Me7o Thread: Hoodie edition

mugzi · Post #141 » by **mugzi** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 am

vallen wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
vallen wrote:

Amare, Chandler, Kidd, the Rook. with a Dantoni system. They were supposed to dominate the east and compete with the big 3. That was the plan, it just didnt work. But on paper everyone fell for it.

Kidd played here one season, under Woodson, and we won 54 games
We lost to a very strong Indy team with a melo injury courteously of a dirty kg play

It wasn't falling for anything
It was a good team

But the problem comes with the entire team turning over year after year

1 more year and woodson is gone. Chandler too. Smith,shump, etc

Let's not be falsely revisionist

of course, it was a good team when they won, and when they couldnt, then nobody was put around him. but melo knew we could never truly put good pieces around him losing the haul we paid to get him. him agreeing to go to BRK, before going to FA cost us, and cost him. but for melo he got everything he wanted, winning would have just been a bonus.

truth is he didnt deserve quality players to bail him out, while he tanked defensively year in and year out. he never worked like true superstars work. probaby the exact reason his "friends" never tryed to play with him.

Stop making sense and being honest. Team Melo does not approve!

Post #142 » by **NoLayupRule** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 am

Greenie wrote:
louieOrr wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:for starters you can't look at it like a regular job because its one in the public eye, celebrity based, and his "brand" is his person

But to us a "regular job" analogy were talking about a job where your employers told you they were building the company around you and gave you a contract of the kind that would keep you from going to a competitor. To sweeten the pot they told you they couldn't break the contract, only you could. and then after a couple years they started badmouthing you around town and talked about your flaws as a professional. then they decided to move you and your contract. But you didn't want to go. So you said no. then a couple of your friends joined up and a rival company and you said ok, thats one place I'm willing to go to. not that you want to go but you will allow that one destination.

sorry, but thats not unreasonable

its lame for us as fans because we want to move Melo to a place thats gonna benefit this team

but its not melos fault
its the teams fault. all day long.

be pissed at Jackson

The regular job analogy comes because your original post sited non-basketball reasons as to why he wants to stay.

That's not a bad analogy you presented, but I think there are some things missing.

The company you mentioned above asked for a commitment to a certain way of doing things. The employee agreed, but did not follow through. All of this was somehow televised, so its not hearsay.

Reputation in most businesses is everything. Most fans had no problem when Phil called out JR and Shump publically.

Was the information about Melo untrue?

You also took out the relocation dynamic in your scenario. So that contracted employee doesn't want to leave the company, because he loves the city, and he doesn't want to uproot/spend time away from his child. If that's the case you wouldn't want to go to your friends startup company in Houston.

No one is playing the blame game, but lets not make him a Martyr either.

What didn't Melo follow through on?
He's an offensive player. That's his bread and butter. He performed. We didn't have enough to win with him.

It would be like getting mad a Ben Wallace for being **** on offense after handling him a max contract

To be fair melo phoned it in on defense quite a bit and hasn't always been the most coachable player

No, it's not his fault that Lin left
No it's not his fault that amare didn't work
No it's not his fault that the team couldn't win with B level guys around him. At best.

But yes, he phoned it in on d, held the ball too often and tended to freeze out coaches when the team struggled.

Post #143 » by **NoLayupRule** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:43 am

Billy Goat wrote:
Greenie wrote:
louieOrr wrote:
Ball Sharing. Create offense through strong defense. Stick with the system even when it gets tough. Leading by example through maximum effort. To take his game to the next level. Buy into the system and sell teammates into the system. That's what was asked of him by Phil. Phil was outspoken in those expectations from jump. Believe it or not I got love for Melo too. I expected more of him because I believe he had it in him. One of the reasons Phil took the job was that he thought he could take his game to that next level.

Ben Wallace didn't lack the will to play offense. He lacked the talent.

I don't think we have ever had enough to win with him. 2013 was just a small sample of what it could have been like if we did.

SHARE WITH WHO!
People love saying this but forget the damn rosters we placed together. The second best player here with Melo was Tyson Chandler. Stop saying share. There was no one to share with!

There's always players to share with when the alternative is taking long two point shots(the worst shot a player can take). Efficiency wins. Stupid shooting, which Melo has made a career of, loses. I dont care about the teammates thing. Take less stupid shots.

No
Not always

To be fair melo has had the worst supporting cast of any star in modern memory

Truly

What a parade of clowns, overhyped bench players and end of career check cashers. Not to mention the coaching turnover.

The best pg melo played with was 3 weeks of Lin dominating the ball and then going down with a boo boo.

The best center was 1 year of chandler before he just folded.

The best sg was jr frickin smith

The best of was amare until finally Kp when it was too late.

Bad bad and worse

Post #144 » by **NoLayupRule** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:45 am

knicks85 wrote:People giving melo a pass for not being a team player because he didn't have a bonafide all star..his refusal to pass, breaking plays and unwillingness to play defense should not be contingent upon whose next to you...
people forget what Hornys 13-14 playoffs Suns team consisted of...they made the playoffs without all star talent because players bought in ...

Melo is what everyone has said he is an unyielding selfish me first play layer who will never win

Kobe was everything melo was with a real team around him

In equal situations they aren't far apart

Which I know is blasphemy but whatever

3toheadmelo · Post #145 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:45 am

Greenie wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:That's really the key, right? We all expected and wanted more of him, based on what we offered him in the contract. It doesn't mean he's garbage to say he didn't perform well enough.

Meh... I thought he performed well enough IMO....

I mean for me we got what we expected. A scoring machine. We just failed to build around him like every team should for their franchise player.

Everyone was expecting us to be the team to challenge the Heat when we got him. We did the complete opposite

We placed the worst fits/talent/coaching around him.

People wanna bring up the last 3 years when dude was here totally alone?

I keep doing this:

Dalembert
Smith
Melo
Shumpert
Calderon

What the fuq did you want him to do? Perform miracles? Phil installed an offense no one could run...except Melo and traded our second best player for trash. In other words he assembled a tank squad and expected Melo to make it look good.

Exactly
But they don't wanna hear that. Facts hurt

3toheadmelo · Post #146 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:48 am

BKlutch wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Greenie wrote:
What didn't Melo follow through on?
He's an offensive player. That's his bread and butter. He performed. We didn't have enough to win with him.

It would be like getting mad a Ben Wallace for being **** on offense after handling him a mac contract

Some people was expecting him to be Lebron.....

Actually, I expected him to make us better. I expected him to try hard to play within our offense, and yes, to play better defense. I didn't expect him to elevate the team to championship level, like Lebron does, but I hoped he'd make us better. He didn't have much of a beneficial effect at all. He was a disappointment to lots of Knicks fans.

My man look at our record with Melo and then without him. Drastic difference. He def makes the team better.

3toheadmelo · Post #147 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:48 am

blueNorange wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:That's really the key, right? We all expected and wanted more of him, based on what we offered him in the contract. It doesn't mean he's garbage to say he didn't perform well enough.

Meh... I thought he performed well enough IMO....

I mean for me we got what we expected. A scoring machine. We just failed to build around him like every team should for their franchise player.

Everyone was expecting us to be the team to challenge the Heat when we got him. We did the complete opposite

We placed the worst fits/talent/coaching around him.

melo isnt a scoring machine though.

Ok

Billy Goat · Post #148 » by **Billy Goat** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:52 am

NoLayupRule wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Greenie wrote:
SHARE WITH WHO!
People love saying this but forget the damn rosters we placed together. The second best player here with Melo was Tyson Chandler. Stop saying share. There was no one to share with!

There's always players to share with when the alternative is taking long two point shots(the worst shot a player can take). Efficiency wins. Stupid shooting, which Melo has made a career of, loses. I dont care about the teammates thing. Take less stupid shots.

No
Not always

To be fair melo has had the worst supporting cast of any star in modern memory

Truly

What a parade of clowns, overhyped bench players and end of career check cashers. Not to mention the coaching turnover.

The best pg melo played with was 3 weeks of Lin dominating the ball and then going down with a boo boo.

The best center was 1 year of chandler before he just folded.

The best sg was jr frickin smith

The best of was amare until finally Kp when it was too late.

Bad bad and worse

You had two years of Chandler in his prime who was fantastic and carried the Knicks defensively also while being the most efficient player in the league. Lin, while overhyped, got basically run out of town by the vets on the team who didnt like his popularity. Melo is a bad shot taker. Bad shots, regardless of the personell loses games. Melo one every 5 games gets hot and then people justify him going 7-21 the following 4 games. Inefficiency loses. Dont take long two's. The Knicks are about 20 years behind in building a franchise.

Big FatKAT · Post #149 » by **Big FatKAT** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:52 am

NoLayupRule wrote:
knicks85 wrote:People giving melo a pass for not being a team player because he didn't have a bonafide all star..his refusal to pass, breaking plays and unwillingness to play defense should not be contingent upon whose next to you...
people forget what Hornys 13-14 playoffs Suns team consisted of...they made the playoffs without all star talent because players bought in ...

Melo is what everyone has said he is an unyielding selfish me first play layer who will never win

Kobe was everything melo was with a real team around him

In equal situations they aren't far apart

Which I know is blasphemy but whatever

Minus 12 all NBA defensive teams and plus 10 percent body fat..but yeah identical

Big FatKAT · Post #150 » by **Big FatKAT** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:53 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Some people was expecting him to be Lebron.....

Actually, I expected him to make us better. I expected him to try hard to play within our offense, and yes, to play better defense. I didn't expect him to elevate the team to championship level, like Lebron does, but I hoped he'd make us better. He didn't have much of a beneficial effect at all. He was a disappointment to lots of Knicks fans.

My man look at our record with Melo and then without him. Drastic difference. He def makes the team better.

Except lineups don't gel in 10 game spurts..

mugzi · Post #151 » by **mugzi** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:58 am

knicks85 wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
knicks85 wrote:People giving melo a pass for not being a team player because he didn't have a bonafide all star..his refusal to pass, breaking plays and unwillingness to play defense should not be contingent upon whose next to you...
people forget what Hornys 13-14 playoffs Suns team consisted of...they made the playoffs without all star talent because players bought in ...

Melo is what everyone has said he is an unyielding selfish me first play layer who will never win

Kobe was everything melo was with a real team around him

In equal situations they aren't far apart

Which I know is blasphemy but whatever

Minus 12 all NBA defensive teams and plus 10 percent body fat..but yeah identical

Ouch.

3toheadmelo · Post #152 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:04 am

knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
Actually, I expected him to make us better. I expected him to try hard to play within our offense, and yes, to play better defense. I didn't expect him to elevate the team to championship level, like Lebron does, but I hoped he'd make us better. He didn't have much of a beneficial effect at all. He was a disappointment to lots of Knicks fans.

My man look at our record with Melo and then without him. Drastic difference. He def makes the team better.

Except lineups don't gel in 10 game spurts..

Excuses

Big FatKAT · Post #153 » by **Big FatKAT** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:06 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:My man look at our record with Melo and then without him. Drastic difference. He def makes the team better.

Except lineups don't gel in 10 game spurts..

Excuses

It's not excuses it's reality..

Billy Goat · Post #154 » by **Billy Goat** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:10 am

knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
knicks85 wrote:Except lineups don't gel in 10 game spurts..

Excuses

It's not excuses it's reality..

In terms of Melo's games started they're probably around 35-40 games under .500 too.

3toheadmelo · Post #155 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:10 am

knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
knicks85 wrote:Except lineups don't gel in 10 game spurts..

Excuses

It's not excuses it's reality..

How come all those other teams have better records then?
Facts are facts.
This is why I want him traded. We're going to be one of the worst teams in the league.

Big FatKAT · Post #156 » by **Big FatKAT** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:13 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Excuses

It's not excuses it's reality..

How come all those other teams have better records then?
Facts are facts.
This is why I want him traded. We're going to be one of the worst teams in the league.

while I believe he improves a team thier is a lot more effective use of his cap hold..

3toheadmelo · Post #157 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:14 am

Billy Goat wrote:
knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Excuses

It's not excuses it's reality..

In terms of Melo's games started they're probably around 35-40 games under .500 too.

Sure. I won't deny that
There's only so much he can do with these **** rosters
Even still, the difference between him on and off the court is drastic.

Wolfgang630 · Post #158 » by **Wolfgang630** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:23 am

This is the path MElo chose....nobody told him to stay in an incompetent Knicks team, but he did for certain reasons.

Jalen Bluntson · Post #159 » by **Jalen Bluntson** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:41 am

knicks85 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
knicks85 wrote:It's not excuses it's reality..

How come all those other teams have better records then?
Facts are facts.
This is why I want him traded. We're going to be one of the worst teams in the league.
while I believe he improves a team thier is a lot more effective use of his cap hold..

He hurts the draft. That's the main reason I want him gone. I am also not a fan of his tendency to stop the ball or not really move much without it. The drama that is his legacy is also getting old.

The Knicks extreme incompetence hacked this whole Melo era to bits. His excessive demands haven't helped. He forced the pressure to get here by saying he'd go to Brooklyn. That cost us. Why did he want to be traded? Max money and he badly wanted out of Denver. He caused a HC to quit. He wanted to leave after and only stayed because he couldn't find another team in FA. Took a max/NTC/Kicker to stay when asked to help with cap flexibility. He left pennies on the table. Now the team wants to rebuild. He will only list 1 team. Tying our hands and forcing a dead market for him. Again costing us fair value.

Nothing to do with his talent. Not trashing his overall ability to help a team. He's just not helpful to the direction the team wants/needs to go. His demands this time are once again not in the best interests of the team. Good thing we don't seem to have a FO dumb enough to meet his demands one last time.

Houston needs to up their offer. Would really love to know what was offered to begin with. I don't recall that any credible sources confirmed any offers.

Greenie · Post #160 » by **Greenie** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:57 am

Billy Goat wrote:
knicks85 wrote:People giving melo a pass for not being a team player because he didn't have a bonafide all star..his refusal to pass, breaking plays and unwillingness to play defense should not be contingent upon whose next to you...
people forget what Hornys 13-14 playoffs Suns team consisted of...they made the playoffs without all star talent because players bought in ...

Melo is what everyone has said he is an unyielding selfish me first play layer who will never win

No one within the organization has ever challenged him on taking bad shots. ANd it looks like were headed down the same path with Porzingis. You know why the Knicks lose so much? It's because they're stupid and no one realizes why. Your two guys taking the most shots cant be taking long two's thinking they help you win. Houston has one star. They dont take bad shots and they win. Boston wins too.

A PG will fix a lot of that.