it. The vet min is a terrible deal.

Indeed · Post #155 » by **Indeed** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:14 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
If given a choice, I'd pencil in Melo as a PF so I would be okay with only 4 bigs in the roster especially if we land Towns in the draft as he can play PF in certain match ups. So aside from Amundson, I'd bring in guys who already know the system so Cole Aldrich is one. The last slot, which we will probably need the room exception for, I will use for Jason Smith. I have a feeling that some team out there would spend the MLE on Bargs, especially if it is only for a one year contract.

MLE should have more than 1 year.
I don't think Bargnani bargains much about the money, but some teams may pay for a stretch big, and mask his rotation off the bench.

Apologies, I was thinking along the lines of the MMLE type of deal we gave Jason Smith.

I believe that was used "Taxplayer Mid-Level" exception, which I am not sure you are going over the tax again. You can use "Room Mid-Level" exception, but if you are under the cap, I wonder why you are using it. Perhaps you can use a MLE and a Bi-Annual after you get 2 star players (perhaps by trading down to do S&T) to raise your salary near the tax, then use the regular MLE and a Bi-Annual Exception. I was assuming you are using Bi-Annual on Amundson and vet-min on Thomas, since I assume it is harder to get someone like Bargnani than Amundson, which leaves the full MLE (you can split it, but it would be 3 - 4 years, I believe).

Indeed · Post #156 » by **Indeed** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:22 pm

don't panac wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
strangespot wrote:Jason Smith is a good comparison, he makes 3.3mil this year if I got that correct. from a skill/age perspective, he is a good comparison, only that Bargansi IMO is better. So I wouldn't see why he would take or would be offered only the minimum

Barnyarni is definitely better than Smith. But the issue as I understand it is more about his inability to stay on the court. So, if we do decide to resign him for a reasonable contract, Phil better make sure that there's a provision in it which requires that Bargs remain under training staff observation and protocols the entire off season. No Italy.

even better would be to tie the contract to games played, but as i understand it from other posters, this might not be allowed under current CBA.

in any case, unless he breaks down again before the end of the season, if he keep it up like this i think he will be easily offered a contract in the range of 12-15 mil for 3 years.
people talking about the vet minimum don't have a clue on what big men are valued. it is just ludicrous, unless he gets injured again. in which case even that might doubtful.

And I guess what type of bigs people are comparing to.
If it is a stretch big, who can make 3 point shots, MLE would be the norm. Someone similar to Spencer Hawes would be making MLE for a contender.

Marty McFly · Post #157 » by **Marty McFly** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:23 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:Contender? Retooling? The **** are you some of you smoking? This dude is the king of lotto teams. The few times he was on a playoff team they were better with him on the bench. Stop rationalizing it. The vet min is a terrible deal.

god shammgod wrote:
emo wrote:Yes please.

louieOrr · Post #158 » by **louieOrr** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:28 pm

NYKinMIA wrote:Only if we can pay the muthafuqa in garlic.

Oh you. Thats just rich!

Cause us Scungilli eatin mothafuqa's use LOTS of GARLIC in our cooking.

What a daybreaker!

strangespot · Post #159 » by **strangespot** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:32 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
strangespot wrote:Jason Smith is a good comparison, he makes 3.3mil this year if I got that correct. from a skill/age perspective, he is a good comparison, only that Bargansi IMO is better. So I wouldn't see why he would take or would be offered only the minimum

Barnyarni is definitely better than Smith. But the issue as I understand it is more about his inability to stay on the court. So, if we do decide to resign him for a reasonable contract, Phil better make sure that there's a provision in it which requires that Bargs remain under training staff observation and protocols the entire off season. No Italy.

agreed, his last few years were tough from an injury point of view. but basically had no major injuries his first 4-5 years. His struggles started when in his last years in Toronto he played stretches with 40mpg then got injured and in his first game back I think he played over 40mins which made all worse... I think in a role were he is at 18-20 mpg he should be ok.

camillepd · Post #160 » by **camillepd** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 10:33 pm

no thanks.