Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 268 in MSG Usman vs Colby 2, Rose vs Zhang 2

[bringbackhoffa]

My boy masvidal.. woooooooh

Damn!

Till, askren.. colby is next. Lets fking go

Masividal will never fight Colby, they are good friends

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Tron Carter]

My boy masvidal.. woooooooh

Damn!

Till, askren.. colby is next. Lets fking go

Masividal will never fight Colby, they are good friends

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

He’s already said if it’s for a belt he doesn’t care

[HarthorneWingo]

Santos beat Jones on one leg. I'd like to see a rematch with a fully healed Santos.

[bringbackhoffa]

Santos beat Jones on one leg. I'd like to see a rematch with a fully healed Santos.

dana said no right away to a rematch, almost as if he is afraid of losing his cash king to a brazillian who cannot speak english

[HarthorneWingo]

Santos beat Jones on one leg. I'd like to see a rematch with a fully healed Santos.

dana said no right away to a rematch, almost as if he is afraid of losing his cash king to a brazillian who cannot speak english

Exactly. He's afraid his boy my get knocked out the next time White is already in damage control over how Jones was literally carried out of the arena because he couldn't even walk due to Santos's kicks to the legs.

[j4remi]

So that was without a doubt the card of the year right? We got a couple of upsets, a lot of highlight finishes, spectacular performances and then arguably the most competitive title fight of Jon Jones' career (I'd give it to Gus but Santos is the first fighter to win one of the judges' scorecards and force a split decision). Lemme go in on a few of these fights fam, let's talk about these performances. Who do yall wanna see these heads fight next (my personal picks in italics)?

Chiesa vs Diego was kinda weak. Just looked like a bigger, younger guy out-grappling an older fighter but unable to put him away. Chiesa is a threat though and fought smart...and made me money too. Anyway, Chiesa was a top ten lightweight and deserves a shot at ranked competition imo. Neil Magny is similarly a grappler with solid but not great striking who has had mixed results. Watching those two roll would be awesome. I don't think Diego should be fighting UFC caliber guys any more. He can beat some tbh, but I'd rather see less opportunities to take serious head trauma by fighting lesser competition.

Jan Blachowicz taught Luke Rockhold the age old lesson not to look past an opponent. Rockhold at 205 was surprisingly plodding, he looked every bit the 20 lbs. heavier that he was. It's also incredible that Luke's not better at takedowns having spent so much time training with DC and Cain. He's aggressive and strong but limited. So Jan kept it standing and Luke's age old issue of not keeping his hands up came back to bite him. Blachowicz is in that sweet spot where there's no one else deserving of Jones and he's got a career full of fighting quality opponents. So while Reyes and Walker build their resumes, he may have lucked into a title shot. Rockhold is another one who might want to retire, too many KO's in a short span is seriously unhealthy.

Masvidal vs Askren was five seconds of magic. There was the trash talk build up, the epic KO and then the aftermath of memes, reaction videos and a clip of Masvidal practicing the flying knee (right down to stepping a couple of feet off center before running in). Look, Ben has bad stand up and ducking for the takedown is par for the course. That Masvidal caught him perfectly is still a feat. The drama now is that people think Masvidal was classless. The punches after the knee might not be necessary but that's on the ref imo. Askren is coming off a win where he took absurd punishment and Masvidal went for the kill. The taunting afterwards is also something I didn't mind, not after the disrespect Askren threw at Gamebred. This is come uppance without the diving into the crowd that soured Khabib's version of silencing a trash talker. Masvidal needs to get the next title shot period. Take advantage of the stardom he's built by being himself and get him to the show. Ben...Ben should fight Demain Maia. I know wrestler vs Maia has been a disaster before, but Ben's style is not like Kamaru and Colby. Plus it's another chance for Maia to figure out how to beat a wrestler (honestly, he almost had Kamaru).

Nunes beating Holm wasn't unexpected by most, but the head kick finish probably was. Honestly I liked Holm's work throughout the first round but you could see the headkick was not something she prepared for when the first kick almost caught her. The second one was just a perfect reaction to Holly pausing with that leg cocked back to fire. For the brief while it lasted, I really enjoyed watching the exchanges between these two and I'd have loved to see it last a bit longer. But whatever, enough Nunes vs strikers. She's dodged any new gen grapplers so far. I'm not half as interested in a fight with GDR as I would be a match up with Ketlen Vieira who is tough as all hell and just finds ways to drag fights to the ground. Then again, if Aspen Ladd gets the upset over GDR she'll probably get the nod and stylistically she's kinda like a younger Cat Zingano (who slammed and stopped Nunes but long before Nunes made so many improvements). I felt Ladd looked green last time out though. Gimme Holm vs McMann. Two vets who've struggled recently and a big style clash.

Then there was Jon Jones vs Thiago Santos and Santos managed to implement a better gameplan than damn near anyone Jones has ever fought. Part of that was his agility, part was his power and the last bit was pure toughness. Santos' ability to throw killer leg kicks kept Jones defending even at his bread and butter range. The other issue for Jon was that he'd throw those low kicks and if Santos could even partially parry or step in, he'd lunge forward with power strikes that put Jones in danger. They didn't land well but they kept Jones from throwing the volume he typically does. He had to be cautious or he'd get countered. Of course then Thiago's knee gives out partially through the second round...and Santos keeps throwing leg kicks with the bum leg. He even tried to plant off that bum knee to mix things up but he'd buckle and get in trouble. Either way, the next 3 and half rounds were Santos trying to both protect his leg and do enough to win and he damn near pulled it off. I had it scored 3-2 for Jones. 2,3,4 for Jones while Santos gets 1,5.

To his credit, Jones was elusive and almost never got hit clean even when he was off balance. He still managed to land more strikes pretty much each round even outside of his comfort zone. But it was odd that he didn't wrestle a guy with no base and who was more or less keeping things even on the feet. Santos has been taken down and submitted before, it's the best option for most guys against that elite striking. Jones left the door open to lose a decision instead and also gave us a lot of footage to consider for weaknesses. Obviously leg kicks will be something he has to prepare for from any future opponent and I wouldn't be surprised if fighters take note that parrying the low kicks opens up counter opportunities. I've been saying for a while that Reyes is an intriguing opponent for Jones base on his skillset and power, but Reyes still needs a little more experience before he's ready. That goes doubly for Walker who's fought less competition. Since they're not ready, process of elimination lands at Jan Blachowicz. Rockhold was almost guaranteed the next shot with a win, why not Blachowicz? I'd like to see Reyes vs Weidman for the next shot in the meantime and that gives Walker time to get another couple of tests under his belt...hopefully someone gives us a whole round to evaluate.

That's enough typing about fights for now. But this weeks UFC Fight Night is surprisingly loaded with talent and solid match-ups so I'll probably punch something in about that later. Plus I might need to vent about just how lame UFC 240's under card is which sucks for Max and Cyborg...but that can come in a couple of weeks.

[HarthorneWingo]

Remi, what's "confirmation bias"? 5:00 mark.

Watch on YouTube

[NY 567]

That card was nuts. Masvidal nearly murdering Askren, Holm and Rockhold getting knocked out, but especially the amazing performance of Thiago Santos. He was messing Jon up from the outside with nasty leg kicks, and when Jon would come inside he'd barrage him with powerful combinations. It was a super close fight but I had Santos winning that 3-2. I'd love to see a rematch, but I think Jon is gonna fight the winner of Cormier vs Stipe at heavyweight next.

[Fury]

That card was nuts. Masvidal nearly murdering Askren, Holm and Rockhold getting knocked out, but especially the amazing performance of Thiago Santos. He was messing Jon up from the outside with nasty leg kicks, and when Jon would come inside he'd barrage him with powerful combinations. It was a super close fight but I had Santos winning that 3-2. I'd love to see a rematch, but I think Jon is gonna fight the winner of Cormier vs Stipe at heavyweight next.

Yep, also because Thiago fought with a torn acl, mcl, pcl and meniscus

[Clyde_Style]

R.I.P. Sweet Pea

Pernell Whitaker died in a car crash. He was only 55

[j4remi]

Sweet Pea is one of my top three favorite defensive fighters of all time. If you're a Floyd Mayweather fan and unfamiliar with this legend, Pernell Whitaker is kinda like the precursor to everything we enjoyed about watching PBF work. He was elusive, dynamic and just fun to watch. R.I.P. to the legend, died way too young.

[Clyde_Style]

Sweet Pea is one of my top three favorite defensive fighters of all time. If you're a Floyd Mayweather fan and unfamiliar with this legend, Pernell Whitaker is kinda like the precursor to everything we enjoyed about watching PBF work. He was elusive, dynamic and just fun to watch. R.I.P. to the legend, died way too young.

Him, Floyd and Willie Pep would be my top 3 for GOAT Defensive Fighters

[j4remi]

Sweet Pea is one of my top three favorite defensive fighters of all time. If you're a Floyd Mayweather fan and unfamiliar with this legend, Pernell Whitaker is kinda like the precursor to everything we enjoyed about watching PBF work. He was elusive, dynamic and just fun to watch. R.I.P. to the legend, died way too young.

Him, Floyd and Willie Pep would be my top 3 for GOAT Defensive Fighters

My favorite three are Floyd, Sweet Pea and Winky Wright. Wright took a long time to even get opportunities against the best but he was a damned joy to watch and B-Hop gets docked for disrespecting Puerto Rico in my book. Pep is one of those names where I've heard a ton of great stories but I didn't get to appreciate his career for myself but that's a great name to list too.

[Clyde_Style]

Sweet Pea is one of my top three favorite defensive fighters of all time. If you're a Floyd Mayweather fan and unfamiliar with this legend, Pernell Whitaker is kinda like the precursor to everything we enjoyed about watching PBF work. He was elusive, dynamic and just fun to watch. R.I.P. to the legend, died way too young.

Him, Floyd and Willie Pep would be my top 3 for GOAT Defensive Fighters

My favorite three are Floyd, Sweet Pea and Winky Wright. Wright took a long time to even get opportunities against the best but he was a damned joy to watch and B-Hop gets docked for disrespecting Puerto Rico in my book. Pep is one of those names where I've heard a ton of great stories but I didn't get to appreciate his career for myself but that's a great name to list too.

You might find some Willie Pep footage online

Winky was very good

Hopkins was a top D fighter for sure

Ali was the greatest when he decided to be that way, but his career was varied and complex and hard to peg to one style. But his ability to slip punches and then pop you was brilliant. That was primarily in the first half of his career before the ban.

[j4remi]

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/7/18/20698928/donald-cerrone-vs-justin-gaethje-set-as-ufc-vancouver-main-event-mma

Gaethje vs Cerrone official...


In terms of fights that everyone wants to see, this has been up there since Cerrone came back to 155. We have the record holder for most Performance bonuses against a guy who has gotten performance bonuses for every single performance win or lose in his UFC career. Gaethje comes forward through EVERYTHING with determination while Cerrone tends peel back plodders with intercepting knees and combination blitzes. Cowboy's technique is incredible and Gaethje is just a force of nature. This is officially the fight I'm most excited for of everything announced in the future so far.

Also, UFC on ESPN 4 is this weekend and they always stack the ESPN cards above a regular fight night. RDA is fighting Leon Edwards who famously beat Cerrone standing and then got hit with a three piece and a sode from Masvidal. Edwards is a really intriguing prospect and RDA is a perfect test.

Also we get Dan Hooker vs James Vick, both guys got into the top ten but then fought killers and lost. I like Hooker to win, never been a Vick fan. Walt Harris' wrestling is up against Oleinik's submissions which makes for a more interesting heavyweight fight. Alexander Hernandez is another lightweight that flirted with top ten but flew to close to the sun by calling out Cowboy and getting smoked. He's fight Francisco Trinaldo who is strong with power striking. The prelims include three former title challengers in different fights. Ray Borg is back against an undefeated guy I don't know much about. Raquel Pennington has a tough but winnable match with Irene Aldana. Then the happiest UFC fighter, Roxanna Modafieri is facing Jennifer Maia in a rematch of a really competitive Invicta Championship match, Maia got the split decision last time.

This is pretty stacked fam and it's free. Also for the people that care about Greg Hardy, he's got another guy off a loss who has similar gas tank issues. I'd expect that one to be trash though because neither guy has proven they have cardio to last past 3 minutes into the first round before they become sloppy, boring HW's. I hate that we keep being forcefed Hardy.

[HarthorneWingo]

Edwards put on a clinic. Much respect for his win over RDA.

Who's next for Leon?

[j4remi]

Well that wasn't half bad. RDA vs Edwards was a lot of fun to watch and will be a fun film session to look at what weaknesses can be exploited (RDA sucks against length). Walt Harris slept Oleinik before the fight got a chance to start, same for Hardy over Juan Adams and also same for Hooker over Vick. The only thing that sucks about a quick KO is I don't have anything to consider when I'm making picks. Trinaldo shoulda got the nod over Hernandez (judges cost me a big parlay with the BS). Arlovski put on a damned clinic over Rothwell who is all power. My picks for next fights:

Edwards vs Covington/Lawler: I'd say this lines everything up perfectly for the next run of WW title fights. Ride the Masvidal hype to a title fight with Usman. Edwards gets the winner of Covington vs Lawler for the next shot. The added bonus is there's an intriguing storyline for any combination of winners that comes out of this. Usman beat Edwards, hates Covington. Masvidal trained with Colby, hates Edwards. Lawler is beloved so any shot he earns is an automatic feel good story.

Harris vs Overeem: It's honestly tough to pick because the HW rankings are weird (Cain's a pro wrestler but ranked 8th) but Reem at 7 makes sense. Harris has been on a nice run and his last losses are a DQ and getting tapped by Werdum. This would be a chance for Harris to make the leap though it's a legit step up. The other option is probably a rematch with Abdurakhimov whose at 10.

Hardy vs Tuivasa: I'm tired of them putting Hardy against guys that aren't even UFC talent. Tuivasa is tough but slow and not the most technical, so Hardy could conceivably still get by on athleticism. Realistically, I think he gets ass kicked which would be fun to see because this is honestly worse than CM Punk imo. They shoulda given Kimbo this cupcake run.

Hooker vs Hernandez: Hernandez is ranked too high, Hooker is unranked (maybe that changes KO'ing number 15 in Vick). The Trinaldo fight was disappointing while Hooker just got right back on track after a loss to the killer Edson Barboza. This would be a chance to set the rankings straight. It also makes this post a bit shorter.

Arlovski vs Oleinik: Probably won't happen because the UFC goes winner vs winner typically; but if Oleinik is still fighting after last night then he shouldn't fight another one punch KO guy. Arlovski's ring craft has reached another level and watching him navigate a submission artist who hasn't gone to decision in over 3 years (the polar opposite of Arlovski who has only seen decisions for the past two years and hasn't won by finish in four years).

Other than that. Prelim quick picks: Pennington vs Kunitskaya would be cool. Borg vs Moreno would be a dreamfight for people who like scrambles and frantic pace. Maia shouldn't be rewarded for missing weight, Maycee Barber in a trap fight is cool.

[Cookies4Life]

Props to those that mentioned the great Pernell Whitaker, probably in my top 5 as far as favorite boxers go.

historically speaking, he's right up there with the greatest defensive fighters ever. Started with the Grandmaster Joe Gans at the turn of last century and than the Ghetto Wizard (from brooklyn) Benny Leonard of the 20's, Willie Pep in the 50's, Cassisus Clay of the 60's, Niccolino Loche, El radar Wilfred Benitez, Pea WHitaker, Bernard Hopkins and than the last elite defensive fighter Floyd Mayweather.

That's a helluva list to be on, he's in my top 20 P4P all time. It's weird, I just rewatched the Chavez Sr-Whitaker robbery just a couple weeks ago to remind myself on how great Sweet pea was. Hell of a counter puncher, creative with his combination punching and some of the best footwork I've ever seen from any fighter in any era. So sad to see him die so young, RIP champ.

[HarthorneWingo]

Bisping ... OMG. Says that Nunes could beat Cejudo in the ring.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/7/21/20702747/ufc-mma-news-interview-michael-bisping-amanda-nunes-henry-cejudo-money-fight-podcast

[HarthorneWingo]

Scenes from the Trinaldo vs. Hernandez fight