Did Phil fall asleep On Donovan Mitchell workout?

[Marty McFly]

Mitchell is the guy i thought could prove to be a paul george/kawhi type of draft pick in terms of value late in the lotto, but I'm trying to understand the purpose of this thread. are some of you guys going to do this every time someone selected ahead of frank shows a pulse?

You mean selected after, right?

yes.

[Jalen Bluntson]

See this is where all this becomes so confusing to me that it eventually becomes just a bunch of nonsense. The reality is that US has more talent, simple and plain. People can try to make up these silly excuses for why things are the way they are but when we get down to the nitty gritty, it's really simple. Europe doesn't have basketball developmental programs like the NCAA, there isn't one fundamental aspect of the game that Frank was taught in France which Donovan Mitchell wasn't taught by Pitino in Louisville. European PGs aren't coming into the NBA with any more fundamentally advanced knowledge of the game than the kids who come from college. It's all about individuals and who they are, how hard they work, what they want to become and so on. There are plenty of US developed PGs who struggle to score but can pass or they struggle to pass but can score or they can do both. It's false to assume that just because a guy has ability to score that it must mean that it's all he's been taught and he must lack fundamental understanding of the game.

You definitely are missing the point. No one said anything you just posted.

In his own words he specifically said

In Europe Pg are trained like old nba PG with Fundamentals because Europe is more traditional.

Mitchell is a good player too but knicks try to find a new identity and we have lots of Euros in the team, clearly this team need an euro PG ( I want to say an old NBA PG style and Frank is this guy).

What point am I missing here?

I don't know...both. Nothing you posted was said in either of those posts.

Frank played more like a traditional PG in Europe. Pass first. So his tendencies are that of a pass first PG. He wasn't asked to score much. He can work on his offense. That's what I took from his post. That also explains why he never looks to score and is hesitant to shoot/drive.

[HEZI]

You definitely are missing the point. No one said anything you just posted.

In his own words he specifically said

In Europe Pg are trained like old nba PG with Fundamentals because Europe is more traditional.

Mitchell is a good player too but knicks try to find a new identity and we have lots of Euros in the team, clearly this team need an euro PG ( I want to say an old NBA PG style and Frank is this guy).

What point am I missing here?

I don't know...both. Nothing you posted was said in either of those posts.

Frank played more like a traditional PG in Europe. Pass first. So his tendencies are that of a pass first PG. He wasn't asked to score much. He can work on his offense. That's what I took from his post. That also explains why he never looks to score and is hesitant to shoot/drive.

This is the part that I said was nonsense. It was his lack of ability to score which had him passing first, not his trainers and coaches preaching to him to pass first. The star of his team was AJ Slaughter, a guy who wouldn't even cut it as an NBA 3rd stringer. Frank had a very limited role on offense because of his shaky ball handling, inability to break down a defense, inability to shoot off the dribble consistently and so on. He wasn't even used for pass first reasons, he was used for defensive reasons to pressure the ball handler and make an impact on the defensive end because that was his strongest attribute. Not passing, not play making. He would essentially play the role of a spot up shooter because that was the only time he could score was off drive and kicks from other guards creating shots for him.

This dude won Fiba U18 Championship MVP and had shown completely different ability against inferior talent which were his peers .

How is it that he can do all these iso moves against his peers in the U18 tournament

Watch on YouTube

but then the argument is being made that he can't do it on the NBA level, or even Strasburg for that matter, because of the traditional PG development in Europe?

It's nonsense. Like I said before, the only difference is talent! Simple and plain! The NBA is far more superior in talent and level of competition, it has nothing to do with coaching or the way PGs are developed in Europe.

[Jalen Bluntson]

In his own words he specifically said





What point am I missing here?

I don't know...both. Nothing you posted was said in either of those posts.

Frank played more like a traditional PG in Europe. Pass first. So his tendencies are that of a pass first PG. He wasn't asked to score much. He can work on his offense. That's what I took from his post. That also explains why he never looks to score and is hesitant to shoot/drive.

This is the part that I said was nonsense. It was his lack of ability to score which had him passing first, not his trainers and coaches preaching to him to pass first. The star of his team was AJ Slaughter, a guy who wouldn't even cut it as an NBA 3rd stringer. Frank had a very limited role on offense because of his shaky ball handling, inability to break down a defense, inability to shoot off the dribble consistently and so on. He wasn't even used for pass first reasons, he was used for defensive reasons to pressure the ball handler and make an impact on the defensive end because that was his strongest attribute. Not passing, not play making. He would essentially play the role of a spot up shooter because that was the only time he could score was off drive and kicks from other guards creating shots for him.

This dude won Fiba U18 Championship MVP and had shown completely different ability against inferior talent which were his peers .

How is it that he can do all these iso moves against his peers in the U18 tournament

Watch on YouTube

but then the argument is being made that he can't do it on the NBA level because of the traditional PG development in Europe?

It's nonsense. Like I said before, the only difference is talent! Simple and plain! The NBA is far more superior in talent and level of competition, it has nothing to do with coaching or the way PGs are developed in Europe.

So you spoke to the coaches in Europe? I'm just telling you what it seemed like eagle was trying to say. Seems like he watched him in Europe a lot.

I personally think the kid is just finding where his strengths fit right now and being a defensive pass first guard is exactly what he is. He has to work on his offense. Seeing how he's only 19 and a PG...I'll wait more than 2 months to cast my verdict on the kid.

[HEZI]

I don't know...both. Nothing you posted was said in either of those posts.

Frank played more like a traditional PG in Europe. Pass first. So his tendencies are that of a pass first PG. He wasn't asked to score much. He can work on his offense. That's what I took from his post. That also explains why he never looks to score and is hesitant to shoot/drive.

This is the part that I said was nonsense. It was his lack of ability to score which had him passing first, not his trainers and coaches preaching to him to pass first. The star of his team was AJ Slaughter, a guy who wouldn't even cut it as an NBA 3rd stringer. Frank had a very limited role on offense because of his shaky ball handling, inability to break down a defense, inability to shoot off the dribble consistently and so on. He wasn't even used for pass first reasons, he was used for defensive reasons to pressure the ball handler and make an impact on the defensive end because that was his strongest attribute. Not passing, not play making. He would essentially play the role of a spot up shooter because that was the only time he could score was off drive and kicks from other guards creating shots for him.

This dude won Fiba U18 Championship MVP and had shown completely different ability against inferior talent which were his peers .

How is it that he can do all these iso moves against his peers in the U18 tournament

Watch on YouTube

but then the argument is being made that he can't do it on the NBA level because of the traditional PG development in Europe?

It's nonsense. Like I said before, the only difference is talent! Simple and plain! The NBA is far more superior in talent and level of competition, it has nothing to do with coaching or the way PGs are developed in Europe.

So you spoke to the coaches in Europe? I'm just telling you what it seemed like eagle was trying to say. Seems like he watched him in Europe a lot.

I personally think the kid is just finding where his strengths fit right now and being a defensive pass first guard is exactly what he is. He has to work on his offense. Seeing how he's only 19 and a PG...I'll wait more than 2 months to cast my verdict on the kid.

I don't care how much he watched him in Europe, it doesn't mean anything he was saying was true. All of you guys are waiting for Frank to develop his offensive game so he no longer has to defer to the likes of Kyle O'Quinn and Lance Thomas, but rather actually have the ability to take over games on the offensive end and SCORE FIRST! This is the whole point I'm trying to drive home. His claim was also that the Knicks drafted Frank because they needed a PG and that Mitchell is not that but then he turns around says to be patient and wait for Frank to develop his offense while Frank sits and comes off the bench for Jarrett freakin Jack. This is crazy talk! You mean to tell me that Donovan Mitchell would be coming off the bench for Jarrett Jack right now? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Like I said, people know how I feel about Frank, been saying he needs to play more, been saying he should be starting, been saying we need to be patient, been saying all that. But at this moment in time, there is no way that Frank Ntilikina is better than Donovan Mitchell in any aspect of the game of basketball. Not as a PG, not as a passer, not as a scorer, not as a shooter, not as a slasher, not as a ball handler, not as a finisher. Nothing! He's not a better point guard, whatever definition of PG people have in their mind, Frank is not better than Donovan Mitchell right now!

[Jalen Bluntson]

This is the part that I said was nonsense. It was his lack of ability to score which had him passing first, not his trainers and coaches preaching to him to pass first. The star of his team was AJ Slaughter, a guy who wouldn't even cut it as an NBA 3rd stringer. Frank had a very limited role on offense because of his shaky ball handling, inability to break down a defense, inability to shoot off the dribble consistently and so on. He wasn't even used for pass first reasons, he was used for defensive reasons to pressure the ball handler and make an impact on the defensive end because that was his strongest attribute. Not passing, not play making. He would essentially play the role of a spot up shooter because that was the only time he could score was off drive and kicks from other guards creating shots for him.

This dude won Fiba U18 Championship MVP and had shown completely different ability against inferior talent which were his peers .

How is it that he can do all these iso moves against his peers in the U18 tournament

Watch on YouTube

but then the argument is being made that he can't do it on the NBA level because of the traditional PG development in Europe?

It's nonsense. Like I said before, the only difference is talent! Simple and plain! The NBA is far more superior in talent and level of competition, it has nothing to do with coaching or the way PGs are developed in Europe.

So you spoke to the coaches in Europe? I'm just telling you what it seemed like eagle was trying to say. Seems like he watched him in Europe a lot.

I personally think the kid is just finding where his strengths fit right now and being a defensive pass first guard is exactly what he is. He has to work on his offense. Seeing how he's only 19 and a PG...I'll wait more than 2 months to cast my verdict on the kid.

I don't care how much he watched him in Europe, it doesn't mean anything he was saying was true. All of you guys are waiting for Frank to develop his offensive game so he no longer has to defer to the likes of Kyle O'Quinn and Lance Thomas, but rather actually have the ability to take over games on the offensive end and SCORE FIRST! This is the whole point I'm trying to drive home. His claim was also that the Knicks drafted Frank because they needed a PG and that Mitchell is not that but then he turns around says to be patient and wait for Frank to develop his offense while Frank sits and comes off the bench for Jarrett freakin Jack. This is crazy talk! You mean to tell me that Donovan Mitchell would be coming off the bench for Jarrett Jack right now? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Like I said, people know how I feel about Frank, been saying he needs to play more, been saying he should be starting, been saying we need to be patient, been saying all that. But at this moment in time, there is no way that Frank Ntilikina is better than Donovan Mitchell in any aspect of the game of basketball. Not as a PG, not as a passer, not as a scorer, not as a shooter, not as a slasher, not as a ball handler, not as a finisher. Nothing! He's not a better point guard, whatever definition of PG people have in their mind, Frank is not better than Donovan Mitchell right now!

You really have a hard time comprehending things. You also don't care what anyone says...even people who have seen a lot more of him than you...your opinion is all that matters.

No one even hinted Frank was better than Mitchell. I'm done with this conversation.

[HEZI]

So you spoke to the coaches in Europe? I'm just telling you what it seemed like eagle was trying to say. Seems like he watched him in Europe a lot.

I personally think the kid is just finding where his strengths fit right now and being a defensive pass first guard is exactly what he is. He has to work on his offense. Seeing how he's only 19 and a PG...I'll wait more than 2 months to cast my verdict on the kid.

I don't care how much he watched him in Europe, it doesn't mean anything he was saying was true. All of you guys are waiting for Frank to develop his offensive game so he no longer has to defer to the likes of Kyle O'Quinn and Lance Thomas, but rather actually have the ability to take over games on the offensive end and SCORE FIRST! This is the whole point I'm trying to drive home. His claim was also that the Knicks drafted Frank because they needed a PG and that Mitchell is not that but then he turns around says to be patient and wait for Frank to develop his offense while Frank sits and comes off the bench for Jarrett freakin Jack. This is crazy talk! You mean to tell me that Donovan Mitchell would be coming off the bench for Jarrett Jack right now? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Like I said, people know how I feel about Frank, been saying he needs to play more, been saying he should be starting, been saying we need to be patient, been saying all that. But at this moment in time, there is no way that Frank Ntilikina is better than Donovan Mitchell in any aspect of the game of basketball. Not as a PG, not as a passer, not as a scorer, not as a shooter, not as a slasher, not as a ball handler, not as a finisher. Nothing! He's not a better point guard, whatever definition of PG people have in their mind, Frank is not better than Donovan Mitchell right now!

You really have a hard time comprehending things. You also don't care what anyone says...even people who have seen a lot more of him than you...your opinion is all that matters.

No one even hinted Frank was better than Mitchell. I'm done with this conversation.

Ok cool, you had no place in the convo in the first place

The only one lacking comprehension here is you. You're the one who can't see that the dude tried running with a false narrative. When I questioned him on it, you said that's not what he said, even when I show you proof you say nobody said that. Yeah ok!

[Jalen Bluntson]

I don't care how much he watched him in Europe, it doesn't mean anything he was saying was true. All of you guys are waiting for Frank to develop his offensive game so he no longer has to defer to the likes of Kyle O'Quinn and Lance Thomas, but rather actually have the ability to take over games on the offensive end and SCORE FIRST! This is the whole point I'm trying to drive home. His claim was also that the Knicks drafted Frank because they needed a PG and that Mitchell is not that but then he turns around says to be patient and wait for Frank to develop his offense while Frank sits and comes off the bench for Jarrett freakin Jack. This is crazy talk! You mean to tell me that Donovan Mitchell would be coming off the bench for Jarrett Jack right now? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Like I said, people know how I feel about Frank, been saying he needs to play more, been saying he should be starting, been saying we need to be patient, been saying all that. But at this moment in time, there is no way that Frank Ntilikina is better than Donovan Mitchell in any aspect of the game of basketball. Not as a PG, not as a passer, not as a scorer, not as a shooter, not as a slasher, not as a ball handler, not as a finisher. Nothing! He's not a better point guard, whatever definition of PG people have in their mind, Frank is not better than Donovan Mitchell right now!

You really have a hard time comprehending things. You also don't care what anyone says...even people who have seen a lot more of him than you...your opinion is all that matters.

No one even hinted Frank was better than Mitchell. I'm done with this conversation.

Ok cool, you had no place in the convo in the first place

The only one lacking comprehension here is you. You're the one who can't see that the dude tried running with a false narrative. When I questioned him on it, you said that's not what he said, even when I show you proof you say nobody said that. Yeah ok!

Mhm.

[stuporman]

Even Frank can't defend Jackson.....

[thebuzzardman]

Any second rounders or UFA picked after Dotson that are playing better?

I really need to start hearing about how this pick was f*cked up too. I know there has to be someone.

Dotson was picked because he's a triangle back up SG. Leggo!

[eagle54]

Like I said, people know how I feel about Frank, been saying he needs to play more, been saying he should be starting, been saying we need to be patient, been saying all that. But at this moment in time, there is no way that Frank Ntilikina is better than Donovan Mitchell in any aspect of the game of basketball. Not as a PG, not as a passer, not as a scorer, not as a shooter, not as a slasher, not as a ball handler, not as a finisher. Nothing! He's not a better point guard, whatever definition of PG people have in their mind, Frank is not better than Donovan Mitchell right now!

Really ??

The only nonsence it's you don't want to understand how euros are trained. But it's probably a coincidence if many Europeans are now recruited in NBA... They are really bad trained in Europe but NBA want theirs prospects... it's the nonsence... Probably Kp was better trained in NCAA, Doncic too...

I can try to explain you how they are trained and the mentality in Europe particulary with the pg combo ( I explained that in June before the draft when lots of people here watched frank during the french PO, another example the french Nando De colo trained in PG and now use in SG ) but I lost my time because you don't want to understand. So keep thinking Frank is just a rubio type with lack of talent but maybe look the offensive moves between the two guys to see the difference of potential...

Now let him grow, he's just the second Young guy in the NBA. You could clash him in 2 years if he 's still back up.

[thebuzzardman]

Any second rounders or UFA picked after Dotson that are playing better?

I really need to start hearing about how this pick was f*cked up too. I know there has to be someone.

Dotson was picked because he's a triangle back up SG. Leggo!

Sindarius Thornwell playing 16 mpg on the Clippers!

Phil fell asleep, drafted Dotson!

Clarence Gaines sucks!

[thebuzzardman]

I need some clarity.

When the picks were good, there is a contingent on here that says that's all Clarence Gaines.

Does Gaines suck now for blowing the Frank pick instead of going with DSJr or Mitchell? No, you can't get to say Phil forced the triangle guard because Phil didn't have input on who is drafted, it's all the mighty (or crappy) Gaines.

And let's not forget the picks they just threw in the garbage for the Jazzamatazz guy or how all the UFA's sucked. Where is the awesome scouting there?

[Deeeez Knicks]

it is nearly impossible to get every pick right with the bpa. Luckily, we did that once with KP.

As far as Mitchell, seemed like he was high on our list. He does look legit for sure. Unfortunately we could only pick one player. Frank is just going to take some time to see how good he can be, and what type of player he will be. Still a chance he could be the bpa...or maybe not and still be a very good player.

As long as he becomes a good player in his own way, then not too worried about won was drafted after.

[Jimmit79]

I don't see Mitchell as PG he's another monk, lou williams, and crawford.

[HEZI]

Like I said, people know how I feel about Frank, been saying he needs to play more, been saying he should be starting, been saying we need to be patient, been saying all that. But at this moment in time, there is no way that Frank Ntilikina is better than Donovan Mitchell in any aspect of the game of basketball. Not as a PG, not as a passer, not as a scorer, not as a shooter, not as a slasher, not as a ball handler, not as a finisher. Nothing! He's not a better point guard, whatever definition of PG people have in their mind, Frank is not better than Donovan Mitchell right now!

Really ??

The only nonsence it's you don't want to understand how euros are trained. But it's probably a coincidence if many Europeans are now recruited in NBA... They are really bad trained in Europe but NBA want theirs prospects... it's the nonsence... Probably Kp was better trained in NCAA, Doncic too...

I can try to explain you how they are trained and the mentality in Europe particulary with the pg combo ( I explained that in June before the draft when lots of people here watched frank during the french PO, another example the french Nando De colo trained in PG and now use in SG ) but I lost my time because you don't want to understand. So keep thinking Frank is just a rubio type with lack of talent but maybe look the offensive moves between the two guys to see the difference of potential...

Now let him grow, he's just the second Young guy in the NBA. You could clash him in 2 years if he 's still back up.

Yes really! (where's Are We Ther Yet to tell me nobody said that? ) Anyways, we can put this one to bed.

[duetta]

Can't judge a draft for 3-4 years. NT has a heck of a lot of work to do on offense, but at least we know that he can be an elite defender. Mitchell looks great now - and it's certainly attractive to fantasize about trading down to get him, while picking us additional assets - but the fantasy can look less attractive in a season or two.

Honestly, it's just too early to know.

[stuporman]

Any second rounders or UFA picked after Dotson that are playing better?

I really need to start hearing about how this pick was f*cked up too. I know there has to be someone.

Dotson was picked because he's a triangle back up SG. Leggo!

Phil decided he wanted a second rounder in the trade for Chandler instead of Crowder which he then used on Early passing on Jokic so where was the almighty Knicks European scouting on this one...... does that work for you?

[thebuzzardman]

Any second rounders or UFA picked after Dotson that are playing better?

I really need to start hearing about how this pick was f*cked up too. I know there has to be someone.

Dotson was picked because he's a triangle back up SG. Leggo!

Phil decided he wanted a second rounder in the trade for Chandler instead of Crowder which he then used on Early passing on Jokic so where was the almighty Knicks European scouting on this one...... does that work for you?

My take on the Knick euro scouting is that it's largely based in Spain and doesn't get as far east as where Jokic played. Seriously. I think the guy they have there basically scouts the Spanish leagues but will go to France\Belgium\Germany if there is a strong rumor on someone but doesn't get past that.

[IllmaticHandler]

This thread is trash, and should be locked.